Microsoft Announces Windows 7 Retail Prices Ahead of General Availability

[newtekie1]

I agree with this explanation, for the most part. Maybe disagree on some of the details, but yeah, most of this can be explained by both Apple and MS operating on completely different business models. MS could never get away with operating like Apple. BTW, in defense of Apple (because your post does come off as a bit anti-Apple) this transition to 64bit really only excludes PPC based Macs. They are well old enough, I would think. So it's not like they are doing something completely horrible. They've been saying that Leopard is the last PPC release since they first went Intel. People have had plenty of warning to get their affairs in order.

AS far as MS needing 32bit support, I agree. It still needs to have it, at least right now with 7. Tho I think 7 should be the last. MS's market is much larger. It has to support ALL current x86 and x86-64 hardware. Apple can get away with dropping 32bit support because they're OS is written for very specific hardware, MS doesn't have that luxury. I'm glad they stuck with 32bit on 7. At first I thought it was silly, but then I realized how well 7 performs, and realized it would be great on a netbook, unlike Vista.


I also disagree on the PPC support. Trusty me, it is very, VERY good. I still have a G5 PowerMac sitting here to compare to my Core2 iMac. When we got the iMac, almost everything that ran on my G5, still ran on the iMac, including PPC only apps. Adobe, MS Office, Maya, Cubase, Reason, and a bunch of others I can't think of, all worked without a problem. The only exceptions were those that require specific drivers and such. Yeah, they took a little bit of a performance hit, but considering it had to emulate an entirely different architecture, and do it seamlessly, Apple did one hell of a job on it. Even you have to admit it.

Thank you. I'm sorry if it came off a little Anti-Apple, I didn't mean it to. If anything, the only thing I don't like is when people try to compare Apple to Microsoft and say Microsoft is wrong for doing something differently than Apple. People need to understand that they have different business models, and essentially different customer bases. The customer bases might overlap in certian areas, but for the most part they are different. So they have to act differently.

My only problem with Apple dropping PPC support is now a lot of people's Power Macs aren't supported. Those were extremely expensive mahcines, and sold well into 2006. To have no new OS support on a computer that is only 3 years old sucks, IMO. I really feel bad for all the customers of the expensive PPC machine that Apple is screwing over with the latest OS release. IMO, they should have supported PPC for at least 10 years after the Intel switch. As there are some pretty expensive, and pretty powerful PPC machines still in use today. Even if support for PPC was limitted to G5s only, that would be enough IMO, but there should be some PPC support still.

And you are exactly right, Win7 needs 32-bit support because Microsoft still has a huge 32-bit hardware install base. Remember the huge backlash Microsoft had to deal with simply because they raised the memory requirement to 512MB...image how bad it would be if they required a 64-bit processor! Apple can do things like dropping support for huge amounts of hardware still in use today, because it fits their business model, and their customers expect it. However, Microsoft can not.

And Vista runs wonderfully on my Netbook, it actually runs better than XP Home did. The memory management on Vista is so much better than XP, even though it doesn't look like it from the outside(as more memory tends to be taken up at any one time). I can't wait for Win7 though, it should be even better than Vista on netbooks.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

IF you buy VISTA OEM right now you get a W7 upgrade coupon for W7 for VISTA hp,business & ultimate
IF you Buy W7 hp or ultimate or business RETAIL you get THE FAMILY PACK LICENSE 3 PC'S FOR EACH COPY FOR THE SAME HOUSE

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

My only problem with Apple dropping PPC support is now a lot of people's Power Macs aren't supported. Those were extremely expensive mahcines, and sold well into 2006. To have no new OS support on a computer that is only 3 years old sucks, IMO. I really feel bad for all the customers of the expensive PPC machine that Apple is screwing over with the latest OS release. IMO, they should have supported PPC for at least 10 years after the Intel switch. As there are some pretty expensive, and pretty powerful PPC machines still in use today. Even if support for PPC was limitted to G5s only, that would be enough IMO, but there should be some PPC support still.

I had a G3. I had a G4 powerbook Ti, and a Powerbook G4 AL.

I also know an admin of many PPC's, including a few G5's in his inventory.

Leopard is fine. Get over it?

I know I certainly don't care about dropping support, nor have I met a single mac user that does. It's called technology. It gets outdated. It's not like those PPC systems are useless. Most apps on them run fine, and will forever you just can't have the latest and greatest CS4, boo hoo. You don't have any ability to take advantage of the hardware acceleration and such being added in the programs anyways, on a PPC.

Sometimes you just have to give up old technology. Often times, its for the better. Windows users need to learn this. ... -.- Look at how long the Floppy took to kill off. 32 bit is a parasite that will -never- die, without a little force.

 

[Wile E]

I had a G3. I had a G4 powerbook Ti, and a Powerbook G4 AL.

I also know an admin of many PPC's, including a few G5's in his inventory.

Leopard is fine. Get over it?

I know I certainly don't care about dropping support, nor have I met a single mac user that does. It's called technology. It gets outdated. It's not like those PPC systems are useless. Most apps on them run fine, and will forever you just can't have the latest and greatest CS4, boo hoo. You don't have any ability to take advantage of the hardware acceleration and such being added in the programs anyways, on a PPC.

Sometimes you just have to give up old technology. Often times, its for the better. Windows users need to learn this. ... -.- Look at how long the Floppy took to kill off. 32 bit is a parasite that will -never- die, without a little force.

Dippy, you can't kill 32bit when 32bit cpus are still being designed and released.

 

[El Fiendo]

IF you buy VISTA OEM right now you get a W7 upgrade coupon for W7 for VISTA hp,business & ultimate
IF you Buy W7 hp or ultimate or business RETAIL you get THE FAMILY PACK LICENSE 3 PC'S FOR EACH COPY FOR THE SAME HOUSE

Is this 100% true? You're saying if I buy Vista OEM I can get an upgrade coupon for W7 that can be used to get a retail version of Ultimate or Business allowing me 3 PCs for one purchase? I have 3 PCs, 1 running Vista and 2 that are / will be running the Windows 7 RC 7100. Will this deal continue past the release date of Win7? I wasn't going to buy Windows 7 right away, I was going to wait until my RCs were nearing their end of use date. By then I'll already be 6-7 months into the release of Windows 7. If I wait until then, will I lose out on the free upgrade coupon?

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Dippy, you can't kill 32bit when 32bit cpus are still being designed and released.

I love how true, yet rediculus this statement is.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Is this 100% true? You're saying if I buy Vista OEM I can get an upgrade coupon for W7 that can be used to get a retail version of Ultimate or Business allowing me 3 PCs for one purchase? I have 3 PCs, 1 running Vista and 2 that are / will be running the Windows 7 RC 7100. Will this deal continue past the release date of Win7? I wasn't going to buy Windows 7 right away, I was going to wait until my RCs were nearing their end of use date. By then I'll already be 6-7 months into the release of Windows 7. If I wait until then, will I lose out on the free upgrade coupon?

not quite
oem=oem
retail=retail
If you buy oem now you get to upgrade oem
Edit: to be honest i'm not seeing it for the retail version's i can only find it for the oem's
Edit: but the retail version's of W7 ultimate will still have the family license
Edit:according to zdnet W7 home premium may also have the family license but is not confirmed and business may not be offered with family license
edit:http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1145&tag=nl.e550

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I love how true, yet rediculus this statement is.

i know exactly what you mean......
Seriously why continue to make new 32bit software for old technology....And i don't care if the Atom is a new proc or not it's still old technology just made smaller and more efficient... really nothing new about..so why not just re-lable the old crap for it...

 

[Wile E]

I love how true, yet rediculus this statement is.

How is it ridiculous Dippy? Apple has a vested interest in hardware, therefore they only need to support 64bit on Snow Leopard so they can push new sales of their systems to those that still have PPC macs, but want Snow Leopard. Apple is known for forced hardware upgrading (although this time it's not artificial).

MS has no vested interest in hardware, so there is no benefit to them dropping 32bit support. If they drop 32 bit support, they lose sales to an entire market segment. Dropping 32bit support actually LOSES them money, as they don't sale hardware to make up the losses.

 

[newtekie1]

I had a G3. I had a G4 powerbook Ti, and a Powerbook G4 AL.

I also know an admin of many PPC's, including a few G5's in his inventory.

Leopard is fine. Get over it?

If Leopard was fine, there wouldn't be a need for new releases to replace it.

I know I certainly don't care about dropping support, nor have I met a single mac user that does. It's called technology. It gets outdated. It's not like those PPC systems are useless. Most apps on them run fine, and will forever you just can't have the latest and greatest CS4, boo hoo. You don't have any ability to take advantage of the hardware acceleration and such being added in the programs anyways, on a PPC.

This statement is laughable, and again I think at this point you are trying your hardest to come off as a troll.

I certainly don't care that you don't care. I also doubt you spent $10,000 on a Power Mac either...I bet those people care. I also bet those are the same people that would find not being able to use CS4 a problem. The professionals that I've talked to that use this stuff on a daily basis are all pretty annoyed...

But again, your statement also rings back to the different customer bases that Apple and Microsoft have to deal with. On the consumer level, Apple has molded their customers to say exactly what you have. They have molded them to be perfectly accepting of their perfectly capable hardware being made obsolete by Apple. They are used to simply throwing hardware away, and buying new. After all, that is one of the major ways Apple makes money. It is a hardware company just as much as it is a software company. So getting people to buy new hardware along with the new OS is in their best interest.

Sometimes you just have to give up old technology. Often times, its for the better. Windows users need to learn this. ... -.- Look at how long the Floppy took to kill off. 32 bit is a parasite that will -never- die, without a little force.

Unfortunately, that isn't Microsoft's call. They don't make the hardware, so they have to continue 32-bit support. Windows users aren't used to being forced into hardware upgrades, and they certainly don't do so willingly. Especially when the hardware is only a few years old.

To an extent, I agree though, Windows users need to learn to give up and move on at some point. Pentium IIIs still shouldn't be in use, yet people still bring them into my shop. And they will often times spend more moeny for me to fix them, then it would cost to just go out and buy a new machine...

With Apples drop of support of PPC, at least the PPC computers were out of production for some time before they did it. What you are asking Microsoft to do is simply stop support for hardware that is still being produced today. That means computer that are still being sold today, computers still sitting on the shelves in stores, would not support the latest OS. That would idiotic. The hardware/processor manufactures need to make this transition before Microsoft does. Intel and AMD are the ones that you should be putting the blame on, not Microsoft.

There needs to be a point where old hardware simply isn't support anymore, I certainly can agree with that. However, I think 3 years is far too short. 5 years would be a little more realistic to me. Hopefully, we are nearing the end of 32-bit processor production, and we start to see Intel and AMD move to 64-bit only production. And hopefully, this means that by the time the next version of Windows after 7 is released, it will require 64-bit.

 

[Wile E]

In other words, Intel and VIA need to make Atom and Nano both 64bit. (Bet that would speed them up quite a bit too.)

And I think if I bought a PowerMac Quad I would be a bit upset if it was already being made obsolete. I think Apple should've waited one more OS release to drop PPC support. Although, in their defense, at least they did warn everybody this was coming.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

And I think if I bought a PowerMac Quad I would be a bit upset if it was already being made obsolete. I think Apple should've waited one more OS release to drop PPC support. Although, in their defense, at least they did warn everybody this was coming.

So why is noone upset about AMD not supporting 754 and 939 anymore?

My 939 A64 is much newer than a G5, yet i don't hear you guys crying.

If anything, PC's are the king at abandoning old hardware. Difference is, Microsoft wastes their time catering to people that aren't willing to upgrade.

Also, chances are if you rely on CS4 work, you aren't using a $10,000 G5 from 5 years ago. You have a c2d or better. If you spent $10,000 on a G5 right before intels launched... well, frankly you're a dumbass. GTFO my internets.

How is it ridiculous Dippy?

it's rediculus because hardware vendors are damn well aware of the incoming 64 bit transition. Microsoft is making the right call supporting 32 bit on atoms, obviously.

I called it rediculus, because the hardware is intentionally crippled, while 64 bit designs are continuing to take over the market. Its pretty obvious.

Yet they're after quick cash.

 

[Wile E]

So why is noone upset about AMD not supporting 754 and 939 anymore?

My 939 A64 is much newer than a G5, yet i don't hear you guys crying.

If anything, PC's are the king at abandoning old hardware. Difference is, Microsoft wastes their time catering to people that aren't willing to upgrade.

Also, chances are if you rely on CS4 work, you aren't using a $10,000 G5 from 5 years ago. You have a c2d or better. If you spent $10,000 on a G5 right before intels launched... well, frankly you're a dumbass. GTFO my internets.

Broken analogy. 754 and 939 still support the newest non-apple oses, Win 7 included.

And those $10000 G5's aren't 5 years old. G5's were sold until mid-2006. The big model was the PowerMac Quad.

You seem to forget I own Apple products, Dippy. I like them. I have a Core 2 iMac 20", 1.6GHz PowerMac G5 and my iPhone 3G. The difference between you and I is, I'm not a blind follower. I recognize a company's flaws when I see them.

Not everything Apple does is right or golden. As another example of where they force hardware upgrades for no good reason, why doesn't iPhone 2G get MMS support with OS 3.0? It's perfectly capable of it.

Or how about when they dropped G3 support in Panther and Tiger, yet the hackers showed that those G3 notebooks they sold until the end of '03 were perfectly capable of running both, just as well as they ran 10.2. Both OSes even still had the needed kexts in them for the G3 machines. Apple blocked them with a hardware check. A simple prom flash enabled both 10.3 and 10.4 to install.

it's rediculus because hardware vendors are damn well aware of the incoming 64 bit transition. Microsoft is making the right call supporting 32 bit on atoms, obviously.

I called it rediculus, because the hardware is intentionally crippled, while 64 bit designs are continuing to take over the market. Its pretty obvious.

Yet they're after quick cash.

But you are bitching about it like it's MS's fault, but it's not. Bitch at Intel and Via for making these 32bit chips.

MS's hand is forced in that area.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

But you are bitching about it like it's MS's fault, but it's not. Bitch at Intel and Via for making these 32bit chips.

MS's hand is forced in that area.

If microsoft had the balls to make Windows 7 a 64 bit only OS, and leave Vista for 32 bit support, hardware guys would probably quickly change their tune. They wanna sell it with the LATEST AND GREATEST!

 

[Wile E]

If microsoft had the balls to make Windows 7 a 64 bit only OS, and leave Vista for 32 bit support, hardware guys would probably quickly change their tune. They wanna sell it with the LATEST AND GREATEST!

How is it about balls? They would lose sales if they did that. It makes no financial sense for them to discontinue 32bit development. It's purely in the hands of the hardware devs.

 

[DaveK]

This is most likely going to be $1 = €1 like most things, it's $199 in the US and in Ireland it will probably be €199 which is $275 and so on, pffft.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

How is it about balls? They would lose sales if they did that. It makes no financial sense for them to discontinue 32bit development. It's purely in the hands of the hardware devs.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Microsoft wants everyone to buy Vista all over again.


Except this time, with EXTRA BLING!

 

[Wile E]

Oh yeah, I forgot, Microsoft wants everyone to buy Vista all over again.


Except this time, with EXTRA BLING!

And Apple does the same, so your point is moot.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

And Apple does the same, so your point is moot.

Yeah, snow leopard is pure bling. That is why its got almost no graphical UI changes.

And snow leopard is $200.

Snow leopard actually has a legit reason for being a seperate release. It doesn't support PPC and strips PPC code out of the OS. 2 Leopard branches would be rediculus.

 

[newtekie1]

Yeah, snow leopard is pure bling. That is why its got almost no graphical UI changes.

And snow leopard is $200.

Snow leopard actually has a legit reason for being a seperate release. It doesn't support PPC and strips PPC code out of the OS. 2 Leopard branches would be rediculus.

Win7 has "almost no graphical UI changes" from what I've seen also. Most of the changes are backend changes, just like in Snow Leopard.

I assume you mean "Snow Leopard isn't $200". To which I respond, neither is Win7. Home Premium should be available for under $100.

And stripping support for hardware that is still very capable doesn't seem like a very legit reason to release an OS to me. It seems more like they are just trying to get people to re-buy hardware...

So by your accounts, Apple is just trying to get people to re-buy hardware to run a re-release of Leopard. While Microsoft is just trying to get us to re-buy Vista. Which is better?

You seem to forget I own Apple products, Dippy. I like them. I have a Core 2 iMac 20", 1.6GHz PowerMac G5 and my iPhone 3G. The difference between you and I is, I'm not a blind follower. I recognize a company's flaws when I see them.

This.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

And stripping support for hardware that is still very capable doesn't seem like a very legit reason to release an OS to me. It seems more like they are just trying to get people to re-buy hardware...

Developing PPC code is very profitable. For both developers and users.

PowerPC will also benefit greatly from a x86-64 OS.
PowerPC will also get benefit out of Grand Centeral in Snow leopard.
PowerPC Will also benefit greatly out of openCL for GPU's it doesn't have.
PowerPC Will benefit from the re-written Airport code for new airport cards not included in PowerPC machines.
PowerPC will benefit from HFS+ read and write support from bootcamp drivers.
PowerPC will benefit from Hardware Multitouch gestures that aren't physically in the trackpads.
PowerPC will benefit from Quicktime X for HD video the CPU's can't handle.

You know, you're right. I see exactly why you want Snow leopard to keep it's powerPC code.

PowerPC would reap some pretty nice benefits and totally be capable of making use of your $30 upgrade.

/sarcasm

Snow Leopard wouldn't even be useful for a PowerPC machine. 90% of the improvements are hardware related.

OS X is not directly an OS like windows, its role is much more similar to what firmware does.

 

[newtekie1]

Developing PPC code is very profitable. For both developers and users.

PowerPC will also benefit greatly from a x86-64 OS.
PowerPC will also get benefit out of Grand Centeral in Snow leopard.
PowerPC Will also benefit greatly out of openCL for GPU's it doesn't have.
PowerPC Will benefit from the re-written Airport code for new airport cards not included in PowerPC machines.
PowerPC will benefit from HFS+ read and write support from bootcamp drivers.
PowerPC will benefit from Hardware Multitouch gestures that aren't physically in the trackpads.
PowerPC will benefit from Quicktime X for HD video the CPU's can't handle.

You know, you're right. I see exactly why you want Snow leopard to keep it's powerPC code.

PowerPC would reap some pretty nice benefits and totally be capable of making use of your $30 upgrade.

/sarcasm

Snow Leopard wouldn't even be useful for a PowerPC machine. 90% of the improvements are hardware related.

OS X is not directly an OS like windows, its role is much more similar to what firmware does.

Most of those things don't warrant a new OS in the fist place, all of those things should be released as patches, not a complete new OS. But then Apple couldn't strip the PPC code out, and force people to buy more hardware...

And Snow Leopard isn't even close to a firmware, you are totally full of shit on that one.

And you really don't think G5's can't handle HD Video?

Wow...

I'm done with you, you don't have a clue.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Geeese!! a little anger here
Look at like this....
Apple is garbage! for the gamer and the general public but good for professional- and i do get the firmware comment, think wireless router gui just beefed up
Microsoft is re-lableing Vista and calling it Windows 7, they have too! nobody wants to hear Vista is a good operating system(Thanks Apple)
All W7 is, Is vista done right.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Apple is garbage! for the gamer

**Fixed.

They're actually absolutely perfect for most actual "consumers".

And even then, that's making macs look they they don't have any games...

But I see a nifty half life 2 icon in my dock..

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Most of those things don't warrant a new OS in the fist place, all of those things should be released as patches, not a complete new OS.

And what does Windows 7 bring over Windows XP and vista?

Stability? performance? Minor features?

Didn't you just say these should be released as patches?

And Snow Leopard isn't even close to a firmware, you are totally full of shit on that one.

Its called an analogy.

THESE BE COMPLEX TERMS YO.

It's obvious snow leopard isn't "firmware", that would a moronic statement. I said fills the ROLE of firmware(For an end user). Users buy a "computer". They "use this computer" much like an mp3 player or phone. They don't understand the "OS" thing, and they don't really give a rats ass if it's GOOGLE OS 3 BILLION, or GENERIC CHINA MADE OS 1.1.

They want to DO something on it and it needs to WORK.

Instead, windows users get to worry about ad-ware, spyware, anti-virus, drivers, and everything else... Most people don't even know what ad-aware does.

But go ahead, buy your windows 7. I'm happy with my properly functioning OS. I enjoy not running anti-virus, or scanning for spyware. Maybe someday Microsoft'll get the message. It's probably gonna take google to bite them in the rear to do it, with Google OS.