HD5770 (Sapphire Vapor-X 1GB) - so disappointing - Part 2

[Peter_Palm]

Hi,

just to complete my tests:
I've changed my card again to a GTS250 (MSI N250GTS Twin Frozr 1G), which is oc'ed by factory (GPU driven with 760MHz instead of 738MHz).
My HD5770 was also overclocked by factory to 860 MHZ (which is a very small amount).

Both was oc'ed manually to a higher value:
The HD5770 to 900MHz GPU frequency,
The GTS250 to 770MHz GPU frequency (this is not the highest amount, I was able to get it up to 780MHz without errors, but I want to have a stable system)

Here is the 3DMark 2006 result of both:
http://www.z80.eu/images/GTS250vsHD5770.jpg

It's only a difference of ~500 points, but also a difference of $50 (the GTS250 is cheaper).
Judge for yourself.

P.S.: And no more problems with DualView (2 monitor) flicker, and no problems anymore with Star Wars Battlefront II ...

 

[aCid888*]

Try real games or Vantage and not some 4 year old benchmark?

 

[Peter_Palm]

Try real games or Vantage and not some 4 year old benchmark?

Most of the games are still DirectX 9.0 title. So why using 3DMark Vantage ?
Yes, I tried already some real games (Far Cry 2 for example, still the same picture, the GTS250 is not far away from the HD5770, but was cheaper and the drivers more stable...).
I am more satisfied with the GTS250 now than with the HD5770 also because the GTS250 was cheaper but not so much slower.
Ok, I guess the HD5770 has more features (but only 128 Bit memory bus), but I will not use these features (3 monitors ? No. DX11 ? No.). But I want to use PhysX... Badaboom media converter for example is really nice because you can convert movies much faster.

 

[DirectorC]

Stick with nVidia, nuff said.

 

[aCid888*]

Most of the games are still DirectX 9.0 title. So why using 3DMark Vantage ?
Yes, I tried already some real games (Far Cry 2 for example, still the same picture, the GTS250 is not far away from the HD5770, but was cheaper and the drivers more stable...).
I am more satisfied with the GTS250 now than with the HD5770 also because the GTS250 was cheaper but not so much slower.
Ok, I guess the HD5770 has more features (but only 128 Bit memory bus), but I will not use these features (3 monitors ? No. DX11 ? No.). But I want to use PhysX... Badaboom media converter for example is really nice because you can convert movies much faster.

If your not happy with your card why did you buy it in the first place? You seem to forget that the 5770 is mid-range and the 9800GTX+ (aka GTS250) is high-end of yesteryear.......that means the GTS is still a formidable card today.

I can assure you, the 5770 is faster than the GTS250 in most games out there today and it will be shown in a benchmark thats newer such as Vantage.


@Director: Go back under your rock, troll.

 

[Peter_Palm]

If your not happy with your card why did you buy it in the first place?

Because of so many articles about the card, because of many published benchmarks (ok, not with my own CPU, but...) it seemed to be the best buy I can do in my situation (my PSU is not powerful enough for a two 6-pin-vga-card with more than 150W power consumption, and the 5770 is not consuming too much power).
Ok, it can be that in other system configurations with a much faster CPU the HD5770 scales a lot better, but most of the users (like me) do not want to change all components at once.

But I forgot: Merry christmas and a happy new year !

 

[LagunaX]

So what did you do with your 5770?

 

[Peter_Palm]

So what did you do with your 5770?

I gave it back to the dealer (that's possible by law here in germany).

 

[LagunaX]

Oh ok. Too bad you couldn't step up to a 5850.
That is where AMD/ATI starts kicking ass...

 

[aCid888*]

Because of so many articles about the card, because of many published benchmarks (ok, not with my own CPU, but...) it seemed to be the best buy I can do in my situation (my PSU is not powerful enough for a two 6-pin-vga-card with more than 150W power consumption, and the 5770 is not consuming too much power).
Ok, it can be that in other system configurations with a much faster CPU the HD5770 scales a lot better, but most of the users (like me) do not want to change all components at once.

But I forgot: Merry christmas and a happy new year !

You should of got a new PSU instead of a new card....then you wouldnt have to worry about running something too powerful.

 

[Peter_Palm]

Oh ok. Too bad you couldn't step up to a 5850.
That is where AMD/ATI starts kicking ass...

Yes. I believe the 58xx series is a lot better, but much more expensive also.
I guess there will be a 5830 card in a few month, because the 57xx series is somewhat too limited.

 

[DirectorC]

I don't know how much a 4890 runs over there compared to a GTS250, but that is the card that is cheap/powerful from AMD. Kicks a GTS250's ass (even a GTX260's ass), and over here it costs less than a GTX275 (the similar performer), so it's the best price/performance card available. Like I said in the other thread, the 5770 is for people who don't need a lot of power but want to have the latest tech. It is a mid level card.

 

[jamesrt2004]

I don't know how much a 4890 runs over there compared to a GTS250, but that is the card that is cheap/powerful from AMD. Kicks a GTS250's ass (even a GTX260's ass), and over here it costs less than a GTX275 (the similar performer), so it's the best price/performance card available. Like I said in the other thread, the 5770 is for people who don't need a lot of power but want to have the latest tech. It is a mid level card.

5770 is pretty much 4890 speeds though...

 

[Rapidfire48]

I have a Saphire 5770 and I have no issues with any games or running dual monitors. I am also using a much more powerful PSU than you are. You have a 450 watt psu and that is there bare minimum you can have to run the card and I am sure it does not help it any. When you looked at the reviews I highly doubt any of them were using a 450 watt PSU . I would make sure your system is properly equipped to run the card the right way before you bash it.

 

[DirectorC]

5770 is pretty much 4890 speeds though...

I take it you haven't seen the benchmarks where the 5770 runs almost as good as 4870 and only sometimes beats a GTX260.

 

[ucanmandaa]

At your res 1440x900 you are cpu bound, even if you had a 5970 you would not feel much difference. Thats why so little differences between 3dmark scores. i get 15xxx with a single 4850 1gb (670core 2000m) in 3dmark just because i have my cpu @ 3.47ghz. If you want to upgrade your path should be like this:

i a new quality psu like aCid888* suggested.
ii a higher res screen (1680x1050 or higher)
iii lastly a more powerful gfx card. 5770 or higher

rest of your systems should be fine for you at least 1 more year (if you overclock 3-3.2 ghz ,maybe even more)

 

[Jstn7477]

You seem to be CPU bound as far as 3DMark06 goes. My Phenom II X4 955BE @ 3.4 with a 9800 GT @ 675/1650/950 gets roughly 14,400. Oh, and he can't run Vantage because he's using XP, which also means that he completely misses out on DX10 and 11 along with other performance tweaks that Windows 7 has.

 

[Peter_Palm]

[...] Oh, and he can't run Vantage because he's using XP, which also means that he completely misses out on DX10 and 11 along with other performance tweaks that Windows 7 has.

That's a different story. Btw I believe Microsoft's marketing dept. was successful ;-)
For me, I have dual boot also, and I have small speed disadvantages with Windows 7 compared to Windows XP SP3, and not vice versa (and with speed disadvantages I want to mention runtime speed of games, not booting time - with 32bit not with 64bit, I have only 4G RAM). And as I already stated here, even DX10 for games is not widely supported yet.

 

[Jstn7477]

Well, okay, if you say so. But, DX11 seems very promising. Just look at Dirt 2 or the Heaven benchmark and the difference between them is quite noticeable. Plus, Windows XP is over 8 years old anyway.

I tried Windows XP (x64) on my Phenom II X4 and performance was pretty choppy. Windows 7 has better support for multicore processors, as Windows XP doesn't seem to work well with more than 2 cores. Windows 7 x64 simply flies on my machine. Plus, I enjoy the new GUI over the old 2D, unbuffered GUIs of yester-decade. Not sure why people complain so much about the GUI (unrelated to this topic, though.)

 

[DirectorC]

There's virtually no modern systems with the adequate operating hardware (such as yours) that should have any speed disadvantage whatsoever Windows 7 over XP. Windows 7 destroys everything. It's the best Windows MS ever made. No marketing here, I've been hating Windows since 3.1 was the standard.

 

[Zubasa]

Most of the games are still DirectX 9.0 title. So why using 3DMark Vantage ?
Yes, I tried already some real games (Far Cry 2 for example, still the same picture, the GTS250 is not far away from the HD5770, but was cheaper and the drivers more stable...).
I am more satisfied with the GTS250 now than with the HD5770 also because the GTS250 was cheaper but not so much slower.
Ok, I guess the HD5770 has more features (but only 128 Bit memory bus), but I will not use these features (3 monitors ? No. DX11 ? No.). But I want to use PhysX... Badaboom media converter for example is really nice because you can convert movies much faster.

It has more to do of putting enough load on the GPU.
3Dmark06 is simply too easy on modern GPUs that you don't notice too much difference. :shadedshu
3Dmark06 is also the first 3Dmark that takes the CPU into account, so it rates the whole system and not just the card.

About the 5770 having a 128-bit bus, that doesn't is not a problem at all.
The 5770 with its high speed GDDR5 memory is still faster than the GTS 250 with 256-bit GDDR3 memory.

 

[Kei]

Wasn't the other thread closed for a reason...for sure this one will end up the same way pretty soon if it turns out to be just bickering for nothing.

As a final effort to directly show what we're talking about when we say it wasn't the 5770 that was holding your scores back, here is a quick example of 3DMark06's dependancy on cpu speed.

I see your procesor is just shy of 2.7Ghz (I remember I almost bought a Q6700, nice processor btw) so I knocked my cpu speed back to that level and ran a test with everything at stock speeds including the gpu. My score is a bit over your score, but I have a slightly higher Mhz and a better cpu.

I ran the test again at my stock speed of 3.2Ghz and you will see the difference in score. 3DMark06 just loves cpu speed more than anything it seems which is why your score didn't get some super 5000 point jump. Like many others said, it would be the same if you got a 5800 series card because the cpu is holding things back is all. The 250 is not really cpu bound in this case which is why it appears to give a more pleasing result is all. Notice the gpu scores when the processor is running at 2.7Ghz are significantly lower than when at 3.2Ghz, a direct result of the far lower cpu score.

The 5770 when overclocked like you were running is the 4890 level card at this generation especially if you clock it up nice and high (1000Mhz core). All the shiny new cards take A LOT of cpu in order to get their best. Many reviews are finally starting to say that as well though it's been true for many years now.

Enjoy the card, glad it works for you and you got your money back. I figured running the test at higher cpu speeds is slightly pointless right now as you can see what happens from higher cpu speeds. I also attatched my highest run with the card so far (1025Mhz core 1440Mhz memory) though I'm not finished tweaking it just yet.

Kei

 

[DirectorC]

I guess erocker thought the bickering was getting out of control on the other thread.

And THIS one was dead for THREE HOURS til ya bumped it up... and you didn't post anything useful. Way to go Kei!

Anyway, bottom line is 5770 is a mid range card. If you read the reviews you will see that it runs with today's mid range cards and if you're going from a mid range card to a 5770 on mid range hardware/resolutions you will not see performance increases. You will probably see some increases at =>1920x1080, however, due to 1GB of memory standard vs 512 on the old mid range cards.

The end.

 

[Kei]

I guess erocker thought the bickering was getting out of control on the other thread.

And THIS one was dead for THREE HOURS til ya bumped it up... and you didn't post anything useful. Way to go Kei!

Shhh...I wasn't done, just getting a few things in order first. First post edited

Kei

 

[erocker]

Ok, I guess the HD5770 has more features (but only 128 Bit memory bus), but I will not use these features (3 monitors ? No. DX11 ? No.). But I want to use PhysX... Badaboom media converter for example is really nice because you can convert movies much faster.

Well, I guess you bought the wrong card then. Glad you got your money back, we all make bad purchacing decisions and don't always get a refund.