3D or Hardware Sound in games dead??

[TAViX]

I wasn't talking about this. I was talking about why game developers are no longer investing in 3D that much, not even in simple libraries like OpenAL that have only quarter of implementations from EAX 4.0. They put just 4.1 or 5.1 sounds in games and that's surround sound in their conception.
...
I really miss those games like DeusEx where you could have her the chopper flying over you, or the perfect bouncing, realistic life like sounds from Unreal or FEAR.....
Nowadays everything sounds so flat and boring...what a waste.

And Mussles there is a difference between emulated software sound and real sound processed hardware, both in quality and CPU utilization.
Check the net for some comparisons if you don't believe me...

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

I love EAX.. loved how it was implemented in GuildWars and HL1. From what I remember, Vista removed it because it was too low level, and was deemed prone to memory level exploits. MS decided that everything must pass through directx, alienating creative and perhaps waiting for them to 'open up' and integrate it with dx, or die like glide

In anycase, 3d sound and effects can be done through software, have you heard BadCompany2's wartapes settings? Its sounds great, and like mussels said, its up to the developers to implement this level of sound quality in their games or not.

 

[erixx]

yeah Bjorn, but I agree with Tavix that Positional sound is less impressive than with those games like he mentions! BC2 wartapes sounds great in another sense.

Maybe the 5.1 speakers sets are not selling much and publishers know it?

 

[TAViX]

Regarding that 3D sound doesn't affect gaming performance, read this:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-331-5.htm

Here is some very interesting comparison from integrated sound and HW 3D sound:

also CPU usage is double with integrated stuff:

 

[Robert-The-Rambler]

That review is 5 years old!!!!!!!

Regarding that 3D sound doesn't affect gaming performance, read this:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-331-5.htm

Here is some very interesting comparison from integrated sound and HW 3D sound:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=4999&ts=1146830489

also CPU usage is double with integrated stuff:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=5004&ts=1146834338

Todays CPUs are readily capable of handling audio acceleration and frankly if you have a Creative card no hoops are needed to get EAX 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0. They are supported in hardware in Vista and Windows 7 anyway. Only 1.0 and 2.0 need to be activated by Alchemy if you have a Creative Card or GX if you have a Xonar Card etc..... This is not that big a deal at all.

 

[ctrain]

I like how you skipped the other pictures where there is no meaningful difference. The hardware they were on is over half a decade old at this point.

 

[erixx]

ctrain, ok, so 5 years old. But I have not seen any acustic improvement in the last 5 years, sorry!

(well, really, not much graphics wise either... dx11 what?. No really, nothing worth 100's of euros invested in gfx. Apart from brute speed and more resolution)

 

[KainXS]

ctrain, ok, so 5 years old. But I have not seen any acustic improvement in the last 5 years, sorry!

(well, really, not much graphics wise either... dx11 what?. No really, nothing worth 100's of euros invested in gfx. Apart from brute speed and more resolution)

it really depends on what board you buy I bought a X58 board with a 892 and it sounded really good, bought another one with the same chip to replace the X58 and it sounded noticably worst, when done right though those codecs don't sound bad actually, until you compare them to something like a xonar or ht omega

still that review is 5 years old and they don't even say what cpu is used i think, its not a good review

 

[[H]@RD5TUFF]

I personally don't mind that much, as I play with the sound off or with music on, as most games now days have a horrible soundtracks and voice acting, so IMO it doesn't bother me at all really.

 

[TAViX]

Todays CPUs are readily capable of handling audio acceleration and frankly if you have a Creative card no hoops are needed to get EAX 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0. They are supported in hardware in Vista and Windows 7 anyway. Only 1.0 and 2.0 need to be activated by Alchemy if you have a Creative Card or GX if you have a Xonar Card etc..... This is not that big a deal at all.

You serious?!?!?!

supported in hardware??? LOL:shadedshu

The hardware they were on is over half a decade old at this point.

Doesn't matter that. Could be 1 million old.
The point is that the 3D sound implementation in games is dead. Even OpenAL games are scarce, the last game I know is Mass Effect 2, but it's implementation is 100% software with VERY limited effects. Except for 5.1 positioning, the effects are worst than EAX 2.0 (released in 1999 shadedshu). That's the point.
The producers are getting so lazy and indifferent for the PC gamers, I foresee the same fate for the stupid Physics when nvidia will stop sponsor the game companies...

 

[ctrain]

uh have you heard bad company 2 in action

ps 3d sound hasn't gone anywhere and just about every game ever supports it.

there is nothing special at all about the feature list that software engines don't do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions#EAX_5.0

 

[hellrazor]

I'd like you to try 128 channels with a different set of 4 effects on each of them through software, please.

 

[[H]@RD5TUFF]

uh have you heard bad company 2 in action

ps 3d sound hasn't gone anywhere and just about every game ever supports it.

there is nothing special at all about the feature list that software engines don't do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions#EAX_5.0

Were talking about PC, not some junk that Sony put out for fan boys to tout as a feature.

 

[ctrain]

I'd like you to try 128 channels with a different set of 4 effects on each of them through software, please.

snore 128, a software engine may as well have no limit besides cpu time and might offer greater flexibility on top.


here's what the CPM dev has to say on overhauling the sound in the Q3 engine:
http://www.promode.org/forum/viewto...g&sid=186d7a9ace70cb8ddc0bc256ceb0796d#p42722

Were talking about PC, not some junk that Sony put out for fan boys to tout as a feature.

where did i ever mention sony or did you just read the letters ps and immediately have a stroke mashing the quote button so you could nutkick emoticon me?

 

[KainXS]

i think he got confused with

ps 3d

no biggy

 

[erixx]

Hey guys, this thread is good at the bottom, but lets define some concepts:

1) Directional audio: when a enemy shoots at me from 60 degrees behind me I want to hear him from 60 degrees (using of course at least 4 speakers, 5, 5.1, 6 or whatever)

2) Environmental (EAX and similars): algorythms to take distance, materials, etc into account

3) others... like sound quality, effects, reverbs...

Personally, I have a 5.1 setup since over 10 years and I MISS games that implement DIRECTIONAL (1) done right. It seams that headphones, earplugs (?) and TV set stereo speakers have damaged this area.

What I am wondering (after reading the marvelous blogs of the BF:BC2 dev's about audio) am I mad, wrong, is my setup "damaged"? But fact is I don't hear or 'feel' the bullets coming left or left-front, or left, behind, etc... Or the helos crossing over my head...

Is there anybody out there that is really enjoying lets say 5.1 positional audio effects?

 

[hellrazor]

1) Directional audio: when a enemy shoots at me from 60 degrees behind me I want to hear him from 60 degrees (using of course at least 4 speakers, 5, 5.1, 6 or whatever)

This is where ambiophonics comes in.

 

[hellrazor]

How is it overkill? Seriously, all you have to do is move your speakers closer and figure out a way to do some fancy stuff to the sound using matrices, and you're all good.

You should try it, it makes things sound FANTASTIC. The only reason I don't run it all the time is because my speakers have to be in the way of my monitor.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

What I am wondering (after reading the marvelous blogs of the BF:BC2 dev's about audio) am I mad, wrong, is my setup "damaged"? But fact is I don't hear or 'feel' the bullets coming left or left-front, or left, behind, etc... Or the helos crossing over my head...

Is there anybody out there that is really enjoying lets say 5.1 positional audio effects?

you need to edit your BC2 config file to fix that. BC2 is terrible at detecting if you have surroundsound setup hooked up. so you need to edit your user ini file and set the speaker option to 6 (if running 5.1) and that seems to work pretty well. Ive done that same and its made quite a difference to where gunfire and rockets etc etc are coming from

 

[FreedomEclipse]

BC2 is a mediocre games anyways I think.......

well its a lot better then CoD:MW2 & BLops i tell you that. now them 2 are truely mediocre games

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Got an Omega Claro with Audiotechnica headphones.

I'd sooner part with a crossfire/sli setup than give up my sound card.

But I do use it for music and movies as well as games. I do agree that its up to developer's to implement high sound quality in games, but customers nowadays aren't too vocal on improved sound, they want "OMGz those grafixx are teh sexx!!"

Alas, if not enough people care, neither will developers.

 

[claylomax]

A thread about hardware sound ... Where is Imperialreign?

 

[FreedomEclipse]

A thread about hardware sound ... Where is Imperialreign?

I think he went to have a long cry in a dark corner when everyone jumped on the Asus boat for Audio instead of creative's XFi which means he has less minions to do his bidding for him (lol)

 

[Dent1]

What I am wondering (after reading the marvelous blogs of the BF:BC2 dev's about audio) am I mad, wrong, is my setup "damaged"? But fact is I don't hear or 'feel' the bullets coming left or left-front, or left, behind, etc... Or the helos crossing over my head...

Is there anybody out there that is really enjoying lets say 5.1 positional audio effects?

Yes.

Today's games are now recorded with 5 audio streams. It's up to the user to have the appropriate Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect supported sound card along with a supported amplifer/receiver.

If you guys dont have a DDL or DTSC sound card or a amplifer/receiver then don't complain about surround sound. Although I will admit that the general sound effects in games has gone down hill over the years.

 

[Mussels]

i sure enjoy 5.1 sound over DD/DTS, its awesome.


and while sound has gone down in the big name titles, overall its better. almost every game out there gives you 2.0, 4.0 and 5.1 sound on even the cheapest onboard audio. thats a big plus over the old days where you needed specific hardware.