• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

28 nm struggles: TSMC & GlobalFoundries

Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,356 (0.50/day)
Location
VT
Processor Intel i7-10700k
Motherboard Gigabyte Aurorus Ultra z490
Cooling Corsair H100i RGB
Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR4-3200MHz
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming Trio X 3070 LHR
Display(s) ASUS MG278Q / AOC G2590FX
Case Corsair X4000 iCue
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair RM650x 650W Fully Modular
Software Windows 10
GlobalFoundries 32nm-SHP should be the most expensive process yet it is cheaper than Intel's 32nm high-end process

Intel's is more expensive because it is a better product with more reliable yields. They first shipped product developed using High-K in 2007, GF just barely did it in 2011. Then there's the whole gate-first vs. gate-last situation. Overall Intel is just doing better than GF, as they should, since they cherry-pick the best engineers in the world\industry.
 
W

Wiselnvestor

Guest
"At 45-nm, only NVIDIA was affected. At 28-nm any problems for TSMC will be problems for many customers" said Bryant.

So I take this as a hint that NVDA will delay once again their line of next gen gpu's. Or something they(or anyone) can use to say that it's not entirely their fault i presume.
 
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
2,792 (0.40/day)
Location
Tre, Suomi Finland
System Name Ladpot ◦◦◦ Desktop
Processor R7 5800H ◦◦◦ i7 4770K, watercooled
Motherboard HP 88D2 ◦◦◦ Asus Z87-C2 Maximus VI Formula
Cooling Mixed gases ◦◦◦ Fuzion V1, MCW60/R2, DDC1/DDCT-01s top, PA120.3, EK200, D12SL-12, liq.metal TIM
Memory 2× 8GB DDR4-3200 ◦◦◦ 2× 8GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) RTX 3070 ◦◦◦ heaps of dead GPUs in the garage
Storage Samsung 980 PRO 2TB ◦◦◦ Samsung 840Pro 256@178GB + 4× WD Red 2TB in RAID10 + LaCie Blade Runner 4TB
Display(s) HP ZR30w 30" 2560×1600 (WQXGA) H2-IPS
Case Lian Li PC-A16B
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair AX860i
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S / Contour RollerMouse Red+
Keyboard Logitech Elite Keyboard from 2006 / Contour Balance Keyboard / Logitech diNovo Edge
Software W11 x64 ◦◦◦ W10 x64
Benchmark Scores It does boot up? I think.
And besides, nVIDIA and 45nm?
Is there a 45nm GPU by nV? Must've missed that...
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
1,229 (0.25/day)
Location
USA, Arizona
System Name SolarwindMobile
Processor AMD FX-9800P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G
Motherboard Acer Wasp_BR
Cooling It's Copper.
Memory 2 x 8GB SK Hynix/HMA41GS6AFR8N-TF
Video Card(s) ATI/AMD Radeon R7 Series (Bristol Ridge FP4) [ACER]
Storage TOSHIBA MQ01ABD100 1TB + KINGSTON RBU-SNS8152S3128GG2 128 GB
Display(s) ViewSonic XG2401 SERIES
Case Acer Aspire E5-553G
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC255
Power Supply PANASONIC AS16A5K
Mouse SteelSeries Rival
Keyboard Ducky Channel Shine 3
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit (Version 1607, Build 14393.969)
I guess by "development" you only meant the lenght of the development cycle, not technological advancement, shrinkage of fab processes, etc.

The SOI department are already testing 8nm-5nm FD-SOI FinFet UTBOX

Time to Volume is longer because the cost to mass produce the tools is expensive

Yet, AMD's chips are slower and consume considerably more power.
http://largon.wippiespace.com/smilies/shrug.gif

Slower is an architecture thing(They choose to go to FMA(Then Round) in a FADD(Then Round)+FMUL(Then Round) world) but by design it is above Intel designs where 32nm/22nm are still stock @3.5GHz Stock for the i7 2700K/i7 3770K

Trinity 3.8GHz @ 100W
Komodo/Vishera 3.9-4.2GHz @ 125W

Sandy Bridge Integer Pipeline 14
Bulldozer Integer Pipeline 15

The clock rates wouldn't be possible if the fabrication process was doo doo, We didn't get 65nm again(You know Phenom I @ 2.6GHz and less, Imagine FX @ Opteron 4200 Clocks while @ 140Ws)

Intel's is more expensive because it is a better product with more reliable yields.

I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

So Reliable my bum
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
1,828 (0.36/day)
Location
London
System Name Jaspe
Processor Ryzen 1500X
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming
Cooling Stock
Memory 16Gb Corsair 3000mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTS 450
Storage Crucial M500
Display(s) Philips 1080 24'
Case NZXT
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Enermax 425W
Software Windows 10 Pro
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,356 (0.50/day)
Location
VT
Processor Intel i7-10700k
Motherboard Gigabyte Aurorus Ultra z490
Cooling Corsair H100i RGB
Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR4-3200MHz
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming Trio X 3070 LHR
Display(s) ASUS MG278Q / AOC G2590FX
Case Corsair X4000 iCue
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair RM650x 650W Fully Modular
Software Windows 10
I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

They held the record before--with a Netburst Celeron. Clock Speed doesn't mean shit if the Performance per Clock is bad, and Intel outperforms AMD clock-for-clock. If I recall, Intel also locks down their CPU's to ensure they have longer lifespans and run more reliably where as AMD just mass produces them and says HAVE AT with the BE CPU's. While BD holding the OC record is impressive in it's own rite, it is not indicative of actual performance.

I also meant Reliability in terms of their yield and manufacturing capacity. If Intel says they will have a product ready by a certain time frame, they always are. Alternatively GF producing low yield (whether or not it was their fault remains to be seen) delayed BD quite substantially.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
1,742 (0.31/day)
Location
on top of that big mountain on mars(Romania)
System Name ( . Y . )
I don't believe this. I think they are saying this just to justify higher prices; they did the same on 40nm node.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
2,198 (0.46/day)
Location
So. Cal.
No surprise here... Been saying this all along about such production issues (those are somewhat behind us now Mike Bryant is many weeks late in his statments), and that TSMC big bump in 28Nm chip pricings, things are what they are.

AMD development and design permits them to get into TSMC first, but with that they get to field and encounter more of TSMC set-backs as they surface. Nvidia comes along several weeks later, although there’s their own teething pains’; they have fewer as some process problems are already sort through.

We’re all astounded at AMD 7970 price, but Nvidia has still yet made it into the batter’s box... How will it play out? Nvidia needs to come with a GK104 first just to be reavant on price. Sure while the GK110 will have performance, the price is probably shockingly prohibitive in this current economic landscape. Waiting a few months will numb us and provide opportunity to get better yields.

Nvidia is making a smart move, wait for the graduation/summer buy season to drop their bomb.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
470 (0.10/day)
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Name Dell Studio XPS 8100 / Current PC
Processor Intel Core i5-750 @ 2.66 GHz / i5-3570K @ 3.4 GHz
Motherboard Dell Stock H55 / ASUS P8Z77-VLK
Cooling Stock
Memory Hynix 8GB DDR3-1333 / Kingston HyperX Blu Black 8 GB DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) MSI Radeon HD 7770 / EVGA GTX 560 Superclocked
Storage 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black / 128 GB Crucial m4 + 2TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) Samsung 19'' LCD / Dell 24'' LCD
Case Dell Studio XPS 8100 / Bitfenix Merc Alpha
Audio Device(s) Realtek Integrated
Power Supply Dell Stock 350W / OCZ ModXStream 700W
Benchmark Scores Dell Keyboard + Dell Mouse / Azio Levetron Clicker + Razer Lachesis
You seem to know the details. I've had this info before, do you by any chance know where i can find Intel's read map, i used to find them on their website but nowadays i cant seem to see them, so if you can find the road map please post it or post a link preferably PDF

I didn't find this on a road map from Intel specifically.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...architectures-revealed-haswell2c-skylake.aspx
That's a site for Intel's architectures for DT/MB till skylake.

I do not remember which site had the info for intel mobile phones, but what I do remember is that it had 3 boxes with the architecture names, with their respective years.

I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

So Reliable my bum

Reliable doesn't necessarily mean that it has to beat overclocking records.
 
Top