Help with i7-3820/ASRock Extreme4-M x79 Spec out

[RigRebel]

SPecing out a new build for a friend that wants an option now incase he doesn't want to wait for IB>

Chip = i7-3820
Board = ASRock x79 Extreme4-m (or possibly Extreme6 if i can sell him on 3way PCI-E 3.0 sli )http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.us.asp?Model=X79 Extreme4-M

Question How can you tell an (M1) vs an (M0) version i7-8320 ? this is important because the chip came out after the chipset on the board I he wants and I have to know what chip version so I can know what bios version will support that chip on the board. Some early boards shipped without a bios version that supports the i7-8320 and will not post.


SEtup feels like kind of a waste now because I just learned that the i7-8320 won't support PCI-E 3.0 .. any suggestions for PCI-E 3.0 build with processor and board ? Any info on when a PCI-E 3.0 LGA 2011 will release ?

Cpu support list for mobo > http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.us.asp?Model=X79 Extreme4-M
Any other thoughts or comments welcome

 

[brandonwh64]

Ivy Bridge for socket 2011 will not be out until next year it seems.

If you want PCIex 3.0 then you will need a 1155 ivy bridge which releases sometime at the end of the month.

 

[Yo_Wattup]

its i7-3820 not 8320

 

[JrRacinFan]

If you want PCIex 3.0

And right now IMO, it's overrated. Barely seeing a gap between PCIe 2 x16 & x8 in multi gpu configurations.

 

[RigRebel]

its i7-3820 not 8320

sorry typo in title.. if you actually read the post it says cpu=i7-3820.

Thanks for the spell check though lmao

 

[RigRebel]

And right now IMO, it's overrated. Barely seeing a gap between PCIe 2 x16 & x8 in multi gpu configurations.

I'm aware of the older reviews on PCI-E 2x16 vs 2x8 or een 2x4 at that matter and you're correct not much diff. What I'm more concerned with is the @6.5Gts (giga tessels/second) of the 3.0 vs the 2.5-5.0Gts for the PCI-E 2.0, 2.1. That's about an @ 20-30% diff in FPS. Also concerned as well as matching/maxing to the current mobo and GTX 600 technology. The GTX 600s will support 3.0 and do for the gtx 680, the mobos boards will support it (and do for x79) just waiting on the chip

Thanks for the post though

 

[RigRebel]

Ivy Bridge for socket 2011 will not be out until next year it seems.

If you want PCIex 3.0 then you will need a 1155 ivy bridge which releases sometime at the end of the month.

Thanks brandon .. .answer I was looking for

Ps how's the Vulcan? I got mine but it's still in the box lol

 

[JrRacinFan]

sorry typo in title.. if you actually read the post it says cpu=i7-3820.

Thanks for the spell check though lmao

I'm aware of the older reviews on PCI-E 2x16 vs 2x8 or een 2x4 at that matter and you're correct not much diff. What I'm more concerned with is the @6.5Gts (giga tessels/second) of the 3.0 as well as matching/maxing to the current GTX 600 technology.

Thanks though.

Thanks brandon .. .answer I was looking for

Ps how's the Vulcan? I got mine but it's still in the box lol

Use multi-quote to avoid double/triple posts

Oh I do agree to an extent but again highly doubt the bump will provide any any type of performance gain. Worth the premium if you're going for a 3 year build? Definitely agree with you in that aspect.

 

[brandonwh64]

Thanks brandon .. .answer I was looking for

Ps how's the Vulcan? I got mine but it's still in the box lol

I never got a shipping quote, been extremely busy. I think I will just keep it for now and install my cruncher at work in it.

 

[RigRebel]

Use multi-quote to avoid double/triple posts
http://img.techpowerup.org/120406/Capture007.jpg

Oh I do agree to an extent but again highly doubt the bump will provide any any type of performance gain. Worth the premium if you're going for a 3 year build? Definitely agree with you in that aspect.

You're right, sorry I do know that just was in a hurry and forgot.


PS ?? The i7-3820 is actually 30 bucks cheaper than the i7-2600k and at stock clocks the i7-3820 eeks ahead.
Also, the ASRock x79 Extreme 6 (highly rated motherboard with good quality so far) is only @$249.00 which is exactly even with the middle end z68 setups like the Gigabyte **xp-z68-UD3 and Asus V-Pro models so I don't really see a premium difference in price.

Actually, to me, it makes more sense to go LGA 2011 if you stick with the i7-3820. Also, guru3d reports it can be slightly overclocked to 4.3Ghz from 3.6Ghz. boosting the advantage over the 2600k even more. Couple that with increased data transport speeds and quad channel RAM up to 36GB and a new platform, I think for the same price it's worth it... http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i7-3820-processor-review/

I do agree though it's not worth it for the i7-3930K version... $599.00 for the chip for ($300.00 more) for 1~1.2Ghz over clock increase is not worth it IMO. The ONLY down side I see for new builds with the LGA 2011 socket is that the 2011 CPUs DO NOT support PCI-E 3.0 but the boards and video cards do... that makes no sense.


Thanks.

 

[JrRacinFan]

I wasn't discrediting, and the word premium was used wrongly. I meant worth looking into for longevity.

Edit
Lol sometimes I speak before I think

 

[Albuquerque]

The ONLY down side I see for new builds with the LGA 2011 socket is that the 2011 CPUs DO NOT support PCI-E 3.0 but the boards and video cards do... that makes no sense.

Not true. My 3930k on an Intel DX79si does indeed report PCI-E 3.0 mode enabled and in-use (as indicated by the BIOS, GPU-Z and video drivers) on my Radeon 7970. It also intelligently de-clocks the PCI-E interface to 1.1 speeds when the card isn't in use, which is kinda cool.

I'm happy to provide screenshots if you like

Edit: Here is a HUGE screencap with it at idle that I already have (where it's idling at PCI-E 1.1 spec) I'll post a shot with the card under load when it shifts 'up' into PCI-E 3.0 mode after I get home.

 

[newtekie1]

Question How can you tell an (M1) vs an (M0) version i7-8320 ? this is important because the chip came out after the chipset on the board I he wants and I have to know what chip version so I can know what bios version will support that chip on the board. Some early boards shipped without a bios version that supports the i7-8320 and will not post.

To answer the question, the M0 was Engineering Samples, and M1 was retail chips. So, unless you are buying an engineering sample, you are getting an M1.

All the crap about PCI-E 3.0 support.

SandyBridge-E does not "officially" support PCI-E 3.0. No where will it say it supports PCI-E 3.0, not in the marketting, not in the specs, and not in the white papers. What it does support is PCI-E 3.0 speeds. In all of Intel's documentation they say PCI-E@8GT/s. The reason for this is that they did not get PCI/SIG certification for the Sandybridge-E processors, so Intel can not officially say Sandybridge-E supports PCI-E 3.0. This means that while most of the time they do work with PCI-E 3.0 devices, compatibility is not guaranteed, and has already shown to not work in some cases. Basically what Intel has done is left it up to the hardware manufacturers themselves to test their devices with their X79/Sandbrigde-E platform and ensure functionality(which is a real bitch move, IMO). This puts the extra cost, labor, and time on the hardware manufacturers that are making the cards.

 

[RigRebel]

To answer the question, the M0 was Engineering Samples, and M1 was retail chips. So, unless you are buying an engineering sample, you are getting an M1.



SandyBridge-E does not "officially" support PCI-E 3.0. No where will it say it supports PCI-E 3.0, not in the marketting, not in the specs, and not in the white papers. What it does support is PCI-E 3.0 speeds. In all of Intel's documentation they say PCI-E@8GT/s. The reason for this is that they did not get PCI/SIG certification for the Sandybridge-E processors, so Intel can not officially say Sandybridge-E supports PCI-E 3.0. This means that while most of the time they do work with PCI-E 3.0 devices, compatibility is not guaranteed, and has already shown to not work in some cases. Basically what Intel has done is left it up to the hardware manufacturers themselves to test their devices with their X79/Sandbrigde-E platform and ensure functionality(which is a real bitch move, IMO). This puts the extra cost, labor, and time on the hardware manufacturers that are making the cards.

Newtekie1 you da man or woman Thank you for the detailed fully knowledgeable explination. That will help me decide. Good news is the z77 mobos are out today and hopefully the i5-3750 will be out soon. I found this article you guys might enjoy! http://www.techpowerup.com/160895/C...e-i5-2500K-36-Slower-Than-GeForce-GT-240.html
It boasts a 67% increase in graphics of the i5-3570K/z77 vs the i5-2500k/z68 combo oh wait .. this is for IGP so no biggie for me. I have not had the time to fully read it yet.
Personally I want to wait till Haswell but my friend is wanting to build now for a work project so now it is... Thanks agin for the excellent info.
PEACE

 

[nleksan]

I am at a similar crossroads myself, preparing to make my own "ultimate gaming and HD video/audio editing rig". I am really looking forward to Ivy Bridge, particularly the 3770K in hopes of getting a chip with excellent overclocking while being less "hot" than current models, something that the new fabrication process has the potential to deliver on in a major way. Look at the difference between the Radeon 6xxx/NVidia 5xx and the 7xxx/680... Cooler temps, and crazy overclocking potential even with stock cooling.
However, there is also the fact that Socket2011 is the "cream of the crop" platform right now, regardless of manufacturer. I just don't see the 3820 being enough of a jump in performance to justify the extra cost, but the 3930K is a $600 processor and the 3960X is not realistic for myself or many others.
So, to go IVB (basics) one is looking at around $300 for the 3770K + $300 for the Z77 Maximus (when it is released eventually) + $100 for 16GB DDR3-1866... With SB-E, on the other hand, I would be looking at $600 for the 3930K + $400 for the top Asus X79 board + $300 for 32GB of DDR3-1866... Even maxing out the ram for both boards is $300 for Z77 or $600 for X79.
I don't know if the nearly 100% price increase is worth the ~20-33% performance bump. Also, it is my understanding that the X79 chips tend not to overclock so great, and also emit a lot of heat, meaning I would be looking at a dual-loop system right off the bat if I want a 4.8Ghz 3930K to stay cool (to me, overclocking must retain reliability, which cool temps provide, especially with a $600 chip).
Overall, I would imagine that the water system would add a not-insignificant amount of cost to the build compared to a Z77/IVB setup.

These are just my thoughts, and I am probably not correct on all or even most of the points I made, but it just seems like 1155 is the socket to go with unless you absolutely need the highest end chip available, cost no issue.

Also, looking at the new Z77 boards, it seems that with PCI-E3.0, it is possible to have 3 cards at (3.0) X16/X8/X4, which I believe is the equivalent of PCI-E2.0 at x32(x16)/x16/x8... That is an awful lot of bandwidth for graphics, and I would think that having 3x 7970/680 GPUs in such a configuration would be freaking awesome!

 

[RigRebel]

I am at a similar crossroads myself, preparing to make my own "ultimate gaming and HD video/audio editing rig". I am really looking forward to Ivy Bridge, particularly the 3770K in hopes of getting a chip with excellent overclocking while being less "hot" than current models, something that the new fabrication process has the potential to deliver on in a major way. Look at the difference between the Radeon 6xxx/NVidia 5xx and the 7xxx/680... Cooler temps, and crazy overclocking potential even with stock cooling.
However, there is also the fact that Socket2011 is the "cream of the crop" platform right now, regardless of manufacturer. I just don't see the 3820 being enough of a jump in performance to justify the extra cost, but the 3930K is a $600 processor and the 3960X is not realistic for myself or many others.
So, to go IVB (basics) one is looking at around $300 for the 3770K + $300 for the Z77 Maximus (when it is released eventually) + $100 for 16GB DDR3-1866... With SB-E, on the other hand, I would be looking at $600 for the 3930K + $400 for the top Asus X79 board + $300 for 32GB of DDR3-1866... Even maxing out the ram for both boards is $300 for Z77 or $600 for X79.
I don't know if the nearly 100% price increase is worth the ~20-33% performance bump. Also, it is my understanding that the X79 chips tend not to overclock so great, and also emit a lot of heat, meaning I would be looking at a dual-loop system right off the bat if I want a 4.8Ghz 3930K to stay cool (to me, overclocking must retain reliability, which cool temps provide, especially with a $600 chip).
Overall, I would imagine that the water system would add a not-insignificant amount of cost to the build compared to a Z77/IVB setup.

These are just my thoughts, and I am probably not correct on all or even most of the points I made, but it just seems like 1155 is the socket to go with unless you absolutely need the highest end chip available, cost no issue.

Also, looking at the new Z77 boards, it seems that with PCI-E3.0, it is possible to have 3 cards at (3.0) X16/X8/X4, which I believe is the equivalent of PCI-E2.0 at x32(x16)/x16/x8... That is an awful lot of bandwidth for graphics, and I would think that having 3x 7970/680 GPUs in such a configuration would be freaking awesome!

I think most people trying to compare the i7-3820 and the i7-2600k are missing the boat. The power to this setup is NOT in the clocks or cores as much as it is in the MEMORY CONTROLLER. Just like the x58 the memory controller, the x79 is way better than the mainstream boards and bigger than z77 boards and with Quad channel RAM capable of up to 64GB and capable of no bottleneck when putting together multiple sli configurations such as 2x GTX680s.

I read a post just 3 days ago where the poster says he bought 2 GTX680s and put them on an FX990 setup with bulldozer and was getting 32k score on some test (think it was cinebench i could be wrong and too tired to hunt for it). He went on to talk about the "bottleneck" for the GTX680s then said he upgraded to the i7-3820 and the x79. Once he did the score on that test jumped to 52k. Now I'm sure the chip made a big difference but again i think where the money is at for x79 set up is in 1. the memory controller and 2. in the 40lane PCI-E bus vs the only 16lan in the PCI-E bus for the z77. Thus up to 4way sli will be way better in the z79 setup... Now he could also be benifiting just simply by the core architecture of the iSeries over the Bulldozers, and what not. I true test would be to just bench the two chips/setups.

So to recap, yeah, chip to chip not much of a difference in the i7-2600k and the i7-3820 in cores and clocks; BUT, THE REAL POWER IS IN THE MEMORY CONTROLLER AND 40-PCI LANES ON THE X79 SET UP,I could be wrong though. Also, the 40lanes is why the x79 can do PCI-E 3.0 16x3 vs the 16/8 or 8/8 or 16/4 you mentioned for the z77; although 16/16 vs 8/8 comparison reviews show little difference at all between the 2. And, of course the nice overclocking especially on the ASRock extremes. Again, I could be wrong but that's how I understand it. That's how the x58 was and if you go to new egg and look at the new video for the Asus board review it will say that the x79 is the "enthusiats" level and the z77 is the "mainstream"...
Ps there are five pages of posts http://forums.overclockers.com.au/r...91&i=af05eeec3bf96f6d25e7f3e6ad510689a94141a4 of the i7-8320 vs the i7-2600k and that's where I think most people are missing the boat. My advice for poeple is to not be lazy and read full board reviews (or white pages) of what the new technology is and not just the newegg specs lol .. .there is a lot more to a chip and setup then just cores and clocks. The architecture for 1 is different and the 2011 is like the xeon architeture and x58 thus much stronger multitaksing, memcontrollers and PCI-E bus.
I for one am going to wait for the IB-E that will hopefully be a nice "tock" to the 2011 and have full PCI-E 3.0. In the mean time I may upgrade and HTPC to a lower lvl z77 MicroATX and i5-3750 just to cure my SLI fever.


Peace
ps i too can get lazy and somtimes come here first for answers rather than digging lol no one's perfect but just the "shopping" specs are NOT enough to distinquish the two chips and in this case gotta dig deeper Think "server grade" vs "average user" grade.