5970 vs 5870 vs GTX480 in Tessellation....

[20mmrain]

I found this while looking around on the net. I haven't seen it posted here ..... so I hope it wasn't but anyway I found it fairly fun considering I like ATI!

I also want to make you aware I found these benchmarks in another forum. So there is a chance they could be fake..... although just buy looking at them and by doing something similar with my 5870 and my Friends 5970 I doubt it. So take it with a grain of salt!

http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/682409-5970-vs-gtx-480-vs-5870-a.html

While the GTX480 seems to do very well in Tessellation it still doesn't hang with the 5970. It is closer than I expected but still not close enough!

Also I wonder if there is a reason Nvidia is only talking up the Tessellation on the GTX 480. I have a feeling the gaming quality is only comparable to the 5870. And if that is the case and the thermal rumors of the GTX 480 turn out to be true...... I doubt we will see a x2 verison Fermi any time soon. Which would mean ATI has finally after all this time pulled off a win.

The bad news is though if that is true...... we won't see prices drop anytime soon!

I also would like to add that I have a feeling that the cause of some of these dips are created by the fact that ATI still doesn't always have the best drivers! If they could straighten out that mess that would be half the battle right there!

 

[20mmrain]

LOL I thought this was way more interesting than not Oh well I guess I was wrong

 

[AlienIsGOD]

Meh i dont believe benchies from either company until the product is in normal reviewers hands/cards are available to public. All these numbers Nvidia is feeding are of course gonna show their card to be better, who in there right mind would show a chart where the competitors card comes out on top

 

[CDdude55]

Meh i dont believe benchies from either company until the product is in normal reviewers hands/cards are available to public. All these numbers Nvidia is feeding are of course gonna show their card to be better, who in there right mind would show a chart where the competitors card comes out on top

Agreed.

It's Always best to ignore these graphs that come out of the actual video card makers. We need these cards in the public's hands, then we can really see what's what. Until then, you should never go off of what Nvidia or ATI/AMD say, cause it's always the same old song and dance.(there own card comes out on top)

 

[newtekie1]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

A single GT200 didn't outperform two RV770s on the HD4870x2, but the GT200 was still one bad ass GPU. The fact that a single fermi core can even hang with the HD5970 is an amazing thing, IMO.

 

[eidairaman1]

whats odd is if NV is placing blame on OEMs, it sounds like they are really in trouble

 

[surfingerman]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

because nVidia doesnt have one and teh king is the king, 2x or 1x, winner is winner

 

[CDdude55]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

A single GT200 didn't outperform two RV770s on the HD4870x2, but the GT200 was still one bad ass GPU. The fact that a single fermi core can even hang with the HD5970 is an amazing thing, IMO.

If it can, then it must be one power hungry bastard. We just have to wait and see, Nvidia can tout all they want about it beating out the 5970, but lets see some real comparisons. But who knows, maybe Nvidia really stepped up there game by getting a look at the 5 series early and really pushing Fermi. But if it does stack up to a 5970, all i want to know is, how will it stay cool, and how much power will it be sucking up. Cause the 5970's are monstrous, sticking the equivalence or more power into a single chip is a mind blowing accomplishment.(at least for now it is)

But we just need to wait and see.

 

[dir_d]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

A single GT200 didn't outperform two RV770s on the HD4870x2, but the GT200 was still one bad ass GPU. The fact that a single fermi core can even hang with the HD5970 is an amazing thing, IMO.

The reason why is because of the size of the core on Nvidias chip. Its nearly twice as big as a Cypress core which would make a 5970 almost the same size as Fermi.

 

[eidairaman1]

If it can, then it must be one power hungry bastard. We just have to wait and see, Nvidia can tout all they want about it beating out the 5970, but lets see some real comparisons. But who knows, maybe Nvidia really stepped up there game by getting a look at the 5 series early and really pushing Fermi. But if it does stack up to a 5970, all i want to know is, how will it stay cool, and how much power will it be sucking up. Cause the 5970's are monstrous, sticking the equivalence or more power into a single chip is a mind blowing accomplishment.(at least for now it is)

But we just need to wait and see.

This here reminds me of a repeat of the ATI R300 vs the GF 5 series, the 5 series was hot and power hungry where the R300 was Fast and Efficient.

 

[20mmrain]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

A single GT200 didn't outperform two RV770s on the HD4870x2, but the GT200 was still one bad ass GPU. The fact that a single fermi core can even hang with the HD5970 is an amazing thing, IMO.

The funny thing I must stress here is that Nvidia is not trying and is not showing any competition with the 5970 or even the 5870 in gaming. All Nvidia has been talking about is the GTX 480's performance in Tessellation.

Which I must say is very great according to their benches!

But we also must remember gaming is not all about Tessellation. Sure it will become more and more important in the Future! But right now it isn't all that important.
If you look at the parts of the Graph were Tessellation is not as present as others the 5870 more than keeps up with the GTX 480 and in some cases beats it.

I agree while the GTX 480 will probably be a marvel in GPU technology and will probably be a power house in future generations. This generation I don't think a single GF100 chip will be able to compete with a with a 5970.

The reason why is because of the size of the core on Nvidias chip. Its nearly twice as big as a Cypress core which would make a 5970 almost the same size as Fermi.

That is a good point too! But also remember how much more tech they are trying to squeeze into that one chip then ATI is!

 

[dir_d]

That is a good point too! But also remember how much more tech they are trying to squeeze into that one chip then ATI is!

And thats exactly why Nvidia failed in my eyes. If they would have kept the tech down and went for performance this card would be faster than 5970 hands down. They should have waited till 28nm was up and ready to try and squeeze in the extra tech. I do believe that squeezing in more tech when 28nm is up and running is ATI's plan and i think it was very smart of them to do what they did this round.

 

[nt300]

This synthetic benchmarks, don't mean much. Nvidia should of designed 2 different types of video cards one base on Fermi and the other based for raw gaming performance. It looks like Nvidia will have to disable functions in Fermi to get performance and stability up.

This benchmark really make Nvidia look bad. HD 5970 will clobber Fermi when released.

 

[20mmrain]

This synthetic benchmarks, don't mean much. Nvidia should of designed 2 different types of video cards one base on Fermi and the other based for raw gaming performance. It looks like Nvidia will have to disable functions in Fermi to get performance and stability up.

This benchmark really make Nvidia look bad. HD 5970 will clobber Fermi when released.

Exactly!!! What they should have done was implemented the Fermi technology for awhile in there workstation cards! After they got it down pat then throw it in.

I mean I know why they did it..... because to design two different GPU's is expensive and designing and using one will be a whole hell of a lot cheaper. So It might make so they can compete with ATI a little more this time!

But because ATI basically is still using their older tech they can still out price war Nvidia. Nvidia's new Fermi card because of it being over engineered has a higher bottom then ATI!

And thats exactly why Nvidia failed in my eyes. If they would have kept the tech down and went for performance this card would be faster than 5970 hands down. They should have waited till 28nm was up and ready to try and squeeze in the extra tech. I do believe that squeezing in more tech when 28nm is up and running is ATI's plan and i think it was very smart of them to do what they did this round.

Actually I read something very close to that same thing some where very recently! While ATI is going to pushing out a Refresh to hold people over..... they are supposed to be completely redesigning the Northern Island Series (aka 6800 series)

Of course ATI is very tight lipped about this...... and it is all just a rumor! But I posted awhile ago a 28nm wafer that was supposedly from AMD/ATI made by GF. So maybe it's farther along then we think

 

[wolf]

I wonder why people are thinking the GTX 480 is going to, or should, match the HD 5970. That is TWO next generation ATi cores vs. one next generation nVidia.

A single GT200 didn't outperform two RV770s on the HD4870x2, but the GT200 was still one bad ass GPU. The fact that a single fermi core can even hang with the HD5970 is an amazing thing, IMO.

I like apples to apples, 1v1 and 2v2, price etc comes into it, but there is no substitute for a single GPU card that has the same muscle as a dual GPU card.

Yes a single GT200 didn't outperform two rv770's, but they also came out a lot closer than 6 months apart, given Nvidia are now half a generation behind ATi, I think many users were expecting more.

 

[Steevo]

The funny thing I must stress here is that Nvidia is not trying and is not showing any competition with the 5970 or even the 5870 in gaming. All Nvidia has been talking about is the GTX 480's performance in Tessellation.

Which I must say is very great according to their benches!

But we also must remember gaming is not all about Tessellation. Sure it will become more and more important in the Future! But right now it isn't all that important.
If you look at the parts of the Graph were Tessellation is not as present as others the 5870 more than keeps up with the GTX 480 and in some cases beats it.

I agree while the GTX 480 will probably be a marvel in GPU technology and will probably be a power house in future generations. This generation I don't think a single GF100 chip will be able to compete with a with a 5970.



That is a good point too! But also remember how much more tech they are trying to squeeze into that one chip then ATI is!

Not only that, but currently we can overclock our chips to 1Ghz on air, and more on water. I just loaded up my custom BIOS for mine, 1010Mhz on air at a mild voltage bump. Did a suicide run at 1070+ at 1.3 volts stable. Adjusting the powerpray settings did wonders for this cards ability to perform on the desktop and fixed flash artifacting.

 

[20mmrain]

The 400-series cards have an extensible tessellation size, meaning that the tessellation performance of an NVIDIA card can scale upward if the GPU demand for other routines scales downwards. ATI cards have a fixed-size tessellator.

This means that benchmarks like Heaven, which considerably weight tessellation in the score, will return scores that wildly favor NVIDIA cards even if the actual performance gap for gamers is small.

I think you overestimate the impact/limits of tessellation. Yes, it increases object detail, but heavily tessellated scenes also place increased demands on other parts of the GPU pipeline. More polygons means more vertexes to shade, bigger textures to map, more lighting to calculate and so on.
Hardware tessellation is all well and good, but the performance of traditional raster elements practically limits the strength of tessellation. That's why designs like Fermi, which dominate tessellation, may not do much for the 3D realism you want outside of canned demos and carefully-concocted scenes.

This guy brings up interesting points here!!! I am sorry that I can link to this.... because as soon as I copied and pasted it I closed that side and I couldn't fins were I was again! So I am really sorry for that!
I am not that knowledgeable about tessellation and all of the inner workings of video cards. Could someone who maybe is comment on these statements above.
Because if this guy knows what he is talking about..... it could so be that Fermi could do very well in Tessellation but crap in the re world with gaming!

Not only that, but currently we can overclock our chips to 1Ghz on air, and more on water. I just loaded up my custom BIOS for mine, 1010Mhz on air at a mild voltage bump. Did a suicide run at 1070+ at 1.3 volts stable. Adjusting the powerpray settings did wonders for this cards ability to perform on the desktop and fixed flash artifacting.

You are right and while most things about Fermi are rumors right now .... from what I here Fermi doesn't sound like it is expected to be able to over clock very well at all!

Due to heat and instability.

 

[eidairaman1]

As I was saying earlier until people get the boards here or even Wizzard gets a Final Release unit (Not Engineering Sample/Test unit) the boards are smoke and mirrors. AMD stood up and Delivered now where is Nvidia that was supposedly Dominating with the GT200b.

 

[20mmrain]

As I was saying earlier until people get the boards here or even Wizzard gets a Final Release unit (Not Engineering Sample/Test unit) the boards are smoke and mirrors. AMD stood up and Delivered now where is Nvidia that was supposedly Dominating with the GT200b.

Nvidia is busy buying 5870's to put their name on! That is where they are J/K Bud

 

[newtekie1]

I like apples to apples, 1v1 and 2v2, price etc comes into it, but there is no substitute for a single GPU card that has the same muscle as a dual GPU card.

Yes a single GT200 didn't outperform two rv770's, but they also came out a lot closer than 6 months apart, given Nvidia are now half a generation behind ATi, I think many users were expecting more.

That is true, but at the same turn, when RV770 was initially released, it still struggled against the almost year old G92... At release, we only had the HD4870 and the HD4850, and the 9800GTX was better than the HD4850, hell even the 8800GTX using the almost 2 year old G80 was better than the HD4850... And the 9800GX2 outperformed both, so at the time ATi was an entire generation behind, but yet every still singed the praises of the awesome RV770...

 

[douglatins]

phew i still ave the fastest card... Though i like that 480 is better than 5800

 

[HalfAHertz]

I'd be perfectly happy if it was just as fast as a GTX295. That by itself would be a tremendous achievement -making a single chip twice as fast as the previous one. But to be honest if Nvidia isn't careful with the pricing, they could slip easily and fail...

 

[InnocentCriminal]

GTX480 Preview.

 

[KainXS]

after thinkin about it i think im wrong lol, can someone tell me what 4 raster ops per clock really is.

 

[Zubasa]

That is true, but at the same turn, when RV770 was initially released, it still struggled against the almost year old G92... At release, we only had the HD4870 and the HD4850, and the 9800GTX was better than the HD4850, hell even the 8800GTX using the almost 2 year old G80 was better than the HD4850...

I wouldn't say the G92 and the 8800GTX are better.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4850/23.html