HD 5870 Discussion thread.

[20mmrain]

I bet he just liked how it sounds .
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Hey man I hate how that sounds..... Like I said it was just thought running threw my head. I also said in the original post that it's just talking about as far as performance goes. All else aside. Meaning some specs and rumors say that Femi could very well be 36% more powerful.
And since the 2900XT was the biggest failure I could relate too in recent memory is why I compared the two.

Well fine I will rename the thread too 5870 = too piece of crap would that make you happier? LOL

 

[erocker]

Well fine I will rename the thread too 5870 = too piece of crap ?

But why the heck would you say that? It's not makeing sense man! The 5870 is the best damn video card on the market right now, this is all backwards.

*I'll just merge this with the "below expectations" thread.

 

[3dsage]

But why the heck would you say that? It's not makeing sense man! The 5870 is the best damn video card on the market right now, this is all backwards.

*I'll just merge this with the "below expectations" thread.

 

[Benetanegia]

*I'll just merge this with the "below expectations" thread.

Godammit!! That should be posted on the first post that was moved to the new location. And the OP is missing, I was completely lost thinking "what the hell are these guys talking about now, HD2900Xt WTH?"

I read back to page 19 trying to figure it out!!

 

[erocker]

Godammit!! That should be posted on the first post that was moved to the new location. And the OP is missing, I was completely lost thinking "what the hell are these guys talking about now, HD2900Xt WTH?"

I read back to page 19 trying to figure it out!!

The poster deleted their own message.

 

[Bo_Fox]

2900XT design was actually finished BEFORE G80, however, a bad circuit made alot of early runs unstable, and the size of the memorycontroller + TSMC's leaky process made it one hot bastid, limiting clocks.

5870 is affected again by TSMC's process, but there is nothing wrong with the design, so no, it is NOT the next 2900XT.

Yeah, that was on 80nm, and the X1900XTX was already one hot bastid!!! It could actually eat nearly just as much power as an 8800GTX (within a few watts)--a chip much bigger than the X1900XTX. The HD2900XT was an even bigger and more power-hungry chip than the X1900XTX, and it was a bit difficult doing 512-bit bus on 80nm (along with the 1024-bit ringbus that ate more power).

It should not take up as much space or power consumption to implement a 512-bit bus on a 40nm die.

I don't get the correlation whatsoever. 2900xt came out after G80 and it was a flop. If anything Fermi could possibly be the "New 2900XT." Unless of course it performs as great as Nvidia says, just like ATi said the R600 was going to be amazing.

Nobody here is saying that the 5870/5850 sucks. I just wanted to see a 5870 do better with more bandwidth and an option to disable trilinear optimizations, since a 4890 apparently has better IQ even if it can only do about 2x - 4x AF effective at exact 45-degree angles.

Damn, are you serious about the GT300 being a flop like the HD2900XT, Erocker? I'm really expecting the GF100 (or GT300) to beat the 5870 by at least 10-35%. NV was also months late with their GT200 on 65nm, yet still managed to stay 20% ahead of the 4870 on 55nm, released 2 weeks later. The 5870 is a great GPU that comes really close to a 4870X2 and GTX 295, and I would rather buy a 5870 than a GTX 295, trust me, but it only beats a GTX 285 by exactly 25% according to TPU, which is far "below expectations" as the title of the thread said.

(EDIT: Perhaps you are right that it will be further delayed, so maybe that's why NV is not really saying very much about the Fermi yet.. but there are a few rumors now, right?)

 

[Bo_Fox]

turning off cat AI disables crossfire. for many users, it simply cant be turned off.

game specific fixes + game specific "optimizations" are bundled together with the one option, sadly.

Let's all at ATI for this! On ATI cards for the past 3 years, we had the "High Quality AF" option, but there's no longer such an option for HD5k series cards. All HD5k series use this perfectly circular AF by default, but with severe brilinear "optimization".

If we look back a few years ago, during the days of the G70, many people were so pissed off at Nvidia for implementing worse trilinear optimizations than on the 6800 Ultra. NV tried to get away with it for a while, and did so for like 6-9 months while being on the top of the hill with zero competition from ATI. Then before the X1800XT was released, NV finally gave us an option to disable BOTH anisotropic sample optimizations and trilinear optimizations in the CP.

 

[Bo_Fox]

Hey Wolf,

After you did us so much favor by benching your 5870 with different memory clocks, I'd like to ask you for a favor.. do you mind checking your IQ to see if there are trilinear optimizations in use?

Is there a straight line somewhere from 3 to 10 feet in front of you on a detailed floor (or a flat ground surface) where the detail becomes just a bit blurry past the line? This "invisible" line would become much more noticeable when you are moving and you realize that the mip-map detail of that ground texture changes as the line moves along with you across the area. If you could take screenshots, please take them in simple games (the simpler the game, the better).

Or anybody else with a HD5k series card (especially if you also have an older ATI card or NV card to compare it against)? Thanks in advance.

 

[air_ii]

Any specifig games? I can do a comparison to 4870. But my first impressions are that the IQ is higher on the 5870. And the SSAA is really sweet.

Let's all at ATI for this! On ATI cards for the past 3 years, we had the "High Quality AF" option, but there's no longer such an option for HD5k series cards. All HD5k series use this perfectly circular AF by default, but with severe brilinear "optimization".

I must say I haven't noticed it in games (the brilinear optimisations).

 

[Bo_Fox]

Any specifig games? I can do a comparison to 4870. But my first impressions are that the IQ is higher on the 5870. And the SSAA is really sweet.



I must say I haven't noticed it in games (the brilinear optimisations).

It could be your favorite game, as long as you can find a wide open space with completely flat ground. Just make sure that the floor/ground is well lighted (without any shadows), so that we can study the texture detail. Thanks!

 

[TAViX]

Guys, a question.

Where can I get some nice values for oc the 5870? I mean voltage and mhz for the core.

I can only run @965 core - 1262mV, before the card starts to show some artifacts.

any suggestions, advices? tnks

 

[HalfAHertz]

Well what are your temps at that oc?

 

[air_ii]

Guys, a question.

Where can I get some nice values for oc the 5870? I mean voltage and mhz for the core.

I can only run @965 core - 1262mV, before the card starts to show some artifacts.

any suggestions, advices? tnks

You might wanna get some better cooling...

 

[air_ii]

It could be your favorite game, as long as you can find a wide open space with completely flat ground. Just make sure that the floor/ground is well lighted (without any shadows), so that we can study the texture detail. Thanks!

Ok, I did some screenshots in Oblivion and FarCry2:

5870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 16AF 8xSSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xSSAA

4870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF + 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF + 8xMSAA

EDIT: Notice how SSAA reduces the Moire pattern. And framerate is still playable! Also, there does not seem to be much of a difference between 16AF and 4AF while SSAA is enabled.

EDIT2: Look at the trees (Oblivion) with SSAA enabled. So much nicer!

 

[erocker]

Ok, I did some screenshots in Oblivion and FarCry2:

5870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 16AF 8xSSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xSSAA

4870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF + 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF + 8xMSAA

EDIT: Notice how SSAA reduces the Moire pattern. And framerate is still playable! Also, there does not seem to be much of a difference between 16AF and 4AF while SSAA is enabled.

EDIT2: Look at the trees (Oblivion) with SSAA enabled. So much nicer!

Thank you very much!

The 58XX series truly does have better AF and AA. No surprise from me though as I actually own the cards unlike others in this thread who try to find things wrong with these cards where there are no problems.

 

[Bo_Fox]

I see the problem.

I could spot the mip-map line in the Oblivion screenshot with the 5870 MSAA 16xAF image in a second flat, even before looking at the 4870 screenshot.

I could draw a circle around the line if you cannot find it in the picture. The line is almost right at the end of the ninth curb stone from the bottom of the picture. From 9th to 20th stones, the texture on the road is more detailed on the 4870 with smoother transition--the road texture looks more consistent as you look from the 6th to the 15th curb stone for example. On the 5870, it does not look consistent after the 8th-9th stone. Between the 8th and 12th curb stones, the road is conspicuously more detailed on the 4870.

In Far Cry 2, the IQ seems to be better for the 4870. I have a hard time finding the line in Far Cry 2, but the road texture that shows the tire tread mark is more vivid in the 4870 ss.

No big deal, since the IQ is not that bad anyways. However, if in motion, that line would be annoying.

Thanks, air_ii. AMD, fix this issue, please!!!

 

[Bo_Fox]

Ok, I did some screenshots in Oblivion and FarCry2:

5870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 16AF 8xSSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF 8xSSAA

4870:
FarCry2 16AF
FarCry2 4AF
Oblivion 16AF + 8xMSAA
Oblivion 4AF + 8xMSAA

EDIT: Notice how SSAA reduces the Moire pattern. And framerate is still playable! Also, there does not seem to be much of a difference between 16AF and 4AF while SSAA is enabled.

EDIT2: Look at the trees (Oblivion) with SSAA enabled. So much nicer!

Thanks a bunch! It's because SSAA effectively doubles the AF. Oh yeah, I love SSAA, and have been using it on NV cards for a few years with nHancer. see: http://www.nhancer.com/help/AASamples.htm

 

[kylzer]

About bandwidth on the 58xx series and 57xx

Overclock Memory - Nearly no change
Overclock Core - Around 4-5 times more effective performance boost than ocing memory well thats what I've found so far.

 

[Bo_Fox]

About bandwidth on the 58xx series and 57xx

Overclock Memory - Nearly no change
Overclock Core - Around 4-5 times more effective performance boost than ocing memory well thats what I've found so far.

If overclocking the memory yields no change, then overclocking the core should have yielded 2000000 times more effective performance boost than ocing memory, or infinite more times!

 

[Binge]

You exaggerate. The memory gives more than 1% gains per 50MHz increase (58XX series cards).

 

[Bo_Fox]

You exaggerate. The memory gives more than 1% gains per 50MHz increase.

LOL, you're so kind!

 

[air_ii]

I see the problem.

I could spot the mip-map line in the Oblivion screenshot with the 5870 MSAA 16xAF image in a second flat, even before looking at the 4870 screenshot.

I could draw a circle around the line if you cannot find it in the picture. The line is almost right at the end of the ninth curb stone from the bottom of the picture. From 9th to 20th stones, the texture on the road is more detailed on the 4870 with smoother transition--the road texture looks more consistent as you look from the 6th to the 15th curb stone for example. On the 5870, it does not look consistent after the 8th-9th stone. Between the 8th and 12th curb stones, the road is conspicuously more detailed on the 4870.

In Far Cry 2, the IQ seems to be better for the 4870. I have a hard time finding the line in Far Cry 2, but the road texture that shows the tire tread mark is more vivid in the 4870 ss.

No big deal, since the IQ is not that bad anyways. However, if in motion, that line would be annoying.

Thanks, air_ii. AMD, fix this issue, please!!!

I don't see that. To me it's just different Moire pattern, due to slightly different camera angle (I did try).

Edit: Ok, I see a slight difference. But is it brilinear optimisation? I'm not sure...

 

[HalfAHertz]

Bo_Fox can you mark it on the SS? I can't see the damn change

 

[bobzilla2009]

same here, i can't see a difference for the life of me, and i have never noticed a line on the ground in games (and i'm a fussy git).

 

[erocker]

The 5870 screenshot for Oblivion is only 1635x1022 pixels.