Catalyst drivers are "FAIL"? Please elaborate!

[dir_d]

Honestly there are so many hidden settings in CCC, i think its too advanced for a majority of the users. They should dumb it down like Nvidia's control panel.

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

^ Interesting take but I'm not sure I'd say that Nvidia's is dumbed-down rather just has a better, easier to read and over all more intuitive interface. All the while still having a few more 3D options as well which is noteworthy.

 

[garyinhere]

Honestly there are so many hidden settings in CCC, i think its too advanced for a majority of the users. They should dumb it down like Nvidia's control panel.

That's like saying windows is a dumbed down version of mac... just because they make it user friendly don't mean it's dumbed down

 

[Mussels]

That's exactly what I'm saying, M. You then have to go fiddling around in the game to turn it off which is inconvenient and irritating. And if the game has a bug in it that keeps it on... nvidia allows you to just "force it off" regardless, as cadaveca put it. AF has the same limitation on Catalyst.

no, you dont get it. driver AA and game settings are completely different.


If you set AA to 'off' in the NVCP, the games can still force it on - ATI/AMD are simply more clear in their wording "Our AA is off, but we cant control the game settings"

 

[Paintface]

using ATI since 2002 i havent seen a single bug and installed new drivers every month.

Problem is mostly behind the computer, and if you have beef with ati drivers anyway please dont hesitate and buy a gtx 580 and stick to the nvidia forum. You wont be missed.

 

[cadaveca]

using ATI since 2002 i havent seen a single bug and installed new drivers every month.

Problem is mostly behind the computer, and if you have beef with ati drivers anyway please dont hesitate and buy a gtx 580 and stick to the nvidia forum. You wont be missed.

It's great that you haven't had any issues, but let me list AMD's current list of "Issues We Know About, But Haven't Fixed Yet"get ready for a huge wall of text:

Known Issues Under All Windows Operating Systems
The following section provides a summary of open issues that may be experienced under
the Windows operating system in the latest version of AMD Catalyst. These include:
Catalyst Control Center: Enable dialog reposition does not show on proper monitor
when system is configured with 4 displays
AMD Catalyst™ Release Note Version 10.10 10
Switching the preferred display in specific Eyefinity configurations may cause the
displays to become disabled
During 4x1 Eyefinity configuration, the Catalyst Control Center "Desktops &
Displays" properties page may show black monitors instead of the actual desktop
background with display numbers on specific cards
With Super Anti-Aliasing enabled, Crossfire logo might not appear during
"StarCraft® II" game launch on AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
System may stop responding while running OpenCL "Multi Device/Context"
Conformance test on GPU for some cards
When using "Overdrive", clicking the "Default" button might not switch the GPU
and memory clocks back to their idle clock values once the memory clock value has
been changed on some cards
Known Issues Under the Windows 7 Operating System
The following section provides a summary of open issues that may be experienced under
the Windows 7 operating system in the latest version of AMD Catalyst. These include:
Running fullscreen DirectX 9 applications/games after enabling Aero effects and
rebooting may cause the system to stop responding
Task switching to desktop and then back into "Far Cry 2" DX10 game may result in
performance drop with CrossFire enabled under Multi-GPU configurations
Primary display may blank out during "World in Conflict™: Soviet Assault"
DirectX10 gameplay with CrossFire and Dual Monitor enabled
Drag and Drop transcoded H264i content may show de-interlacing lines
Display may intermittently turn blank on launching "Enemy Territory™: Quake
Wars" or during gameplay under Multi-GPU configurations on some cards
With CrossFire enabled, flickering may be observed in OpenGL games when refresh
rate is set to 100Hz or higher on some cards
Desktop may dim after exiting "Mafia™ II" game on some cards
Under multi-adapter configuration, various rotated displays in Eyefinity set up might
not be retained after reboot
Mouse cursor may intermittently be corrupt/missing in one of the displays under
Eyefinity configuration while playing games/samples
Tearing corruption may be visible in specific "StarCraft II" game campaigns at low
resolution settings (1024x768) on some cards
"Stone Giant" DirectX 11 demo may fail in fullscreen mode with CrossFire enabled
under Multi-GPU configurations on some cards
Task switching out of "Battlefield: Bad Company™ 2" and then back into the game
may cause CrossFire to become disabled
Wrap-around corruption may be visible with 120 Hz panels during some resolution
changes in 120 Hz mode on AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
Switching from 32-bit to 16-bit colordepth during WMV media playback may cause
the video to go blank on some cards
"Need for Speed: Shift" may intermittently display tearing corruption if races are
played back-to-back without exiting the game on AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
Enabling CrossFire in "Far Cry 2" DirectX 9 may result in low performance and
benchmark failing to complete on some cards
AMD Catalyst™ Release Note Version 10.10 11
"Tom Clancy's Endwar™" may stop responding during game cut scenes on some
cards
Enabling in-game Anti-Aliasing and utilizing Edge-Detect filters may cause
smoother lines but blurry textures when compared to the Standard filter on some
cards
Enabling anti-aliasing in "StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™" may cause outline
highlights to be rendered incorrectly on some cards
Green texture corruption may be observed when resolution/video settings are
changed in "Metro 2033" game in DirectX 10 and 11 mode on some cards
Rebooting a system with a CRT connected to the MiniDP port may cause all
resolutions except 640x480 to go missing
Windows Media® Center application may stop responding or system may
intermittently fail while playing 1080p video in 2x2 & 4X1 Eyefinity mode
Desktop line corruption may be observed after hotplugging the HDCP display on
some cards
Known Issues Under the Windows Vista Operating System
The following section provides a summary of open issues that may be experienced under
the Windows Vista operating system in the latest version of AMD Catalyst. These
include:
Running fullscreen DirectX 9 applications/games after enabling Aero effects and
rebooting may cause the system to stop responding
Corruption might be visible in "Doom™ 3" and "Quake™ 4" with ATI Radeon HD
4700 Series
All but the primary display under Eyefinity configuation might become disabled
while changing the preferred display at lowest Bezel compensated resolution
When "World of Warcraft" is launched via TriDef® 3D and hardware cursor is
enabled, the mouse cursor may flicker and disappear
Performing bezel compensation on 3x2 Eyefinity configuration may cause the bezel
group (resolutions) to go missing
"Left 4 Dead™ 2" may fail to launch and will generate an error message when
desktop is set to portrait mode on AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
Hot swapping a HDCP display panel with a non-HDCP display may cause display to
turn blank after resuming from sleep/hibernate during Blu-ray disc playback

36 Issues. All in all, it's not too bad, but to say there are no issues is outright false. Even AMD isn't pompous enough to say that nothing is wrong.

 

[RejZoR]

Using a single card, single GPU solution with 1 monitor and you won't have much problems if any. But once you go multi GPU, multi card and multi monitor way there are always problems. That's why i stick with the first type of config and haven't had any problems with any NVIDIA or ATI/AMD product in the last 9 years. Before that i had S3 Savage hehe

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

There is no "Fail" in drivers. Its plagued with bugs just like any drivers. nVidia drivers have bugs as well. You cant eliminate human error. You can only reduce it.

 

[the54thvoid]

With Super Anti-Aliasing enabled, Crossfire logo might not appear during
"StarCraft® II" game launch on AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

lol.... That's an issue? At least they're being anally honest about things.

My only CCC issue is not knowing if i have to download the lastest driver to then install the lastest application profile or can you install app profiles on older drivers too?

 

[qubit]

no, you dont get it. driver AA and game settings are completely different.


If you set AA to 'off' in the NVCP, the games can still force it on - ATI/AMD are simply more clear in their wording "Our AA is off, but we cant control the game settings"

Ok, I see what you're saying now - no wonder it was driving me nuts. So, if I've got this right, then for example, one could switch on 4x AA in the game and 2x AA in the driver and you'd have some sort of hybrid AA? The same would go for AF.

Also, I can't remember off the top of my head now (I'm not at my home PC now) but can't all AA/AF be forced off in the nvidia driver regardless of game settings? This would still be an advantage for nvidia's driver.

 

[RejZoR]

Well, games don't use AA by default unless you set it in the games settings. One and only exception is NFS World where you just have a slider and on Very high it uses 4x FSAA or something whether you like it or not. In others, if CCC is set to Use Application settings and you don't have any AA set inside game, there won't be any AA used. In lots of other games, the CCC settings prevail as they are forced on driver level and usually simply override game settings unless it's using some other method which can either run along CCC AA mode or CCC doesn't even work (like Dead Space) where it's suggested to use MLAA anyway.

 

[wahdangun]

hmm i never have any driver problem with ati since 9800 pro era,

same with nvdia since nvdia riva TNT

 

[Bundy]

My experience with nvidia drivers was that they just installed over the old ones and always worked. Every time the released a new driver, I faithfully downloaded it and had no issues. My experience with AMD has been different. In my days having a 9200, a driver install was like pulling the handle of a poker machine, jackpot or bust. Now I have 5850's and I'm stuck on 10.4 and havent had time to try a driver sweep and who knows what to get any newer version working. Why must I piss around with this stuff?

I'm definitely of the opinion that nvidia writes better driver installs. I haven't seen much difference in driver performance though.

 

[MoonPig]

Never had an issue in nearly 3 years. So... No, their not.

nVidia however, would NOT let me use my 9800GX2 to play games or my GTX260 on that had. So, i prefer ATi at this moment.

However, however. I see that some say nVidia is fine, ATi is rubbish and ATi is fine, nVidia is rubbish. The main part of these statements is the "for me".

 

[qubit]

Never had an issue in nearly 3 years. So... No, their not.

nVidia however, would NOT let me use my 9800GX2 to play games or my GTX260 on that had. So, i prefer ATi at this moment.

However, however. I see that some say nVidia is fine, ATi is rubbish and ATi is fine, nVidia is rubbish. The main part of these statements is the "for me".

That seems to be the operative word. Drivers can show different issues on different hardware and I'm thinking motherboards, chipsets, sounds cards etc here, let alone different models of graphics card. And then you have all the different versions of Windows, their patch levels and other software that's installed too. The whole lot has to work together for the driver to work properly and that's an awful lot of combinations that all have to work together in harmony...

 

[Mussels]

Ok, I see what you're saying now - no wonder it was driving me nuts. So, if I've got this right, then for example, one could switch on 4x AA in the game and 2x AA in the driver and you'd have some sort of hybrid AA? The same would go for AF.

Also, I can't remember off the top of my head now (I'm not at my home PC now) but can't all AA/AF be forced off in the nvidia driver regardless of game settings? This would still be an advantage for nvidia's driver.

yes, exactly. thats how some of the fancy AA modes work anyway, throwing two AA modes in at the same time.

 

[Widjaja]

Actually I do not recall having issues myself with either brand when it came to the drivers.

Only a card from nVidia but it wasn't due to drivers but a bad batch.

 

[Mussels]

i've had issues with both brands equally.

In the early G80 days, driver crashes were common. also had the fan speed issues that nearly cost me an 8800GTX.

On ATI, i've had various issues: most were with crossfire, and i get the cursor corruption on a single, DVI connected monitor. (but it goes away quickly)

 

[RejZoR]

Never had cursor corruption. Though it happened few times that image was all colorful when i started the game and i couldn't do anything after that except restart the system. But haven't got this for a while now. Thankfully...

 

[Frick]

The only problems I've had with ATi drivers was that CCC refused to start.

Geforce drivers have caused nothing but problems for me though.

 

[Mussels]

Never had cursor corruption. Though it happened few times that image was all colorful when i started the game and i couldn't do anything after that except restart the system. But haven't got this for a while now. Thankfully...

i only get it in starcraft II these days, company of heroes before that.


key seems to be having the mouse cursor hit bottom left corner of screen where the minimise all/show desktop button is - its some kind of corruption due to a fullscreen 3D app, and the 'aero peek' crap hovering over that button does.


I THINK it only does it when something pops up, such as an MSN alert in the background, at the time the cursor is over that button making the cursor be over the desktop, and not the game at that brief moment.

 

[human_error]

There is no "Fail" in drivers. Its plagued with bugs just like any drivers. nVidia drivers have bugs as well. You cant eliminate human error. You can only reduce it.

Damn straight

On topic:

As for the list of "issues" ATi list those are all "possible" issues which have been reported by users - if you follow the steps ATi has for those issues odds are you will not see the problem - ATi only list them so that if you do see the issue you can see they are aware of it and will be looking to fix it. A lot of the issues listed there are reported from the CCC tester feedback and are not guaranteed to happen on every setup. nVidia will have a list of issues just like this one but they don't publish their list (that i've seen).

All drivers have defects in them (ati, nvidia, intel, matrox, via etc), and yes if you are impacted it sucks for you but in the vast majority of cases no-one will see these issues. I've never seen any cursor issues with my 5970 even with eyefinity and using DP for my main monitor - that doesn't mean there are no issues (obviously there are) but it just means they are not guaranteed to happen, so take defect lists such as the one posted above with a pinch of salt.

Whenever developing every new feature you add has a risk associated with it in regards to regressing previously fixed defects so they re-appear or introducing new defects - this is a fact of life. So what would you rather have - the occasional defect in your drivers which can be avoided by back-dating to a previous driver until a hotfix or new release is shipped OR would you rather have drivers which never get new defects and just have a shrinking list of defects. Oh and to have the defect free versions you get NO performance improvements, NO new features, NO optimisations - nothing. Just less bugs. I'd rather get new features and improvements such as better eyefinity options, better performance in new games, morphological AA, the ability to force AA in games which don't support it etc - and i'm prepared to take the risk of the occasional defect.

This goes for all drivers - ati, nvidia, intel - i'd rather see progress and the occasional minor defect than no progress ever.

 

[cadaveca]

This goes for all drivers - ati, nvidia, intel - i'd rather see progress and the occasional minor defect than no progress ever.

True enough. I guess, starting this month, we can really say AMD is making progress...we've got 6 drivers in 3 weeks this month.

Running fullscreen DirectX 9 applications/games after enabling Aero effects and
rebooting may cause the system to stop responding

This is a HUGE issue. It doesn't cause my system to stop responding, but does cause a fairly large performance drop as the driver deals with the problem.

And while there may be work arounds, to me, that is not good enough. I do understand that with many OSes, and literally billions of software combinations, it's really is impossible to make a perfect driver.

But that doesn't make me want a "perfect" driver any less.

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

yes, exactly. thats how some of the fancy AA modes work anyway, throwing two AA modes in at the same time.

So this is the same as Nvidia's "enhance" in-game AA setting I am assuming.

 

[dir_d]

10.10e is out which official brings MLAA to 5 series cards, Cat startup has changed alittle says AMD catalyst now.

edit..Pink screen issue is gone as well