This is what happens when a tech forum discusses piracy. Saved for historical record.

[Kreij]

If you steal money, the money will no longer be in its original place. If I make a copy, the original is still there and someone else can purchase it and play it. So they still got their sale.

Just like running money though a photocopier, right? It's called it counterfeitting.
If that's okay I'm gonna be one rich person.

 

[erocker]

You think that example is any better ? I'm gonna stop right there.

Please read my example. I basically copied you word for word (replaced a couple) and it makes just as much sense.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Please read my example. I basically copied you word for word (replaced a couple) and it makes just as much sense.

Pirates don't understand how to work for a living. After all its not rape. Its surprise butt sex.

However they are masters at making excuses with massive holes of logic missing.

 

[qubit]

The problem is that while you can't pirate an online account, you can bypass the login. Just like the pirated versions of Minecraft do, and they recieve full updates just like a paid user.(Though I hear the update servers for Minecraft will be moving to the same authentications system the multiplayer uses.)



Correct, it is not stealing, it is piracy. The notion that every pirated copy is a lost sale is extremely flawed. Most people that pirate a game would never buy it. I pirated Crysis 2, but I'd never ever consider buying it because it is nothing more than another drab wattered down console port. Now if they made it a game that at least partially lived up to the original I might consider buying it, but no, they pushed out a giant turd. However, I paid for Minecraft, because it is actually good, and worth the money. The fact that he is charging a reasonable price helps too, he isn't another one of the big name game developers that charge $60 for the same old recycled console garbage we're used to seeing.

Ahmen, brother. The bold bit, especially.

No one says they are stealing the original. They say they are stealing the copy why is this always the main argument.:shadedshu

By definition a copy is not theft, because the creator still has the original. This is a really painfully elementary error in logic. Of course, Big Effin Media intentionally get this wrong in order to push their corruption onto us and get laws drafted (ACTA, COICA etc) to support their greed. Shit, take two of these Big Media:

Well worth reading: www.techdirt.com www.p2pnet.net

 

[garyinhere]

Ahmen, brother. The bold bit, especially.

it's flawed because they wouldn't buy it but will steal it? how is that logic. That's a retard explaining why they shit their pants

 

[newtekie1]

Ah ok. So I guess game making is free now too. Cool.

Who said that? And what does it matter? You are still missing the concept that most pirated copies are not lost sales. The pirate would never buy the game if they couldn't pirate it. So the cost to develope the game doesn't have an effect on piracy not being stealing. However, if you offer a good value, the game will likely sell in much larger volumes than if you offer a shitty value. Which is why Notch has made millions on his game, far more than he ever put into developement cost.

it's flawed because they wouldn't buy it but will steal it? how is that logic. That's a retard explaining why they shit their pants

Yes, exactly, they would pirate it for free, but wouldn't pay for it. I downloaded the entire Metalica library, I fucking hat Metalica, but I still pirated it. I would have never bought a single one of their CDs, or even gone to one of their concerts. Pirated will pirate something that is free just to do it, but they won't pay for the same thing if they have to.

You ever go to the grocery store on sample day? You ever noticed how people will take the sample, but most never even consider actually buying the product? Same logic. People will take it when it is free, even if they only marginally want it, but never intend to pay for it.

 

[cdawall]

Pirates don't understand how to work for a living. After all its not rape. Its surprise butt sex.

However they are masters at making excuses with massive holes of logic missing.

i work for a living so do a bunch of people who pirate terrible assumption.

 

[Benetanegia]

Your right! Bad example... I'll go into your house when it's not locked and your not home... I will copy naked pictures of your woman and distribute them. That is not theft! I like your logic

Of course it's not theft. It's burglary and invasion of privacy, which are crimes on their own. But it's not theft.

Pirates do none of that. Piracy is not theft.

The other example is just as flawed. Copying money is not a crime, using and distributing it is. The act of couterfeiting implies the distribution and replacemant of real money. So you can create as many copies of money as you want as long as you keep it at home and don't try to use it as real money. If that makes you feel the richest man in the world... congrats!

 

[erocker]

Of course it's not theft. It's burglary and invasion of privacy, which are crimes on their own. But it's not theft.

Pirates do none of that. Piracy is not theft.

The other example is just as flawed. Copying money is not a crime, using and distributing it is. The act of couterfeiting implies the distribution and replacemant of real money. So you can create as many copies of money as you want as long as you keep it at home and don't try to use it as real money. If that makes you feel the richest man in the world... congrats!

In my country even copying it is illegal, but you make a good point.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Who said that? And what does it matter? You are still missing the concept that most pirated copies are not lost sales. The pirate would never buy the game if they couldn't pirate it. So the cost to develope the game doesn't have an effect on piracy not being stealing. However, if you offer a good value, the game will likely sell in much larger volumes than if you offer a shitty value. Which is why Notch has made millions on his game, far more than he ever put into developement cost.

Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.

Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?

I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.

 

[qubit]

Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.

Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?

I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.

No, no and no! But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.

 

[TheMailMan78]

No, no and no! But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.

Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.

 

[erocker]

Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.

Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?

I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.

No, no and no! But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.

Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy. It's no better than being a thief, if anything it's worse as these people actually feel entitled to taking these game "copies" that some people spent a greater portion of their lives working on to sell to make a living. What does that make them really, I'm not going to judge others. I don't think it's right but that's just me so I don't do it. You're perfectly free to think of pirates as theives, but technically they are classified as something else regardless of how similar they are.

 

[qubit]

Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.

Shit, this could be the punch and judy show.

I say no!!

Come on, your turn.

 

[DannibusX]

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

 

[newtekie1]

Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

Yes, but I've already explained why that logic is flawed. The game sold poorly because it is a piece of crap, not because pirates pirated it. If piracy was at fault indie games would never make a profit, neither would any of the big name titles that make huge profits.

You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.

Which one of us is a pirate? Guess which one knows why pirates pirate, and if they ever intend to buy the game.

Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

Doesn't matter if that person would have never bought it anyway. I'm not out anything.

What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?

I don't pay them, my insurance company does, and if I had to pay my own medical bills, I'd never go to the doctor. And if I absolutely had to go or I'd die, I'd probably never pay the bill, just like millions of people do. Of course, if they didn't try to charge me $30 for an asprin, and were actually reasonable, I would be more inclined to pay them. Actually, this example is a perfect example in my favor, thanks.

I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.

I'll admit I'm a pirate, but without any monetary loss on the developers side, I'm not a theif. They are no worse off because I pirated a their game.

 

[Easy Rhino]

I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers.

that's exactly it. it creates moral hazard. why should i pay $60 for the game when joe blow pirater gets to play for free.

 

[entropy13]

How wonderful, another piracy thread. Perhaps someone can start a PhysX sucks thread and an ATi drivers suck thread as well.



How about printing my own counterfeit money? I mean, i'm just copying something without physically taking it right?



Expanding on my point above, I don't see how counterfeiters could be potential people working for their money since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to use real money to buy goods and services at all... I guess the major concern is that they are printing free money to pay for goods and services which in turn makes it unfair for everyone willing to work, get paid and buy their own shit.

Right. So the counterfeit is 100% the same as the real money? LOL

In many cases of games the "pirated" copy works even better than the "original." Which is the 100% now, the pirated copy or the original?

 

[erocker]

that's exactly it. it creates moral hazard. why should i pay $60 for the game when joe blow pirater gets to play for free.

Maybe if joe blow pirater got a heafty fine, or he got blacklisted by ISP's and couldn't have good internet at home anymore it would make people think twice. Honestly, the only reason most people actually pirate at this time is because there's almost zero chance they'll get caught doing it.

Right. So the counterfeit is 100% the same as the real money? LOL

In many cases of games the "pirated" copy works even better than the "original." Which is the 100% now, the pirated copy or the original?

As far as my theory goes, the bills are perfect copies. You bring no real argument to my point.

 

[qubit]

Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy. It's no better than being a thief, if anything it's worse as these people actually feel entitled to taking these game "copies" that some people spent a greater portion of their lives working on to sell to make a living. What does that make them really, I'm not going to judge others. I don't think it's right but that's just me so I don't do it.

There's certainly a moral argument about making that copy, because it might feel wrong to make a copy of something that someone worked hard over. However, that doesn't at all equate to lost sales, as we all know. Heck, it even does lead to increases in sales if the product is any good.

I also detest the implied assumption, that if one couldn't pirate, then they might buy that copy of a song/film/game/qubit's awesome virtual products(tm)/whatever and then discover that they didn't like it and be stuck with it. What right does the producer have to make money by fooling the punter into buying substandard shit?

 

[Phxprovost]

Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why.

Thats amusing with you talking about logic holes and then you post something like this. If piracy is really the bane of the industry and is responsible for a game being successful or not that then how would one explain COD? A game that is pirated to hell and back yet somehow....manages to rake in BILLIONS with each release.... ?

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

There's some truth to the "they wouldn't buy it anyways" idea, but the keyword is some. There's some that would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. However I don't think the number is actually that large. I can tell you I am very reluctant to buy 360 games, even ones I know I'd probably like. It's just so much money. I've had a 360 since launch but I only have 6 games. You could equate this argument to the used games argument. Many of the used game buyers would simply not buy as many games if they had to pay full price. The developers/publishers aren't losing nearly as many sales as they like to think.

 

[erocker]

I also detest the implied assumption, that if one couldn't pirate, then they might buy that copy of a song/film/game/qubit's awesome virtual products(tm)/whatever and then discover that they didn't like it and be stuck with it. What right does the producer have to make money by fooling the punter into buying substandard shit?

If I made some software with the intention to sell, I would detest the people who take it for nothing. If I had a means to catch them, I would go after them financially. Buying substandard shit has been the way of the world since we used beads and shells as currency. You're making excuses, not a viable argument.

 

[Mr McC]

Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.

We've been over this before. It's not simply a question of viewing the two terms as synonyms, which admittedly is both commonplace and understandable: there is not a single body of legislation, anywhere in the world, where they are not classifed as separate offences and sanctioned as separate offences. Them are the facts and the only facts that matter.

 

[cdawall]

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