How To Connect Amplifier To Receiver?

[m4gicfour]

Monoprice's cables are quite high quality, at least all the ones I've gotten from them are. Make sure you get one that's long enough, and the longer it is, the beefier you want it to be. The signal from the SUB Pre-Out on the receiver to the Self-amplified subwoofer is analog and it's not at amplified levels, so it can pick up interference if you use a really crappy cable, but I would think that the monoprice ones are plenty good enough.

Going to bed now, good luck

 

[slyfox2151]

yes either cable looks fine.

 

[blaznee]

So I've been reading through this and I'm confused as to what the final goal is..

Do you want a good system for Stereo playback, or do you want to end up with a good system for surround. Getting something that does both well can get mightily expensive.

The receiver you picked is sort of middle of the road, and the speakers are touching the lower end pricerange of high end bookshelfs.. And from what I'm seeing they would do poorly in a surround setup. You need clear detail at all soundlevels and the ability to match the fronts with a proper centerspeaker.. The Polks simply don't apply IMO..

IF you want to go for the surround setup but don't have the cash for a full 5.1 setup from the get go. Make sure you get fronts and center you like, and get any 2 old surroundspeakers (go used if you have to).. You will get a lot of the enjoyment from surround at a fraction of the price. And since you're a beginner you will get plenty of enjoyment from that until you can afford the real surrounds.

If you're mostly into stereo I suggest looking up the local HiFi geek forums, they usually have a buy/sell forum.. You will be surprised with the equipment that is suddenly in your pricerange, and a kick ass stereoamp that is 10 years old often play the pants out of middle-of-the-range modern stuff.. Don't be surprised to find Mark Levinson monoblocks and Sunfire surround pre-amps within your budget suddenly..

Lastly - a good tip for getting a good surround setup is going to a proper demonstration store. Have them setup a few systems that they can switchbetween as fast as posssible. So you really hear the difference.. Listen for sound positioning in space and general ambience.. A bad system will sound like a wall of sound arround you, a good system will have the sounds exist in a 3d space around you.. It will not sound like it's eminating from the speakers, but actually exist in the room itself..

The very best systems for that are crazy expensive, but I promise you you will go "whaaaaaat" when you get them demoed .. The system to beat for me is still a Lexicon pre-amp, Bryston Amp and M&K 150 speaker system..

 

[BumbleBee]

I told him to look on Audiogon but he doesn't want second hand.

 

[slyfox2151]

second hand is DEFIANTLY the way to go for speakers, i scored my system for $600.... its $1400 brand new, works perfectly.

speakers last a very long time and dont become obsolete like computer hardware does, i will likely be able to resell this system for $700-$750 when the time comes to upgrade again. i will have made a profit

 

[BumbleBee]

I tried to explain it to him. the older speakers get the better they sound and some people look for older speakers that were made outside of China so there is a second hand market.

 

[techguy31]

So I've been reading through this and I'm confused as to what the final goal is..

Do you want a good system for Stereo playback, or do you want to end up with a good system for surround. Getting something that does both well can get mightily expensive.

The receiver you picked is sort of middle of the road, and the speakers are touching the lower end pricerange of high end bookshelfs.. And from what I'm seeing they would do poorly in a surround setup. You need clear detail at all soundlevels and the ability to match the fronts with a proper centerspeaker.. The Polks simply don't apply IMO..

IF you want to go for the surround setup but don't have the cash for a full 5.1 setup from the get go. Make sure you get fronts and center you like, and get any 2 old surroundspeakers (go used if you have to).. You will get a lot of the enjoyment from surround at a fraction of the price. And since you're a beginner you will get plenty of enjoyment from that until you can afford the real surrounds.

If you're mostly into stereo I suggest looking up the local HiFi geek forums, they usually have a buy/sell forum.. You will be surprised with the equipment that is suddenly in your pricerange, and a kick ass stereoamp that is 10 years old often play the pants out of middle-of-the-range modern stuff.. Don't be surprised to find Mark Levinson monoblocks and Sunfire surround pre-amps within your budget suddenly..

Lastly - a good tip for getting a good surround setup is going to a proper demonstration store. Have them setup a few systems that they can switchbetween as fast as posssible. So you really hear the difference.. Listen for sound positioning in space and general ambience.. A bad system will sound like a wall of sound arround you, a good system will have the sounds exist in a 3d space around you.. It will not sound like it's eminating from the speakers, but actually exist in the room itself..

The very best systems for that are crazy expensive, but I promise you you will go "whaaaaaat" when you get them demoed .. The system to beat for me is still a Lexicon pre-amp, Bryston Amp and M&K 150 speaker system..

Well the ultimate goal is to be able to listen to music as well as play surround sound movies. What would you suggest then for surround sound as well as stereo. Because I have been trying to find the best speakers for my setup. As for stereo amps I am probably just going to stay away from it as I just want a simple receiver to be my main source to control the volume and everything else and have a pc to be able to play the movies.
I did find a JBL L830 bookshelf speakers that had great reviews for surround and music, but I was hesitant about the quality.

Questions
1. Why don't you think that the B&W 685s are not good for surround?
2. If I get the Yamaha receiver (YPAO) or Onkyo receiever (Audessey) wouldn't those equalizer equalize the speakers until it matches?
3. What receiver would you recommend then?

 

[twilyth]

Well the ultimate goal is to be able to listen to music as well as play surround sound movies. What would you suggest then for surround sound as well as stereo. Because I have been trying to find the best speakers for my setup. As for stereo amps I am probably just going to stay away from it as I just want a simple receiver to be my main source to control the volume and everything else and have a pc to be able to play the movies.
I did find a JBL L830 bookshelf speakers that had great reviews for surround and music, but I was hesitant about the quality.

Questions
1. Why don't you think that the B&W 685s are not good for surround?
2. If I get the Yamaha receiver (YPAO) or Onkyo receiever (Audessey) wouldn't those equalizer equalize the speakers until it matches?
3. What receiver would you recommend then?

Yamaha receivers come with a microphone that you use with the internal software to automatically set up your speakers. You just have to tell it first what size the speakers are, but I think even that is optional.

The Yamahas will also give you the option to expand a stereo audio source to full 7.1 surround, as well as a couple of other options. It has an EQ but you have to set it through the software using the remote and an onscreen display. You can also do it with just the panel display, but the OSD is easier.

Any of the Yamaha RX line of receivers should be good for your purposes although if you don't need as much power and sophistication, you can get away with something from the HTR line.

If you're going to pipe music and video from your pc, use the HDMI pass through - my HTR receiver has 4 HDMI inputs and one output. I have it connected to one of the DVI ports on my HTPC with other one going to a monitor. They're set up so the desktop spans the 2 displays - and it works perfectly, even though the HDTV is an old 50" Sony.

 

[slyfox2151]

i would spend the most on the Front 2 speakers and Receiver/amp followed by a matched center, you can cheap out on the surrounds to start with and get a sub-woofer latter on if you need more low end.


i would focus on Music first and movies second... but just me, movies are both an audio and video experience depending on the genre. if your watching drama movies you really dont need high end audio lets be honest.

Music is 100% audio experience. this is why i focus here first.




buy separate components as well, HTIB are often a bad choice.

 

[AsRock]

I absolutely agree with you that I am going OVERKILL with this build; however, I do not want to regret it like before (buying the Logitech Z-5500, thinking that it would be the best for watching movies and listening to music). I could have saved the $350 and added to this setup and I would have no problem of finishing this setup by this week. But I have to wait about another week until I could finish the first part of my build (which is the Home Theater parts, not the computer).

As far as speakers, I have opted to solely look at 8ohm rated speakers to reduce more things that I will have to buy. Well, I believe after all the questions I have asked, I could build this rig without any problems.

Final Speakers Build:
Front: B&W 685
Center: (will update once I have enough money)
Surround: (will update once I have enough money)
Sub: Polk Audio PSW505
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609 or Onkyo HT-RC260 (so I could bi-amp)

Thanks all for the help.

You might find that you can only bi amp the front speakers and if you do you might lose the front wide\ front high or limit how many rear speakers you can have.

So check ONKYO's site for the manual and make sure it has what you need. All so i remember reading in the manual for mine that 6-8 ohm.

And if you like your bass to fill the room make sure you get some nice front ported speakers. All so be aware of speakers that you have not heard or cannot return if your not happy with them too.

BTW polks are kinda forward sounding so shits in ya face.

 

[slyfox2151]

i would not bother with bi-amping.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/56058-bi-amping-bi-wiring-research-material.html



its effectively useless unless your planning on spending Big bucks( over $3000 ) for a very tiny tiny difference if any.

 

[AsRock]

i would not bother with bi-amping.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/56058-bi-amping-bi-wiring-research-material.html


its effectively useless unless your planning on spending Big bucks( over $3000 ) for a very tiny tiny difference if any.

+2

yup even going for 7.1 is more worth it than bi amping speakers and that's not really worth it as most stuff is 5.1

I do wish more companys did the good old 8" woofer style speakers and less of this crappy 5 1/4 BS.

 

[timta2]

Yamaha receivers come with a microphone that you use with the internal software to automatically set up your speakers. You just have to tell it first what size the speakers are, but I think even that is optional.

And I just would like to point out that usually the results are inaccurate and poor. It's a nice idea but it just don't work well in the real world. Sometimes it's like the mic is hearing impaired. You still have to go back in and make changes to everything if you want it to sound right. That goes for all manufactures that use this technology. "Left front speaker -5db, WTF?"


I would also suggest going out and listening to speakers and equipment before buying. Don't rely on someone else's opinion. You could probably get a thousand opinions of Polk and B&W here, but the only one that really matters is yours.

 

[twilyth]

And I just would like to point out that usually the results are inaccurate and poor. It's a nice idea but it just don't work well in the real world. Sometimes it's like the mic is hearing impaired. You still have to go back in and make changes to everything if you want it to sound right. That goes for all manufactures that use this technology. "Left front speaker -5db, WTF?"


I would also suggest going out and listening to speakers and equipment before buying. Don't rely on someone else's opinion. You could probably get a thousand opinions of Polk and B&W here, but the only one that really matters is yours.

Good point. I had a couple WTF moments to. But at least it gave a baseline to start from. For some reason, that made me feel more confident about making adjustments. {shrug}

 

[m4gicfour]

And I just would like to point out that usually the results are inaccurate and poor. It's a nice idea but it just don't work well in the real world. Sometimes it's like the mic is hearing impaired. You still have to go back in and make changes to everything if you want it to sound right. That goes for all manufactures that use this technology. "Left front speaker -5db, WTF?"

This was true with the first generation systems which used puck-style mics, that weren't very accurate. The newer generation receivers which come with "Steeple" mics do much better. You can not, however, use the newer style mic with the older receivers Link

It's also extremely important to follow directions to the letter. ANY ambient noise during calibration can throw it off, and the more sample positions you do, the more accurate the calibration becomes.

 

[techguy31]

So I've been reading through this and I'm confused as to what the final goal is..

Do you want a good system for Stereo playback, or do you want to end up with a good system for surround. Getting something that does both well can get mightily expensive.

The receiver you picked is sort of middle of the road, and the speakers are touching the lower end pricerange of high end bookshelfs.. And from what I'm seeing they would do poorly in a surround setup. You need clear detail at all soundlevels and the ability to match the fronts with a proper centerspeaker.. The Polks simply don't apply IMO..

IF you want to go for the surround setup but don't have the cash for a full 5.1 setup from the get go. Make sure you get fronts and center you like, and get any 2 old surroundspeakers (go used if you have to).. You will get a lot of the enjoyment from surround at a fraction of the price. And since you're a beginner you will get plenty of enjoyment from that until you can afford the real surrounds.

If you're mostly into stereo I suggest looking up the local HiFi geek forums, they usually have a buy/sell forum.. You will be surprised with the equipment that is suddenly in your pricerange, and a kick ass stereoamp that is 10 years old often play the pants out of middle-of-the-range modern stuff.. Don't be surprised to find Mark Levinson monoblocks and Sunfire surround pre-amps within your budget suddenly..

Lastly - a good tip for getting a good surround setup is going to a proper demonstration store. Have them setup a few systems that they can switchbetween as fast as posssible. So you really hear the difference.. Listen for sound positioning in space and general ambience.. A bad system will sound like a wall of sound arround you, a good system will have the sounds exist in a 3d space around you.. It will not sound like it's eminating from the speakers, but actually exist in the room itself..

The very best systems for that are crazy expensive, but I promise you you will go "whaaaaaat" when you get them demoed .. The system to beat for me is still a Lexicon pre-amp, Bryston Amp and M&K 150 speaker system..

Well I basically since I do listen to music alot, it is better to have the B&W as front because they are great for music. As far as movies, I believe that I have read they are good. Since mp3's and lossless files, I believe are stereo (correct me if lossless files are not stereo) then wouldn't the B&W 685 simply be the best choice as of right now and what would bookshelf speakers would you suggest that are good for movies as fronts and bookshelf speakers for surrounds? When ou said that the "Polk simply don't apply IMO" did you mean the Polk PSW505? I just need a sub that will deliver the low that the B&W are unable to do.

 

[slyfox2151]

Well I basically since I do listen to music alot, it is better to have the B&W as front because they are great for music. As far as movies, I believe that I have read they are good. Since mp3's and lossless files, I believe are stereo (correct me if lossless files are not stereo) then wouldn't the B&W 685 simply be the best choice as of right now and what would bookshelf speakers would you suggest that are good for movies as fronts and bookshelf speakers for surrounds? When ou said that the "Polk simply don't apply IMO" did you mean the Polk PSW505? I just need a sub that will deliver the low that the B&W are unable to do.

yes, lossless is just the sound quality, it does not change weather its Mono, Stereo 5.1 or 13.1

most music is likely to be in Stereo. you can upmix it using receivers with Dolby pro logic and such but i do not use it as i think it sounds like crap.

 

[CJCerny]

I'm gonna chime in here because I've owned home theaters that had over $10k+ worth of speakers (Paradigm Reference series) and home theaters that used only $300 (Energy Take 5 Classics 5.1) worth of speakers, so I've been at both extremes.

My advice is to start small and then upgrade as necessary. There is nothing embarassing about owning a $200 receiver like an Onkyo 509 and a $300 set of speakers like the Energy Take 5 Classic. This $500 system comes within 80-90% of what a $10k system can do. Buying expensive speakers is a waste of money unless you are able to audition them in person and are able to afford the upscale amplification that it takes to drive them and have the freedom and flexibility to build a room with sound dampening material around them. Buying expensive speakers and thinking that they will be magical without being able to do the other things that it takes to make them sing is like buying a Corvette but only being able to drive it on very congested roads--you're just much better off with a Geo Metro unless you really have the ability to go all out. The part you have to get over is mental health issue of thinking that a $500 speaker automatically sounds better than a $50 speaker. That isn't anyways the case, especially when you consider that amplification and environment play a huge role in that.

 

[BumbleBee]

I'm gonna chime in here because I've owned home theaters that had over $10k+ worth of speakers (Paradigm Reference series) and home theaters that used only $300 (Energy Take 5 Classics 5.1) worth of speakers, so I've been at both extremes.

My advice is to start small and then upgrade as necessary. There is nothing embarassing about owning a $200 receiver like an Onkyo 509 and a $300 set of speakers like the Energy Take 5 Classic. This $500 system comes within 80-90% of what a $10k system can do. Buying expensive speakers is a waste of money unless you are able to audition them in person and are able to afford the upscale amplification that it takes to drive them and have the freedom and flexibility to build a room with sound dampening material around them. Buying expensive speakers and thinking that they will be magical without being able to do the other things that it takes to make them sing is like buying a Corvette but only being able to drive it on very congested roads--you're just much better off with a Geo Metro unless you really have the ability to go all out. The part you have to get over is mental health issue of thinking that a $500 speaker automatically sounds better than a $50 speaker. That isn't anyways the case, especially when you consider that amplification and environment play a huge role in that.

already tried..

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2321125&postcount=7

 

[Dent1]

Well I basically since I do listen to music alot, it is better to have the B&W as front because they are great for music. As far as movies, I believe that I have read they are good. Since mp3's and lossless files, I believe are stereo (correct me if lossless files are not stereo) then wouldn't the B&W 685 simply be the best choice as of right now and what would bookshelf speakers would you suggest that are good for movies as fronts and bookshelf speakers for surrounds? When ou said that the "Polk simply don't apply IMO" did you mean the Polk PSW505? I just need a sub that will deliver the low that the B&W are unable to do.

It depends what you're after, yes MP3s are generally stereo, are you happy with that? It can be converted to DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 bitstreams using your HT Claro Plus using it's Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect feature.

However, if you're using your video card for audio, MP3s will be stereo which is fine if that's what you're after.

The B&W 685 looks good, definitely quality speakers. I would go for "floor standing" speakers as they tend to fill a room better IMO for stereo sources. Cheaper and lowend floor standing speakers typically sound better than high end bookshelf speakers, usually due to increased woofer and tweeter size and quantity. I would recommend getting bookshelves for the rears and/or side sourrounds and floor standing for the front.

Thanks for your input, it helped me alot.

Well, I have done some research and have recently learned more about speakers and I have opted for bookshelf speakers.

Here's my setup home theater setup:
1. Yamaha RX-V467 5.1 Receiver
2. Klipsch RB-51 ii (front)
3. Klipsch RB-41 ii (rear)
4. Klipsch RC-52 (center)
5. Polk Audio PSW505 (sub)

Here's my HTPC setup:
1. AsRock Extreme4
2. Intel i5 2500 (Should I spend another $10 for the 2500k, I do not plan to play games or overclock, but would you spend and extra $10?)
3. Crucial C300 128GB
4. 16GB Kingston 1600mhz (snatched these for around $125 including a $50 rebate)
Salvaged Parts:
4. 2TB Samsung Spinpoint F4, 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3, 640GB Caviar Blue (all as storage)
5. Corsair 650HX

Questions:
1. I have opted not get a sound card at all, as I am going to use my ATI 5670 as my audio and video source. So my question is, is this a good idea?
2. The SSD I am going to get has trim support, but it says w/ ATA-8, what is that, and does my motherboard have ATA-8, I can't seem to find it on newegg.com nor ASRock's site. I believe I enabled trim on my old computer rig fairly easily and it said it supported trim without the "ATA-8" thing.
3. Do you think the motherboard I am getting is too much for what I am using it for? I plan to watch movies and listen to music only? I searched for other motherboard but, I am pretty sure they don't support the ATA-8, which means the SSD I will get will not have trim support.
4. If I may ask and not be annoying, what is your setup, I just want to know before I build my HTPC.


Thanks Alot for the help..

1.) You sort of already got a surround soundcard .i.e. HT Claro
2.) I'm not the best person to ask about SSD
3.) For music and movies, the motherboard is overkill. All you need is a low end basic board. Saying that the board is still solid and I'd keep it.
4.) Athlon II X4 620 2.6GHz @ 3.4GHz, 4GB DDR3 1600MHz @ 1800Mhz, Crossfire 4850's OC'd, ASUS M4785TD-V EVO, Auzentech X-Fi Forte, Pioneer VSX-516 receiver, KEF Cresta 20c center speaker, KEF Cresta 2 SP3303 front speaker. Not using any rear speakers ATM.

And yes I'd spend the extra $10 for the 2500k, even if you won't OC it's nice to have the option.

 

[m4gicfour]

It depends what you're after, yes MP3s are generally stereo, are you happy with that? It can be converted to DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 bitstreams using your HT Claro Plus using it's Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect feature.

However, if you're using your video card for audio, MP3s will be stereo which is fine if that's what you're after.

The Onkyo receivers have "all stereo" mode which plays the left channel on left-front and left-surrounds, and right channel likewise. It's not true 5.1/7.1, it's just stereo on all speakers (Hence the name). Upmixing via DDL/DTS connect generally does not much more than this anyway, it doesn't create true 5.1/7.1 either - it just fakes it so it sounds like it is, and if you leave it on with true 5.1 it destroys the true positional audio.

If you want to use all your speakers with stereo media, you can use this feature of the Onkyo (or if you get a receiver without such a feature, the freeware Media Player Classic HomeCinema can do this - and a lot more - with software)

 

[Dent1]

The Onkyo receivers have "all stereo" mode which plays the left channel on left-front and left-surrounds, and right channel likewise. It's not true 5.1/7.1, it's just stereo on all speakers (Hence the name). Upmixing via DDL/DTS connect generally does not much more than this anyway, it doesn't create true 5.1/7.1 either - it just fakes it so it sounds like it is, and if you leave it on with true 5.1 it destroys the true positional audio.

"All stereo" basically mirrors the sound, so it's sort stereo quadrophonic. Really depends how you like your music but I don't like the voices in the rears.

Slightly different from DDL/DTS connect. although it doesn't create channels, it still converts stereo into the DD/DTs bitstream and automatically applies Prologic IIx and DTS Neo in real-time ontop. Which is a closer implementation of surround, effects in the rears and fronts, and voices in the center.

Then again Prologic IIx and DTS NEO can be applied on the Onkyo itself.

Since the OP isn't gaming, the only advantage of DDL + DTS connect is for those file formats (audio/movies) which already have 5 or more decrete channels. It's easy to find movies on torrents with numerous channels, but audio is somewhat difficult to source.

 

[m4gicfour]

It's all about options. Like you, some prefer the Neo/prologic way of doing things, some don't. Each method has its pros and cons. What's important is knowing when to use each, and what the downfalls of each is.

For example, with Neo/prologic, sometimes with poor quality source files or poor implementations of the tech, it creates artifacts when trying to remove the voice from the surround channels. In those cases it actually is quite a bit worse quality than playing 2.0

For people like you, who prefer the Neo/Prologic way of filling channels, when those artifacts occur it's a simple matter of choosing not to use it, and playing it with 2 speakers only. Like I say, the important part is being educated on what each of these things do, so when the tech doesn't work like it should, you know how to correct it or at least work around it.

Having higher quality source files (FLAC or some such), regardless of how many channels are present, can actually prevent many of these sorts of issues, since the noise floor is much lower, and the actual sound data is much more precise for the receiver/sound device to work with

As far as the DDL/DTS Connect, I believe he had decided to use HDMI, so that's really a non-issue as the data will be sent LPCM without the need for compression. However, if he opts to use SPDIF then the encoding would be important.

 

[BumbleBee]

I think he is interested in rear channels that are bipole or dipole instead of monopole so music should be played in 2.0 otherwise the rear channels will destroy the image.

 

[hblackheart]

You are not crazy. Onkyo newer recievers click and loud when changing. I read this recently at the polk audio forums. Unfortunatly I can not remember the tecnical reason exactly other than it has something to do with the specific high end parts it is using. It is quite anoying and putting me off buying an onkyo to drive some rti-12's.
Look for some used gear at Canuckaudiomart.com. You will save a lot of coin.
I have a paradigm 270 v.3 for a center channel. This alone made a huge difference. Picked it up used for under a hundred.
And to answer one of your questions as well as my own... lol... ripped from a post at blu-ray forums from sj001 (This may solve your uncle's problems or reduce them.. Seems to work for many folks with Onkyo receivers)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onkyo TX-SR-605: For those having "clicking" noise issues

I noticed a lot of people posting that they are having problems with this, myself included. Well, I figured the issue out. It wasn't a firmware or hardware defect. It was just some simple settings.

It has to do with the default Listening Mode preset, which is "previous used" or something. This seems to be especially problematic with the PS3.

If you go into setup, and to listening modes, and find you input that you are using, and switch it from the default to "direct" on all of them, the clicking issue will be gone!