Multiplayer gaming and visual settings debate

[Mussels]

well what about people that dont even do it on purpose? they do it because they stepped into the game playing the settings that their PC allowed..

this is why i'm calling it game balancing issues, not players hacking/cheating.

in my far cry example, shadows should have been forced on - just very crude blob shadows.

 

[shevanel]

i think its a minor issue really and something I would never go around losing sleep over.

 

[digibucc]

lol ok.

no one is losing sleep that i know of. but has it never crossed your mind? what are the forums for if not to bring up these types of things?

 

[shevanel]

im more paranoid about people hacking on the source engine than anything else.
everytime i get headshot'd I start to think the other guy is hacking and its simply because I dont understand how they get away with it or if its even as much of a problem as my mind thinks.

im not talking about a single headshot, i mean like 4-5 consecutive on several people within a few seconds

 

[TIGR]

digibucc, I meant stfu and gtfo of the game if you're just gonna whine.

Edit because I'm trying to keep up with digibucc's edits lol: I agree this is a good topic for the forums. What makes you think I don't?

 

[ste2425]

i have visuals up max. that wat i buy games for for the looks so id be cheating my self if i turned them down. Thats the way i see it anyway.

 

[warup89]

Meh this is something i've noticed since the days of CS:S, I understand if you have a crap pc and need to lower the setting to make the game playable, but if you have an 800$+ PC and you still lower the settings, that's just plain wrong [and a waste]. I personally Think that's a nerdy/stupid thing to do, since you just want to be top player in server no matter what, which really......doesnt mean crap.

I play games to have fun, and rarely look at the score board; if anything I play so my team wins, not me.

 

[digibucc]

too true ... i will kamikaze and/or grab attention and run to allow my team a chance to get behind enemy lines.

i mean, i get kills and am useful other ways , but no one else will do it and sometimes it is exactly what is needed for that extra push. 1 guy dies so 4 can get past the lines is well worth it... especially with team spawn

 

[hat]

Shouldn't matter. It's my game, if I want to run with everything on low, I should be able to.

 

[shevanel]

i suck at gaming, if anyone wants to put it to the test ill run low and you run max and we'll see what happens

 

[digibucc]

Shouldn't matter. It's my game, if I want to run with everything on low, I should be able to.

no one said you weren't able or allowed to , you are.

you can play a game on an equal footing like most other people, or you can try and get any advantage possible because the only thing that matters to you is having your name higher on the board, not being a decent person and maybe a team player.

it's your choice!

 

[warup89]

Rules i run by in online gaming are:

If I suck -> go to winning team [so I get help]

If I Pwn -> go to loosing team [help em out ]

-its always good to keep the skill balanced out, for a fun long lasting round

 

[TIGR]

-its always good to keep the skill balanced out, for a fun long lasting round

Very true. I try to do well to represent my clan well, but if its just me against one or two people who don't play that well, or if my team is doing very well, I'll generally switch to using my pistol only, or play more recklessly or just plain badly to make it easier for the other team, lest they give up and leave the game. I'd rather lose than have nobody to play with.

 

[PP Mguire]

At a guess, understanding what you are trying to say, I would think that the higher the detail level, the greater the compute when a trigger is pulled to fire off a shot, for example, the CPU (I imagine) has to compute the weapon, distance etc etc and merge that with the detail and scene and then pass to the GPU at the same time as sending and receiving all that info down your broadband connection, at a guess, the more info/detail involved, the slower the info hits the server and therefore "perhaps" it takes a few milliseconds longer for the bullet to hit the enemy...... not sure if that makes the remotest sense but I know what I am trying to say!

Having said that, I am a max eye candy kind of guy!

Well in this case, not broadband limited. Me and him where discussing purely on a LAN level. For instance he goes to LANs and every one he goes to he wins the tourny cause its always an FPS game and he pwns at them all. Its not purely because he lowers the settings and uses a CRT but he also is just that good. He just adds more alcohol to the cut when using his prefered lower settings.

 

[InnocentCriminal]

I'm all about fair play, if other people 'cheat' then I'll fuck 'em off. Fair play or no play! However, that isn't always the case when playing in a PC clan as others can most always have a completely different rig. My community is all about fun and teamwork as opposed to top scores and other things asshatery.

If you get a kick out of reducing your settings and making the game look like shit its your enjoyment then I couldn't give a fuck. If it effects your attitude and makes you into a dick, then you're a freaking douche bag and I hate you!

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I am one of these horrid people. I reduce all my in game setting on multiplayer. I keep res, AA, AF at max, but grass, shadows and stuff get turned off in multiplayer. It's so funny to see someone hiding in the middle of a field thinking they are camo'd by a bush/grass that isn't there. LOL. If I'm playing a FPS on DM/TDM I play to win. It's not cheating...it's like the Matrix, I choose not to see the fake shrubs, tree's, and instead see my target laying in the middle of a field with no cover.

 

[PP Mguire]

I'm all about fair play, if other people 'cheat' then I'll fuck 'em off. Fair play or no play! However, that isn't always the case when playing in a PC clan as others can most always have a completely different rig. My community is all about fun and teamwork as opposed to top scores and other things asshatery.

If you get a kick out of reducing your settings and making the game look like shit its your enjoyment then I couldn't give a fuck. If it effects your attitude and makes you into a dick, then you're a freaking douche bag and I hate you!

I am one of these horrid people. I reduce all my in game setting on multiplayer. I keep res, AA, AF at max, but grass, shadows and stuff get turned off in multiplayer. It's so funny to see someone hiding in the middle of a field thinking they are camo'd by a bush/grass that isn't there. LOL. If I'm playing a FPS on DM/TDM I play to win. It's not cheating...it's like the Matrix, I choose not to see the fake shrubs, tree's, and instead see my target laying in the middle of a field with no cover.

Exactly. Dick moves but deff not cheating.

 

[InnocentCriminal]

Hence why I said, 'cheating'. For want of a better word/phrase. 'Advantage.'

 

[digibucc]

no not cheating, but only because it is technically allowed. it's the same exact mindset.

if you would do that, the only thing stopping you from ACTUALLY cheating is worrying you might get caught.
there's nothing "illegal" or even "disallowed" about it ... but you are a pretty shitty person...

I do have to say, to actually come on and say it though takes some courage i don't know if I would have if I were in your position. that counts for something ... at least you are willing to say it!

 

[PP Mguire]

I dont see how turning down visual settings is considered shitty tbh. I mean come on, if you where to be that way at a LAN whats stopping me from bringing a s939 POS loaded with a 6800GT so nobody can call me "shitty"? Like was said, if you play for fun then dont bitch about it. If you play competitively then play at their own rules. Turn down everything and kick some ass. If you "think" your better than them then you should be able to beat them with the lowest possible visual settings.

 

[digibucc]

it's the mindset. if you have a rig that can easily run high settings, but you run it lower for the sole reason of giving yourself an edge against everyone else who is NOT doing that, than you are shady.

I guess there is nothing "wrong" with it persay. It's not illegal, or criminal, or damnable... but most people don't like people willing to go out of their way to get an advantage over someone else.
I am not really sure how it can be explained if you don't already grasp the concept. It goes along with "don't steal, don't lie, don't fight" etc. Just ethically shady things to do.

and i will still play the game, and will probably never know. but if i knew you in real life, I wouldn't associate with someone who only cares about looking better, not actually being better. if you want a higher score, then practice and get better naturally. make it skill and actually count for something. but to take cheap shortcuts to gain an advantage on everyone else playing naturally... it's just undesirable.

and note, while i'm saying this ... I SUCK! I do pretty poorly by my own standards. I am never last (CS:S, COD4, BC2) ... normally in the top 5 or 6.... but i don't think i am fast enough, i don't think of the right move (try shooting when i should just stab) i screw up and do poorly all the time. But I would rather do poorly and know my score is mine, than do better but only because i took a shortcut/advantage/whatever.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Wow. A shitty person. Because the game devs didn't make it so something renders where that shrub should have been. There should never be a case where changing visuals in the game can give a person an advantage. However there is, so really it's a reward for not using the extra effects.

I really don't think taking advantage of a situation, in a competitive environment, makes me a horrible immoral person. LOL. If you seriously can't handle it go play single player or host lan parties and make sure no one is doing it. Or write the game devs and have them fix it.

Im top 50 in Farcry 2 for TDM and top 100 DM. My clan is very competitive and I recommend they lower their settings to gain the advantage.

 

[OnBoard]

BFBC2 looks pretty much the same on low/high so that's good. Trees and bushes still there.

I tried to hide on vegetation in BF2142 only to get shot.. Well didn't use low settings ever. As high as they went when it came out and maxed later on with better hardware.

 

[digibucc]

No, I'm not going to go anywhere. I am enjoying the game plenty, and as I said I don't even know what your settings are!

it's not the devs fault. it's nothing to do with people with slow systems. a competitive natural advantage is perfectly fine, but when you change game settings (albeit totally allowed) for the sole reason of removing other people's cover - you are not playing the game fairly.

and life isn't fair, games aren't fair, blah blah, yeah. I know. But I don't do it , most people don't do it. Most of us think it is an underhanded, shady thing to do.
you don't. so by all means enjoy. but you disagreeing isn't going to change anything. it's not going to make anyone think you are any less of a shady/shitty person.

and if all of us honest players left, you'd have no one left to kill with your cheap shots.

 

[TIGR]

Digibucc, I think there's a strong correlation between that mindset (and I hear you on the mindset thing 100%) for visual settings and for using grenades/grenade launchers/rockets on people. I understand when a true "noob" uses a lot of nades and rockets. Hey, they're new and trying to keep up. But when someone with a lot of skill uses them constantly, it's hard not to see them as lazy, as poor sports, and as players who have lost the ability to see that having a challenge is at the heart of the very essence of gaming. Quite like cheaters/hackers, though they're not in the same category.

It's similar to how having a low-end system that forces you to turn down your visual settings seems more acceptable than having a high-end system and turning them down anyway. That said, I choose to run at lower settings than need to, but never touch a rocket or "noob tube," so I might be seen as having a double standard. Dunno, you tell me. But to me, turning down visual settings doesn't remove the challenge of the game in the way that explosives often do.

When it comes down to it, there are many things that can be considered cheap tactics, from visual settings to explosives to camping to wall spamming, etc. Hence, the source of much bickering, conflict, heated debate and general immaturity in the gaming community.

It's interesting to me to think: the PC game that generated the most anger and conflict in recent memory, is also the one that removed much of the PC gamer's ability to tweak visual settings. Modern Warfare 2. Many in the PC gaming community argue that the ability to tweak settings is at the core of what makes PC gaming what it is. That's not to say I agree or disagree.