RealTemp General Discussion

[unclewebb]

A knowledgeable person on Tom's Hardware told me a long time ago that the Core 2 based CPUs contain a separate temperature sensor embedded in the center of the CPU. I used to always think the CPU temperature data that software reports was coming from a sensor in the socket.

Wherever that sensor is, some motherboard manufacturers may have calibrated it based on inaccurate data coming from the core sensors. In situations where this is true, that temperature data might not be accurate so trying to compare to it could be pointless.

I've got a board where this sensor can show over 105C when the core sensors are still just under 100C. If the core sensors are located on the hottest spots on the core then that's impossible. If this data was accurate, this other sensor should be reporting ~20C less than the peak core temperature when the CPU is fully loaded. Heat dissipates very rapidly over a short distance at full load.

I find the resume from stand by temperature over night and comparing that to the room temperature works best.

 

[Luciddream]

hi there. i want to say thanks for such a great software and ask something... i've been searching all around to find the actual TjMax for a Q6600... just for knowledge purposes and i haven't found an accurate answer anywhere... i've read here: http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php that rge has done some testings but i cant find the post/topic...
also on the changelog i can only find: on version 3.00 TJMax updated based on new Intel documentation and further testing.

id love to see that testing if its available, thanks

also, can u help me calibrate sensors?? (thats on 3.6 on air on a Greek summer...)

 

[unclewebb]

My best guess at TJMax for the Q6600 is 100C for the G0 stepping and 90C for the original B3 stepping. TJMax is not a fixed number. There is some variation from core to core and from CPU to CPU of the exact same model and exact same stepping. Intel has never released what TJMax is for these early CPUs or how much variation there is in these sensors.

On the 65nm Quads like you have, I believe TJMax might be on average 5C higher on core 2 and core 3 compared to core 0 and core 1. On the 45nm Core 2 Quads, this difference can approach 10C.

There is so much unknown and so much variation in these sensors from one CPU to the next that I gave up on calibrating them. If you want your core temps to line up a little better you could try adjusting TJMax so it looks like this.

100, 103, 105, 105

100% accurate temperatures from idle to TJMax are not possible since these sensors were never designed for that purpose. As long as your CPU is stable and it is not thermal throttling then everything is OK.

 

[Luciddream]

My best guess at TJMax for the Q6600 is 100C for the G0 stepping and 90C for the original B3 stepping. TJMax is not a fixed number. There is some variation from core to core and from CPU to CPU of the exact same model and exact same stepping. Intel has never released what TJMax is for these early CPUs or how much variation there is in these sensors.

On the 65nm Quads like you have, I believe TJMax might be on average 5C higher on core 2 and core 3 compared to core 0 and core 1. On the 45nm Core 2 Quads, this difference can approach 10C.

There is so much unknown and so much variation in these sensors from one CPU to the next that I gave up on calibrating them. If you want your core temps to line up a little better you could try adjusting TJMax so it looks like this.

100, 103, 105, 105

100% accurate temperatures from idle to TJMax are not possible since these sensors were never designed for that purpose. As long as your CPU is stable and it is not thermal throttling then everything is OK.

ok thanks for quick reply

 

[dapetcard]

hi unclewebb

i just found your software and it looks great

here is my screenshot, what can u tell me with this screenshoot, can you help me to calibrate it? or what i have to do with my laptop?

thanks

 

[unclewebb]

The LOG word in the Thermal Status area for your first two cores shows that your CPU overheats and has reached the thermal throttling point during the full load sensor test. That's not good. The calibration is close enough that I wouldn't worry about that.

I'm not sure what laptop you are using or if the Q9000 was originally installed. Some users add Quad core CPUs from EBay to their laptops but their original heatsink was only designed for a Core 2 Duo. The orientation of the cores is different so this can cause cooling problems. Many laptops have barely adequate cooling solutions from the factory while others are overdue for a thorough cleaning. Removing the CPU heatsink and fan and redoing the thermal paste is also a good idea on any laptop that is running hot.

Another option is to use my other program called ThrottleStop which is more designed for laptops. With a Q9000, you can use ThrottleStop to decrease the CPU core voltage which can improve your full load CPU temperatures. That can also increase your battery run time too.

ThrottleStop 3.00
http://www.techinferno.com/downloads/?did=1

When decreasing voltage, make sure you don't go too far or you can lose stability. Some Q9000 CPUs can run 100% reliably with 1.05 volts. Your best bet is to start with a good cleaning.

 

[dapetcard]

thanks unclewebb

i'll try removing the dust first and clean the laptop

My laptop is Sager NP8600 and Q9000 was originally installed. Lately my laptop seems hot so i guess there's lots of dust

btw, you said 1,05 volts and i try throttlestop it is already 1,05 volts?

can u suggest me what thermal paste is good for laptop?

thanks again unclewebb

 

[unclewebb]

ICD7 seems to be the top rated thermal paste these days.

http://www.innovationcooling.com/

Arctic Silver 5 is OK and more readily available.

A voltage VID setting of 1.05 is usually the lowest value most mobile Core 2 Quads have available. What is the highest value that ThrottleStop lets you set? When not using ThrottleStop, when one core is loaded, it will use the highest Intel Dynamic Acceleration IDA voltage so setting it to 1.05 volts will help.

 

[burebista]

You can take a look at Arctic Cooling MX-4, Antec Formula 7, Prolimatech PK-1 beside good ol' trusty AS5.

 

[dapetcard]

i only get artic silver 5 and thermaltake tg-1

which is better?

thanks ^_^v

 

[RejZoR]

unclewebb, is there any chance you could add a trey diosplay of temperature the same way CoreTemp does?

I'm thinking of a single temperature icon that displays the highest temperature of all present cores.
At the moment if you don't want loads of icons in the treybar, you have to pick just 1 core which doesn't necessarely is the hottest one. However CoreTemp can also render 1 icon in the treybar, but if the core 4 is the hottest, temperature of that one will be displayed. If at next moment, Core 2 is the hottest out of 4 cores, temperature of that one will be displayed.
So this way you have a clean treybar, but you always know the actual highest temperature of the CPU (or shall we say the hottest of the cores). I like the CoreTemp way a bit more, because in RealTemp i now just have Core 1 enabled to be displayed in the treybar. But that's not always the actual highest temp. that see.

 

[unclewebb]

Hi RejZoR. I added that feature to RealTemp for you about 5 months ago. The link to the latest version with this feature is in the first post of this thread. It also includes VID and power consumption reporting for the Sandy Bridge CPUs.

RealTemp 3.67
http://www.mediafire.com/?n99nq4kn95u6i6a

 

[RejZoR]

Oh, i've downloaded the latest version from the TPU webpage which is 3.60... I'll try this one then.

 

[CryoGene]

Just a quick post to thank U for this soft. Work perfectly

 

[Systemlord]

Newbie needs a little help.

Hello fellow members,

I have been running my water cooling system for about a year now without incident and until now never had any fail-safes put in place to prevent the unthinkable! I have Real Temp.exe in my Startup Folder and it seems to be working except I do not know if I have it setup correctly. I have Start Minimized and Nvidia GPU checked, except when I check Fahrenheit / Celsius my computer shutdown almost immediately, does Real Temp default to Celsius or Fahrenheit? I do not understand what TJ Max is even after reading about it, CPU and GPU fail-safe setting are 60 but do not know if its Celsius or Fahrenheit...? I don't understand why Celsius or Fahrenheit are on the same check box as you can't have it both ways??

Thanks in advance, Systemlord.


Computer System:
CPU = Intel C2D E6600 @ 3.2GHz
MOBO = Asus P5E X38
GPU = EVGA GeForce GTX 480 @ 880MHz|1760MHz|4200MHz @ 1.125v
RAM = 2GB Crucial Ballistix Tracers
HDD = Raptor 150GB WD1500ADFD
PSU = Enermax Infinity 720W PSU
SC = X-Fi Fatality Pro
CASE = Silverstone TJ09
LCD = NEC MultiSync 1970GX 19"
OS = Windows XP SP3

Watercooling System:
CPU = EK Supreme HF Plexi/Nickel
GPU = EK FC-480 GTX Plexi/Nickel
RES = EK MultiOption X2 250 Advanced
PUMP = Laing DDC 3.25 18W w/EK X-Top V2
RAD = HWLabs GTX480 w/Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Fans
LIQUID = Distilled Water w/Petra's Pure Silver Killcoil

 

[unclewebb]

RealTemp is in Celsius by default. When you put a check mark in that box it will change to Fahrenheit.

 

[Systemlord]

RealTemp is in Celsius by default. When you put a check mark in that box it will change to Fahrenheit.

Do I need to set the TJ Max and if so how do I go about doing that? The idle temps for both CPU and GPU are quite accurate when compared to all the other programs.

Thanks

 

[unclewebb]

TJMax is the maximum temperature your CPU can reach before it starts thermal throttlilng. This is set by Intel at the factory. As long as software uses the same value as what Intel has set then that program will report reasonably accurate core temperatures for you.

RealTemp is the only program I know of that decided to use TJMax = 90C for the early Core 2 processors like your E6600. I ignored the competition which usually uses 85C for these processors. I did this based on my original testing of an E6400 as well as some hands on testing of an E6600. There is no reason to change this. You can change this in the Settings window if you want to but your reported temperatures will be less accurate.

 

[Systemlord]

TJMax is the maximum temperature your CPU can reach before it starts thermal throttlilng. This is set by Intel at the factory. As long as software uses the same value as what Intel has set then that program will report reasonably accurate core temperatures for you.

RealTemp is the only program I know of that decided to use TJMax = 90C for the early Core 2 processors like your E6600. I ignored the competition which usually uses 85C for these processors. I did this based on my original testing of an E6400 as well as some hands on testing of an E6600. There is no reason to change this. You can change this in the Settings window if you want to but your reported temperatures will be less accurate.

I think I'll leave it where it is for now (Alarm set @ 60C) since the temps are pretty darn accurate and that I could never stress my E6600 anywhere near 60C on my water cooling system, I would rather have Real Temp shutdown my computer earlier rather than later. Later tonight I'm going to lower the Alarm temps on the low side just for a test run, I have to be 100% sure everything is set right. I will report back after test run.

Thank you unclewebb for everything, Systemlord

 

[unclewebb]

It's pretty hard to hurt an Intel E6600 CPU. They are designed to run reliably right up to the TJMax temperature and will automatically throttle so they don't overheat. If that doesn't work, they automatically shut down. All of this technology is built into the processor itself.

I put my E8400 through the ringer to test out this technology and I was impressed. I cranked up the voltage and overclocked it 20% and then ran Prime95 to create some heat. Just to make things interesting, I disconnected my CPU fan to simulate a worst case failure.

How long do you think it lasted before it went Ka-Boom?

Quite a while actually. After 3 hours of torture, I got bored and stopped the insanity. It bounced off the thermal throttle the entire time and the CPU temperature flat lined. Prime95 kept on running with zero errors the entire time.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/276/hote8400fw5.png

The older 65nm CPUs like your E6600 are even more bullet proof.

I haven't played with the Alarm or Shutdown feature for quite a while. Hope it still works.

 

[Systemlord]

It's pretty hard to hurt an Intel E6600 CPU. They are designed to run reliably right up to the TJMax temperature and will automatically throttle so they don't overheat. If that doesn't work, they automatically shut down. All of this technology is built into the processor itself.

I put my E8400 through the ringer to test out this technology and I was impressed. I cranked up the voltage and overclocked it 20% and then ran Prime95 to create some heat. Just to make things interesting, I disconnected my CPU fan to simulate a worst case failure.

How long do you think it lasted before it went Ka-Boom?

Quite a while actually. After 3 hours of torture, I got bored and stopped the insanity. It bounced off the thermal throttle the entire time and the CPU temperature flat lined. Prime95 kept on running with zero errors the entire time.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/276/hote8400fw5.png

The older 65nm CPUs like your E6600 are even more bullet proof.

I haven't played with the Alarm or Shutdown feature for quite a while. Hope it still works.

Wow indeed bullet proof, I'm more concerned about my Tygon tubings maximum operating temperatures, at 74C (165F) the tubing starts to fail taking the entire computer with it! My graphics card starts throttling at 110-115C which would be disastrous, my GPU would melt the tubing long before it reached its throttling point. It seems as Intel shrinks their die size the CPUs become much more sensitive to temperatures and Vcore settings. I wish graphics card manufacturers would allow for adjustable throttling settings, in just a year operating temps have more than doubled from a healthy 60-80C (80C being considered on the high side) well past 100C which was at one time considered crazy!

 

[Mussels]

even if your GPU is 110C, its not like the coolant in your water loop is also 110C. the further from the GPU, the cooler it gets - so your tubing wont get as hot as you fear.

 

[Systemlord]

Excellent, I performed a test on my GTX 480 graphics card a few minutes ago while lowering the alarm temp to 47C so I wouldn't have to wait long and like clockwork Real Temp shutdown my computer quite a bit faster than I thought it would! ~ Real Temp didn't shutdown at 46.5 but at exactly 47C, I'm real impressed with how quickly it shutdown everything! Simply amazing software that will save your bacon one day! Wow!

 

[Systemlord]

even if your GPU is 110C, its not like the coolant in your water loop is also 110C. the further from the GPU, the cooler it gets - so your tubing wont get as hot as you fear.

The only thing that concerns me is the distilled water temperature, its the norm to keep GPU's below 70C using a water cooling system even though the actual water temp is much lower, gives you a bit more headroom for those super hot summer days and the possibility of a pump failure. I imagine the water temperature on a given day is about 25-35C on a fully loaded computer and/or at best 10C cooler than ambient temperatures. My Hardware Labs (480GTX 4x 120mm) radiator is a heat dissipating monster, the heat this thing is capable of is more than your room can bare except in Winter!

 

[Arctucas]

<SNIP> I imagine the water temperature on a given day is about 25-35C on a fully loaded computer and/or at best 10C cooler than ambient temperatures. My Hardware Labs (480GTX 4x 120mm) radiator is a heat dissipating monster, the heat this thing is capable of is more than your room can bare except in Winter!

Umm... not unless you are using a chiller in your loop.