Calling all experts to solve mystery!

[Darkening]

Hello to all TechPowerUp forum people! First, I want to excuse for my english, it's not my native language.

I came here because I saw a lot of very talented people that surely can help me with a problem.

I'll try to be brief and precise. Lately, some of the games I play suddenly put my monitor "out of range" or simply in a black screen. i.e: Let's say I'm playing Serious Sam 2, it's maybe 5 minutes and Bam, black screen, out of range. I can hear the music and sound going for 3 seconds more before freezing and then the machine reboots...

Curious thing is, some games do this, others don't.

Games that don't have the problem:

Assassins Creed Brotherhood.
Metro 2033 (Most demanding game I ever had)
STALKER: Clear Sky.
Rage.

Games that eventually hang:

Fallout 3.
Any Serious Sam (Be it SSam 2, First encounter HD, Second encounter HD)

Borderlands also did this but I tried it again recently and played for an hour without problems...


I checked PSU voltages and they don't seem to drop when the screen goes black. Tested with a multimeter, Voltage is steady at 12V. I also monitored GPU temperatures and sometimes it happens at 80º degrees C, others at 85, and sometimes 90. Doesn't seem temp related... The card idles at 65. Tried forcing the cooler to 100 % speed all the time but it will hang the same.


What do you suggest I try next? I'll be filling my specs now and accept any thing to try. My goal is understand what happens and learn something so I'll be willing to experiment.


Thanks in advance for the help or suggestions!
Regards from Argentina.

 

[brandonwh64]

Have your tried furmark stress test and see if it did the same thing?

 

[dir_d]

Looping is usually due to drivers, what hardware are you running, i cant see the system specs with this browser im using.

 

[Darkening]

Have your tried furmark stress test and see if it did the same thing?

I'll try now. I never bench my cards or do stress testing but if it helps, I'll post my findings.

Looping is usually due to drivers, what hardware are you running, i cant see the system specs with this browser im using.

I'm pasting my specs for you. Here!

Processor: AMD Athlon II X3 455 @3.3 Ghz (Stock)
Motherboard: Asus M4A77/USB3
Cooling: Stock cooling
Memory: 12 GB DDR3 Kingston / SuperTalent
Video Card: XFX Ati Radeon HD4870 1GB DDR5
Hard Disk: WD 1 TB Green 64 MB Buffer
CRT/LCD Model: Dell 2007 WFP
Case: Thermaltake Xaser V
Sound Card: Onboard, Via 1708S
PSU: ION Z 600 W
Software: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit



Borderlands was a no go till I tried removing all drivers and using the one that came with Win 7. Then it worked flawlessly. I went back to 11.9 Catalyst and Borderlands keeps working, but Serious Sam keeps steadily hanging in the first 5 minutes.

 

[the54thvoid]

The mention of "out of range" brings to mind a resolution issue. If your driver support and monitor resolution are incompatible, it can cause problems. I had an issue with counter strike (a long time ago now) but i set my resolution beyond my monitors range in game and it went to a black screen with "out of range" as the message.

Might be worth checking the in game resolution settings for the problem games. I think Crysis had similar problems until it was patched.

Worth checking?

 

[Derek12]

Yeah I am more leaned in driver issue, though, I don't know exactly that card* but your load temps seems to be in the high side but not sure if could cause what you're experiencing. Do you get the same temps after you set the fan to 100%? maybe it's dusty...

I forgotten to say, check your CPU temperatures too

*I saw video cards like geforce 9500 in my own that artifacted or cause a driver reset after reaching 80ºC!

 

[brandonwh64]

The 48xx series cards were crappy in terms of cooling. my 4870 512mb versions ran VERY hot and had temps up into the 100's some times. I even changed the paste to MX-2 and upped the fan speeds but only helped out about 10deg.

 

[Darkening]

The mention of "out of range" brings to mind a resolution issue. If your driver support and monitor resolution are incompatible, it can cause problems. I had an issue with counter strike (a long time ago now) but i set my resolution beyond my monitors range in game and it went to a black screen with "out of range" as the message.

Might be worth checking the in game resolution settings for the problem games. I think Crysis had similar problems until it was patched.

Worth checking?

Resolution is always 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz. This is the maximum for the monitor anyway. I always set the res before playing any game and set every game I can to this res. Should I try lower? It doesn't look the same...

Maybe the monitor is the culprit?

Yeah I am more leaned in driver issue, though, I don't know exactly that card but your load temps seems to be in the high side but not sure if could cause what you're experiencing. Do you get the same temps when you set the fan to 100%? maybe it's dusty...

The temp doesn't vary at 100 % GPU load, even with the fan at 100 % speed. Yesterday I cleaned it with compressed air. It wasn't very dirty. The voltage regulators have passive cooling and get kind of hot, but I don't know if that is normal. Ram chips doesn't have any kind of cooling, which scares me.

Want a pic of the card to illustrate?

I go test Furmark now. Wish me luck!

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

the black screen out of range issue is because your pc has crashed due to a ATI driver issue, your monitor may not support the res that the Bluescreen of DEath is using, ive had that on my pc a few times lately and though it was sort of a driver issue, it was actually the hard disk failing causing driver issues, strange but true , this can easily be checked with crystal disk info a freeware bit of software

i have had this issue in general now and again just lately tho anyway, with both ATI and an Nvidia card in a different pc so im starting to think maybe microsoft did something bad in a recent update as i notice your on win 7 too as are both the pcs ive mentioned, hmm anyone else had an odd BSD on win 7 ulty like this?

 

[Derek12]

Resolution is always 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz. This is the maximum for the monitor anyway. I always set the res before playing any game and set every game I can to this res. Should I try lower? It doesn't look the same...

Maybe the monitor is the culprit?






The temp doesn't vary at 100 % GPU load, even with the fan at 100 % speed. Yesterday I cleaned it with compressed air. It wasn't very dirty. The voltage regulators have passive cooling and get kind of hot, but I don't know if that is normal. Ram chips doesn't have any kind of cooling, which scares me.

Want a pic of the card to illustrate?

I go test Furmark now. Wish me luck!

Luck with Furmark if it runs without issues, then we can discard overheating issues but those temperatures aren't very healty anyway!

Strange that the temps don't change setting the fan at 100%, are you sure the fan is spinning faster? (because I had cards whose fan was spinning at fixed speed regardless of the fan settings)

Can a pic of the card, many times a image helps a lot

 

[Goodman]

Resolution is always 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz. This is the maximum for the monitor anyway. I always set the res before playing any game and set every game I can to this res. Should I try lower? It doesn't look the same...

Maybe the monitor is the culprit?

It's resolution or the Hertz make sure that resolution & the Hertz are setup correctly in the game setup

My guess is your games try to run at higher Hertz , sometimes you got to uninstall & reinstall the game for it to work at correct resolution & Hertz

 

[Darkening]

The 48xx series cards were crappy in terms of cooling. my 4870 512mb versions ran VERY hot and had temps up into the 100's some times. I even changed the paste to MX-2 and upped the fan speeds but only helped out about 10deg.

Hey! I'm back... Card didn't die on me, haha...

Here's Furmark Bench @ 720:

http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/furmark_score_190.php?id=218962


I tried running it in my native res and temp rose to 87º C but didn't hang. I'll try a Burn In now. Any setting I should use?

the black screen out of range issue is because your pc has crashed due to a ATI driver issue, your monitor may not support the res that the Bluescreen of DEath is using, ive had that on my pc a few times lately and though it was sort of a driver issue, it was actually the hard disk failing causing driver issues, strange but true , this can easily be checked with crystal disk info a freeware bit of software

i have had this issue in general now and again just lately tho anyway, with both ATI and an Nvidia card in a different pc so im starting to think maybe microsoft did something bad in a recent update as i notice your on win 7 too as are both the pcs ive mentioned, hmm anyone else had an odd BSD on win 7 ulty like this?

Initially I was thinking about drivers too and backing to the default ones from MS worked for sometime but Serious Sam complains that the drivers are too old and hang no matter what drivers I'm using. I can try a clean windows install with another hard disk to see if it solves the problem but I wanted to avoid it for as long as possible.

I have all the windows updates so it may be possible there's a problem there. I used to play Borderlands, Fallout 3 and Serious Sam 2 for hours without a single hiccup.

 

[KingPing]

If your 4870 has the stock cooler, pay attetion to the VRM temperature when running furmark, mine used to be 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the core temp, 50-60 core temp and the VRM was at 70-80, in frumark it went all the way up to 100 even with the fan at full speed.

 

[Darkening]

Luck with Furmark if it runs without issues, then we can discard overheating issues but those temperatures aren't very healty anyway!

Strange that the temps don't change setting the fan at 100%, are you sure the fan is spinning faster? (because I had cards whose fan was spinning at fixed speed regardless of the fan settings)

Can a pic of the card, many times a image helps a lot

I ran the burn-in! I waited 10 minutes just to be sure and had no problems. Temp started at 67º C and went fast to 85. Then slowly went up to 88 and stayed there for the rest of the test. Max recorded temp was 90º C

Fan never reached 100 % though, it maxed at 73%. The fan does spin faster, I can hear the classic turbine sound

I'll take a picture of the card. I'll need to take it out of the case... Meanwhile, here are some from the Internet so you can have an idea:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=HD-487A-ZWFC&filt=all&view=large&FORM=VBCIRL


One curious thing about furmark is that mem load is 0 %. Could be that the mem needs some testing? How should I proceed?

It's resolution or the Hertz make sure that resolution & the Hertz are setup correctly in the game setup

My guess is your games try to run at higher Hertz , sometimes you got to uninstall & reinstall the game for it to work at correct resolution & Hertz

Many games don't let me adjust hertz. Maybe you're right since the max hertz supported for the monitor are 75, but that is at 1280x1024. Maybe the game is forcing 1680x1050 @ 75?

Can the monitor sustain that for 5 minutes? I imagined that if it was out of range, it wouldn't work anyways, not even for a second.





I checked CPU temps too. Used HW monitor. It never goes higher that 41º C.

Sorry if it's double post!

 

[brandonwh64]

Ok then Im also leaning toward driver issues. have you tried using driver sweeper in safe mode then install a different version?

 

[Derek12]

I ran the burn-in! I waited 10 minutes just to be sure and had no problems. Temp started at 67º C and went fast to 85. Then slowly went up to 88 and stayed there for the rest of the test. Max recorded temp was 90º C

Fan never reached 100 % though, it maxed at 73%. The fan does spin faster, I can hear the classic turbine sound

I'll take a picture of the card. I'll need to take it out of the case... Meanwhile, here are some from the Internet so you can have an idea:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=HD-487A-ZWFC&filt=all&view=large&FORM=VBCIRL


One curious thing about furmark is that mem load is 0 %. Could be that the mem needs some testing? How should I proceed?

And didn't crashed, then I'd think *for now* that there isn't a overheating issue, but the memories or VRM can overheat, does GPUz report more temperatures or only GPU?

I saw in the photos that there is a small heatsink near the plastic cover, is it for the VRMs or memories or is simply a elongation of the main HS? I can't see more clearly (asking in general )

As far I know furmark doesn't stress the memories (correct me if I worng please), only the GPU part. I think OCCT GPU test uses memory but I am not sure, plus it indicates if artifacts detected so would be useful.

Also Brandonwh advice is useful, there may be leftovers of previously installed drivers and can cause weird issues and try another CCC version 11.8 for example

Also check the CPU temperature during games and see if it's normal

 

[Darkening]

If your 4870 has the stock cooler, pay attetion to the VRM temperature when running furmark, mine used to be 20 to 30 degrees hotter than the core temp, 50-60 core temp and the VRM was at 70-80, in frumark it went all the way up to 100 even with the fan at full speed.

I had the stock cooler but replaced it yesterday for one bigger from a HIS card that died (Was from a friend, not mine). Put Artic Silver and all. Temps seems the same. The fan spins at 13~18 % speed when idle, 2D mode. It seems that the card wants to run at 60 idle, 85 to 90 in load.

The VRMs gets hot but I don't know how to cool them. The Fan is only for the GPU and it's not linked to VRMs in any way.

Image from Internet:

Under that black dissipator (Sorry, don't know the exact term) are the VRMs. I can't touch that for more than 5 seconds without feeling burny...

Ok then Im also leaning toward driver issues. have you tried using driver sweeper in safe mode then install a different version?

I'll try driver sweeper now. I did a chkdisk just to be sure of file problems. Came out Ok. I always run a fan next to the hard disk. Temp is 28º C.


Any Catalyst version that you suggest? I always install the latest but I don't mind going back a few versions.




Thanks to all for your continued support!

 

[Goodman]

Many games don't let me adjust hertz. Maybe you're right since the max hertz supported for the monitor are 75, but that is at 1280x1024. Maybe the game is forcing 1680x1050 @ 75?

Yeah! that is a possibility , you could also look for game patch or like others suggest different drivers?

 

[Darkening]

Ok then Im also leaning toward driver issues. have you tried using driver sweeper in safe mode then install a different version?

I tried finding driver sweeper but it seems to have a problem with the people in Guru3d for adding adware. I'll do a fast Win 7 install in another hard disk, load Cat 11.9 and test again.

And didn't crashed, then I'd think *for now* that there isn't a overheating issue, but the memories or VRM can overheat, does GPUz report more temperatures or only GPU?

I saw in the photos that there is a small heatsink near the plastic cover, is it for the VRMs or memories or is simply a elongation of the main HS? I can't see more clearly (asking in general )

As far I know furmark doesn't stress the memories (correct me if I worng please), only the GPU part. I think OCCT GPU test uses memory but I am not sure, plus it indicates if artifacts detected so would be useful.

Also Brandonwh advice is useful, there may be leftovers of previously installed drivers and can cause weird issues and try another CCC version 11.8 for example

Also check the CPU temperature during games and see if it's normal

Haha, you don't like my temps! I don't like them too

GPU-Z reports this:

GPU Temperature: 63º C (2D, idle)
GPU Temp. (DISPIO): 46º C (Never seems to change much, goes to 48 and back)
GPU Temp. (MEMIO): 63º C (Seems tied to the first GPU Temp, varies slightly)
GPU Temp. (SHADERCORE): 49º C

As I said before, the VRMs are isolated from the main GPU cooler. The memory chips are in the open with NO heatsink at all. It was always this way and worked for years now...

Yeah! that is a possibility , you could also look for game patch or like others suggest different drivers?

I'll do a full reinstall now and see what happens. I don't know how to force 60 hz if the game doesn't have the option. Still, before reinstalling I'll try running it @ 1280x1024

Again, thanks to all for the help!

 

[Derek12]

Haha, you don't like my temps! I don't like them too

GPU-Z reports this:

GPU Temperature: 63º C (2D, idle)
GPU Temp. (DISPIO): 46º C (Never seems to change much, goes to 48 and back)
GPU Temp. (MEMIO): 63º C (Seems tied to the first GPU Temp, varies slightly)
GPU Temp. (SHADERCORE): 49º C

As I said before, the VRMs are isolated from the main GPU cooler. The memory chips are in the open with NO heatsink at all. It was always this way and worked for years now...

Yeah I don't like them but maybe the card is designed for those temps who knows

If VRM has dedicated heatsinks then I think that they are fine (not overheating), but memories can anyway.
Lets see how goes with the clean installation if it continues then check CPU as may be overheating in games and causing your problem

 

[Darkening]

Yeah I don't like them but maybe the card is designed for those temps who knows

If VRM has dedicated heatsinks then I think that they are fine (not overheating), but memories can anyway.
Lets see how goes with the clean installation if it continues then check CPU as may be overheating in games and causing your problem

Well, I didn't do the reinstall yet. I wanted to try Goodman advice and loaded SSam with lower res. Put 1280x1024 and the problem is gone. I ran it for 30 minutes without a problem. Checked temps too, the max was 79º C for the GPU and MEMIO, 65 for SHADERCORE.

Sooo... Lowering res fixes the problem but temps are lower too. What should I try now? I'll go back to 1680x1050 to see if it crashes.


Yay, we are making progress!

 

[Depth]

Get an nVidia card No! Bad Depth.

How long have you had the video card? Did it "suddenly" start or did it happen rarely at first but then more frequently?

 

[Darkening]

Ok, I'm back... As I said earlier, I played in 1280x1024 for half an hour without issues. Then I switched to 1440x900 so I had a clean 16:10 aspect ratio. No problems...

Then, I went back to 1680x1050. 2 minutes and crash... GPU-Z was logging temp and it was 81º C at that moment.

Is VSync in sync with my refresh rate? I don't know, but I have Vsync on and game stays @ 60 FPS solid. Wouldn't that mean that refresh rate is 60 Hertz or I'm misunderstanding something?


I'm about to do the reinstall, but I don't know what to think.


Sorry if I'm double posting, wanted to update you guys helping. Thanks!




Edit... Reply to Depth:

Get an nVidia card No! Bad Depth.

How long have you had the video card? Did it "suddenly" start or did it happen rarely at first but then more frequently?

I had this card for 2 years aprox. I don't really know when it started, because I was playing other games for some time. Then I got the latest Borderlands DLC and wanted to play but started with the issues. Went to finish Fallout 3 then... The same thing. Fallout takes more time to hang but it eventually happens.

I can tell you, 3 months before this didn't happen at all. But if the card is dying, why I can run Metro 2033 (Really struggling with graphics there) for hours?


I would buy another card but prices are crazy over here (Argentina).

For example:

GTX 460 Evga: 270 U$S
Radeon 6850: 230 U$S

The exchange rate doesn't help either

 

[brandonwh64]

Dark-

Please install this and then uninstall all AMD drivers. THEN reboot into safe mode and run driver sweeper. After its finished It will reboot then install different drivers.

http://phyxion.net/Driver-Sweeper/Driver-Sweeper/Version-3-2-0/

 

[Depth]

Is VSync in sync with my refresh rate? I don't know, but I have Vsync on and game stays @ 60 FPS solid. Wouldn't that mean that refresh rate is 60 Hertz or I'm misunderstanding something?

Refresh rate is how often the screen updates the picture and FPS is how often the video card sends a new picture to the screen. I.E. with a 60 hertz refresh anything above 60 fps is a "waste" of frames, and a 120 hertz refresh rate with 60 fps the screen will only update the picture every two hertz.