Are AMD Current CPUs Not Enough For Solid 60 FPS Anymore?

[crazyeyesreaper]

eitherway erocker cadaveca send me a list of games you have that you plan to test and ill compare my results later on with the games i own. Im still using 10.4a and im NOT using the newer crossfire profiles so we shall see if that has any impact as well

 

[cadaveca]

eitherway erocker cadaveca send me a list of games you have that you plan to test and ill compare my results later on with the games i own. Im still using 10.4a and im NOT using the newer crossfire profiles so we shall see if that has any impact as well

take a look @ STEAM for cadaveca, and you can see my games list..I'll be going through all 200+ there, as well as games within my EA downlaoder, and D2D...too many to list.



Might be better until I can post some results...what I really need is people to run the exact same settings, same drivers, everything...to validate this...that means same ram timings, same bios, same driver, everything...

If you want to run through the things Robert mentioned, that's be great...specifically looking for games that don't meet 60FPS...and then to see what can fix it.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

ill take a look im suppose to have a week to 2 weeks of free time coming up so while i cant test now i certainly can then and i can send you the info via PM per game with my exact settings etc

ill do some testing eventually

my system is stock for the time being with ram at 1333mhz 7 7 7 20 1T

when i do start testing ill begin with Dragon Age and play through the begining 3 times in single card and crossfire at stock and then ill try my mild OC settings of 3600/2400 and see what difference that makes think of my data collected as a foot note to get a bit more scope from

 

[Athlon2K15]

So we are going to have a benchmark war? AWESOME count me in!!!

 

[TheMailMan78]

Sry e, but he claimed I was contradicting myself, and then proceeeded to do the same himself. pot calling the kettle black, and he's derailed this a page already, with nothing to realyl add, except to try to get me going. I'll not fall for it though. Infract away if you wish..will give me more time to test.

I never said that Denial Son. I said we ALL have different settings and that we need a controled enviroment. Now I'm off to enjoy ALL OF MY GAMES AT 60+ FPS. Have fun with your experiment Dr. TWKR.

 

[cadaveca]

Try the Times Square level and you will be mortified at how bad AMD does there. Stock Phenom II 920, triple 4850 1 gig, 4 gigs of DDR 2 RAM @ 2560 * 1600. It locks up, the frames drop from 60 down to 20 in an instant and it is almost unplayable and certainly unenjoyable. It literally stops at times. That is my experience in Ghostbusters. Perhaps I will just move on to my Athlon II Rig and test at 1080p. If that sucks the same I'll try the 9850 with 2 1 gig 4850s.

I've been using Cat 10.5. Won't upgrade just yet since I had bug where manual fan control wouldn't work after upgrading drivers. A 4850 X2 without manual fan control is a jet turbine under load.

think you could host a save file or two somewhere's?

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

i always wonder why people compare Phenom II with a i7 ... hmmm the memory channal is not the same.. i7 has 3 and phenom has only 2

so in a i7 more data can be sent and reserved

phenom is to be compared with Qx the last gen quad and not i7 hmmm

the compaction for i7 will not be released by AMD since the next AMD processor is bulldozer with 4channel memory

People compare what's priced equally; why I often compare an i5 750 to 1055T. That's what's fair any way you cut it.

After everyone sorts out standard settings I'd recommend retesting with slight setting changes. See if a performance hit exists for one person but not another then compare the setups.

 

[cadaveca]

After everyone sorts out standard settings I'd recommend retesting with slight setting changes. See if a performance hit exists for one person but not another then compare the setups.

Exactly. Thank you so much for understanding.


That is exactly what AMD should be doing, when it comes to drivers. But it kinda just dawned on me a while ago...if they did that, things wouldn't be so cheap, now would they?

Now imagine having to do this, every month. It's a bloody huge task...


That's what had me testing at stock speeds in the first place, and having this idea...how can you really have any standard, but stock speeds?


Now, I understand if AMD were running tests and developing with overclocked systems...it gets the work done faster. It's a big part of why I'm so sure that's what they are doing...

I don't care who is faster, who costs more...all I know is that if this is done right, everyone will benefit from it.

 

[Mussels]

lol at mailmans trolling.

I am stil ltesting, but it seems the i7 overclocked still beats out AMD. i7 costs more, so to me, it's no big deal...you get what you pay for.



Again, MM, i'll say this, you are trolling. Either post data that refutes it, or get out. Even Mussels and erocker agree cpu is the bottleneck.

Crossfired 5850's Issue

the problem here *as stated in the other thread* is that you're running crossfire. that adds more CPU load into the mix.

If you had one GPU your performance would end up being better, due to having less CPU power needs on your older/weaker CPU. (remember, me and mailman have 2 more cores than you, and a newer CPU design)


i'm only upto page 3 here and i can already see whats happened. cad knows he's CPU limited and would rather blame AMD, than blame himself for having too slow a CPU to run his video cards.

Mailman is trying to say that he has zero issues whatsoever, even at a stock CPU - because he doesnt have crossfire.

the rest, was just trolling and poor communication skills.


(now to post this and read the rest of the thread)

 

[Athlon2K15]

the easiest fix for all these issues is buy an intel cpu

 

[cadaveca]

lol

Uh, basically. Except that the platform as I chose it is the launch platform for the 5-series cards, top to bottom, but everything else is 100% bang on, I think.







And we'll see about the extra two cores...as soon as ASUS launches the CH4E.

the easiest fix for all these issues is buy an intel cpu

I don't know that yet...but I'll test and find out...not gonna get bitten again.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

lol at mailmans trolling.


Are AMD Current CPUs Not Enough For Solid 60 FPS ...

the problem here *as stated in the other thread* is that you're running crossfire. that adds more CPU load into the mix.

If you had one GPU your performance would end up being better, due to having less CPU power needs on your older/weaker CPU. (remember, me and mailman have 2 more cores than you, and a newer CPU design)


i'm only upto page 3 here and i can already see whats happened. cad knows he's CPU limited and would rather blame AMD, than blame himself for having too slow a CPU to run his video cards.

Mailman is trying to say that he has zero issues whatsoever, even at a stock CPU - because he doesnt have crossfire.

the rest, was just trolling and poor communication skills.


(now to post this and read the rest of the thread)

Protip: Open up notepad and write your midway-through-thread reply so you don't forget the points in your mind currently, then finish reading before actually replying. Not saying it will apply here, just less likely to say something that doesn't fit doing it that way.

 

[Mussels]

Protip: Open up notepad and right your midway-through-thread reply so you don't forget the points in your mind currently, then finish reading before actually replying. Not saying it will apply here, just less likely to say something that doesn't fit doing it that way.

my quote broke in that post, i fixed it and it makes more sense now.

 

[3volvedcombat]

From what Ive seen, theres not alot of games you can run max at 60fps, even with a HD 5970.

You cant talk about FPS and hate on a processor, when 85% of the dam work is done by the video card

If i was a video card, i would be sad because no one is acknowledged i exist

Seriesly guys.

6 core Thubans, are the same thing as Phenom II's just 2 extra cores here people, so dont think its going to MAGICALLY raise performance :shadedshu

A Phenom II can get 60fps solid, just clock it 4.0ghz and sit back and use a real video card.

A Phenom I sucks balls.

Any Athlon II or I Though i give props, isnt ready for 60 fps.

Ofcourse a i7 is going to do great, Its got silly architexture, its going to clock nicely, and its got more cores to handle other task and threads so its the best out of the best at 280 dollars a pop.
i7 is more expensive, when equated to getting the RAM/MOBO/PROCESSOR
AMD is less expensive, when equated to getting the RAM/MOBO/PROCESSOR.
Ive seen Phenom II's excell at 60+fps.
Dont complain, if you use antiviruz, Sick windows vista :shadedshu, or load up windows 7 with a bunch of programs, making it vista :shadedshu
and use a crappy video card
45-60 fps for me is fine.
for me, on my 1440x900 resolution with this GTX 470 and 4.0Ghz quad, I get 60+ FPS In crysis, many other games, GTA 4 sometimes, Any game that isnt a crappy port, or really heavy on the power like Mafia II or metro 2033

But anything else i get 60 fps solid. I mean, In my setting.

****EDIT****

After reading your post. HD 4850's arnt as fast as 4890's, or a GTX 460 at 800Mhz core.

Tripple 4850's could be a stuttering unstable, CPU BOTTLENECKED Disaster, in PCI-E bandwith, and Drivers.

4850's on that AMD system could have some driver, stuttering issue's, and a motherboard could be the cause.

Those i7 systems have high end x58 motherboard, When they were released, and you slamming 2 4890's in them a GTX 460 solutions overclocked in them, there going to be faster. by a long shot.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

my quote broke in that post, i fixed it and it makes more sense now.

Too bad it didn't break in that ^ post. Now my moronic spelling is immortalized (right/write)

 

[Mussels]

From what Ive seen, theres not alot of games you can run max at 60fps, even with a HD 5970.

You cant talk about FPS and hate on a processor, when 85% of the dam work is done by the video card

If i was a video card, i would be sad because no one is acknowledged i exist

Seriesly guys.

6 core Thubans, are the same thing as Phenom II's just 2 extra cores here people, so dont think its going to MAGICALLY raise performance :shadedshu

you forgot turbo mode

you also contradicted yourself in the part i didnt quote, about background tasks. you think those extra two cores wont help with antivirus and such trying to interfere?

 

[3volvedcombat]

you forgot turbo mode

you also contradicted yourself in the part i didnt quote, about background tasks. you think those extra two cores wont help with antivirus and such trying to interfere?

Thats true, Depends how greety the antiviruz cpu core thief can be

 

[claylomax]

Found this: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/phenom-versus-i7,review-31630.html

 

[cadaveca]

Found this: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/phenom-versus-i7,review-31630.html

Dated July 13, 2009...over a year old. Doesn't apply with today's drivers.


I'm kinda highlighting this problem for a reason...you raen't giong to find this info, or anything that relates, unless it was published...say...after April 2010.

 

[claylomax]

Just as well . . .

 

[cadaveca]

Just as well . . .

Still an interesting article. I have other issues with it, such as them using differnt vgas in each system, and only 790X chipset in the AMD system, but they mention these points as well.

In the end, it seems that there are a few caveats for getting 60FPS outta your cpu, and the vga(s) you use seems to play a very large role in determining what cpu is right for the performance you desire.

My problem relates to not being able to buy a processor with the nessecary speeds required to push my vgas. As Mussels mentioned, it's quite clear that in my case, limitations come into play that affect my overall system performance, that might not be present in a different config...however, beucase i bought the best available at the time these cards were launched, this really highlights, to me, a failure in the launch of Both Eyefinity, and the 58--series vgas, when used in CrossfireX.

Of course, the easy way to fix this is to overclock...however, this whole situation may highlight where the 6-series is headed, as to me, these "obvious" faults are things that they would look to adress with successive generations.

The details we have now about these up and coming cards seems to reflect my thoughts here, but as they can only be accepted as rumour at this point, we can't realyl make any conclusions about that just yet.

But, if these rumours are true, then I must stand my ground on this position, and call any computing solution featuring this shader design, when grouped together in configs larger than 1600 shaders, a failure, and this is based purely on the fact that overclocking your cpu can overcome these limitions, but at the same time, voids your warranty.


that may sound very "doom and gloom", but really, we don't hear of cpus dying very often, so clearly warranty concerns from overlcocking aren't that big of an issue...but to me, they are an issue nonetheless.

 

[CDdude55]

So are you guys still keeping on the trench coats to play Sherlock Holmes or is this mystery issue solved?

 

[cadaveca]

I don't think it's really "solved", and I think you should have been able to tell that my posts over the past 2 months have been leading up to exactly this...but I was waiting to generate alot of data to prove my point, rather than having someone else ask the same question...this just simply sped up what I was looking at already.

Anyway, I think that this is very important both now, and in the future...the high-end enthusiast really needs to pay attention to this, I think, and really, as it seems to be a fact(but not 100% yet), it also highlights why certain changes exist from the 5-series to the 6-series.

So, when the 6-series launches, it should prove fruitful to make a compare of 5-series and 6-series, in exactly these situations. But if this issue had not been exposed prior to the launch of 6-series, it may not have even been really mentioned, or even investigated.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

agreed and yes im wearing my tench coat

 

[Loosenut]

*subbed
I'm very intrigued by Cadaveca's theory and hopefully soon to be released results.

Good luck in your research Dave