Does a 1080 tv ever display an image correctly...

[Solaris17]

The fix for everyone one of my crappy looking tv's via an HDMI/VGA/DVI input has been to disable scaling within the TV. The issue is the TV tries to scale all images including 1080P coming into it in order to remove the possibility of inputs not outputting a full 1920X1080.

i ran into this problem with nvidia cards. i had to go into the tv menu and put it on just scan instead of specifying a resolution and or aspect ratio.

 

[newtekie1]

Most of the HDTVs I've seen are advertised to be 1080p, but the sad truth to most of the HDTVs the don't actually have 1920 x 1080 Pixels, what i have found out in the Manuals that come with those TVs is that,..

They have like 1366 x 768 Pixels or less then it can upscale if you play a 1080p clip on it or run a game at 1080p. but the sad truth is most of them don't have 1920 x 1080p.

Most manuals state something known as working resolutions 1366 x 768 and can upscale to 1920 x 1080.

Only few HDTVs actually have the 1920 x 1080.

On the other hand if a monitor is advertised to be 1920 x 1080p then it has that, that's why monitors are better than HDTVs

A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel. What you are talking about is 1080i TVs, they use 1366x768 panels. Technically, HD is 720p, so a 1366x768 panel is used and can be sold as an HDTV. Too many people assume that just because it says HDTV that it is 1920x1080, but technically anything 720p or greater can be sold as an HDTV.

As for the OP's problems, I haven't had a 1080p TV yet that didn't look good. However, they usually require some tweaking to get a good image. For example, here is what the image looks like on my 1080p 42" Vizio that is ~4 years old:

 

[boogerlad]

Check your underscan/overscan settings. My experience is nVidia cards do it automatically, but amd needs manual adjustment.

A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel. What you are talking about is 1080i TVs, they use 1366x768 panels. Technically, HD is 720p, so a 1366x768 panel is used and can be sold as an HDTV. Too many people assume that just because it says HDTV that it is 1920x1080, but technically anything 720p or greater can be sold as an HDTV.

As for the OP's problems, I haven't had a 1080p TV yet that didn't look good. However, they usually require some tweaking to get a good image.

Uhh, no. 1080p is a 1920*1080 @ 60hz. 1080i is 1920*1080 @ 30hz. 720p is 1280*768 @ 60hz, etc...

 

[newtekie1]

Uhh, no. 1080p is a 1920*1080 @ 60hz. 1080i is 1920*1080 @ 30hz. 720p is 1280*768 @ 60hz, etc...

1080i is 1080 Interlaced, so 1920x540. Most 1080i material is still 60Hz, however some material actually combines two frames into one to give a 1080p signal at 30Hz and then double the frame up to match the 60Hz the TV displays.

And 720p is 1280x720 @ 60Hz.

However, most 720p HDTVs actually use 1366x768 panels, and these 1366x768 panels are also somehow able to be labeled as 1080i, as I said.

 

[eidairaman1]

EDID tables are screwy

 

[Lazzer408]

It's all marketing strategies. Before 1080 was marketed like candy to a bunch of sweet-toothed sheep, I didn't have any trouble finding a 1920x1280 24" monitor a few years ago. Ah yes, good old DVI. You plug it in and it worked. A few days ago I took a walk past Best Buy's monitor display to notice they were all 1080. Corporations LOVE confusing customers don't they? The 1920x1280 monitors are gone but don't worry, they'll be back in the form of "new" UDTV so they can market them to you all over again. I'm well aware of many 1920x1280 monitors being available but at a price but when I bought my 24" 1920x1280 (8 years ago?) it was on sale at Office Depot for $199. Same thing goes for CPUs. A few years ago a core2duo desktop was a few 100 at Walmart. 8-10 years later I find systems with B960s for 100s more. Anyone ever get the feeling that technology advancements have slowed down significantly over the last 10 years? I'm seeing a trend of products being marketed as something new when in fact I could have bought it 10 years ago for alot less.

As for the HDMI/PC/HDTV issues, WHY would a manufacture deliberately flaw the TVs ability to properly display 1080 content entering the set in a "native format" (for lack of a better term)? If the problem was limited to a few makes or models I could understand it as an overlook. I would also expect a firmware update to correct it. Fact is, the problem plagues the TV industry. Just a simple Google search containing "fuzzy text, hdtv, 1080, PC, ect." will bring result after result of people having this problem. Yes some people "get lucky", like v12dock did, but there clearly is a problem.

A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel.

Wrong. I've seen MANY 1080i/p TVs that have 768 panels in them. It was VERY common for early plasma sets. As long as it could display an image from a 1080 signal, they put 1080 on the box. It internally converted it to 768 but they won't tell you that.

 

[eidairaman1]

i recall 1920x1200 being ideal

It's all marketing strategies. Before 1080 was marketed like candy to a bunch of sweet-toothed sheep, I didn't have any trouble finding a 1920x1280 24" monitor a few years ago. Ah yes, good old DVI. You plug it in and it worked. A few days ago I took a walk past Best Buy's monitor display to notice they were all 1080. Corporations LOVE confusing customers don't they? The 1920x1280 monitors are gone but don't worry, they'll be back in the form of "new" UDTV so they can market them to you all over again. I'm well aware of many 1920x1280 monitors being available but at a price but when I bought my 24" 1920x1280 (8 years ago?) it was on sale at Office Depot for $199. Same thing goes for CPUs. A few years ago a core2duo desktop was a few 100 at Walmart. 8-10 years later I find systems with B960s for 100s more. Anyone ever get the feeling that technology advancements have slowed down significantly over the last 10 years? I'm seeing a trend of products being marketed as something new when in fact I could have bought it 10 years ago for alot less.

As for the HDMI/PC/HDTV issues, WHY would a manufacture deliberately flaw the TVs ability to properly display 1080 content entering the set in a "native format" (for lack of a better term)? If the problem was limited to a few makes or models I could understand it as an overlook. I would also expect a firmware update to correct it. Fact is, the problem plagues the TV industry. Just a simple Google search containing "fuzzy text, hdtv, 1080, PC, ect." will bring result after result of people having this problem. Yes some people "get lucky", like v12dock did, but there clearly is a problem.

 

[Lazzer408]

EDID tables are screwy

EDID shouldn't matter because one can force any resolution they want. If the TV has a 1920x1080 panel then a 1920x1080 custom resolution SHOULD fit dot4dot through HDMI. It doesn't fit over HDMI. That's the problem. VGA is working great but a digital signal would look better.

i recall 1920x1200 being ideal

I love the cheapo 24" I use at home that runs 1920x1280. At work I have another 24" Samsung monitor that also runs 1920x1280. I only use it for testing because it has all 3 inputs (HDMI, DVI, VGA) so I just grab the cord I need rather then searching for adaptors. Tonight we built a mid-range gaming PC for a customer and his jaw dropped at the detail his games had through that monitor.

 

[eidairaman1]

the Laptop i have runs at 1920x1200 actually, its good for movies, but at time was decent for games, i know it cant run anything but movies now

EDID shouldn't matter because one can force any resolution they want. If the TV has a 1920x1080 panel then a 1920x1080 custom resolution SHOULD fit dot4dot through HDMI. It doesn't fit over HDMI. That's the problem. VGA is working great but a digital signal would look better.



I love the cheapo 24" I use at home that runs 1920x1280. At work I have another 24" Samsung monitor that also runs 1920x1280. I only use it for testing because it has all 3 inputs (HDMI, DVI, VGA) so I just grab the cord I need rather then searching for adaptors. Tonight we built a mid-range gaming PC for a customer and his jaw dropped at the detail his games had through that monitor.

 

[Steevo]

I just tested my Toshiba and it is displaying 4:4:4 over HDMI for me using the testing tools and my camera at pixel level is showing magenta-cyan-red in true color space down to the single pixel.

 

[Kwod]

I had the problem you described but I thought it was hdmi exclusive. I used the scaling tool in ccc and now the picture fills the entire screen just as I want.

Exactly, both my old 4850, my current 6850 and my AMD powered laptop via CCC scale correctly and proportionally any PC signal sent to my 1024x768 plasma or my 1080p HDTV.
CCC has an overscan slider, that's the key.
I think on my 768p plasma, I sent at 720p res over HDMI and then used CCC to scale it perfectly.

I have my 26in 1920x1200 PC LCD and my 1080p HDTV connected permanently, LCD is connected via DVI, and HDTV via HDMI, I use the HDTV for all DVD/HD, and LCD for games and www, but also use the HDTV for web surfing as well.

 

[Kwod]

Wrong. I've seen MANY 1080i/p TVs that have 768 panels in them. .

Do you live in Nigeria or something?.....these days, nearly everything is FULL HD aka 1920x1080p, ie, the displays will deinterlace.
Yes, there's still some cheap 768p panels in both plasma and LCD, but usually only the smallest and cheapest models, though I think Samsung, LG and panasonic still make 768p up to 50in on plasma, but have an additional 4-5 1080p models on top.

1080p resolution is also superior to 768p, for example, my Bruce Springsteen Hyde Park Bluray looks sensational on either my 768p plasma or 1080p LCD, but long range fine detail images are more visible on the 1080p screen, but I consider plasma to be a far superior TV technology.

 

[Protagonist]

A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel. What you are talking about is 1080i TVs, they use 1366x768 panels. Technically, HD is 720p, so a 1366x768 panel is used and can be sold as an HDTV. Too many people assume that just because it says HDTV that it is 1920x1080, but technically anything 720p or greater can be sold as an HDTV.

Thanks this makes lots of sense, but honestly here in Kenya HDTVs have the 1080p label on them but they only have 1366 x 768 most of them anyway.

I have had of HDTVs being showcased in the country with then 1920 x 1080 but I'm yet to walk in a shop and find one. I Know they are around but very rare in my country. Unless you personally Import.

 

[Lazzer408]

CCC has an overscan slider, that's the key.

You shouldn't have to adjust anything. You shouldn't have to FORCE a 1920x1080 signal to fit a native 1920x1080 screen. Tweaking the overscan slider is changing the 1920x1080 signal to something else your TV likes to fit on the screen. Maybe if you adjust the horizontal and vertical one pixle at a time it might work but the slider snaps to something very close but it's unlikely dot4dot correct. This is math. 1.99999999999~ isn't 2.

Do you live in Nigeria or something?.....these days, nearly everything is FULL HD aka 1920x1080p

Illinois. His statement was "A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel" This isn't ALWAYS true. Maybe "most" TVs "These days" are what they say, but lets not confuse people by saying ALL 1080 TVs have 1080 panels.

 

[Protagonist]

Illinois. His statement was "A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel" This isn't ALWAYS true. Maybe "most" TVs "These days" are what they say, but lets not confuse people by saying ALL 1080 TVs have 1080 panels.

True

 

[Kwod]

You shouldn't have to adjust anything. You shouldn't have to FORCE a 1920x1080 signal to fit a native 1920x1080 screen.

My main concern is that I have what appears to be a 1:1 pixel perfect screen, and that's what I can get, so I'm not sure what the fuss is.

 

[newtekie1]

Wrong. I've seen MANY 1080i/p TVs that have 768 panels in them. It was VERY common for early plasma sets. As long as it could display an image from a 1080 signal, they put 1080 on the box. It internally converted it to 768 but they won't tell you that.

I'd like you to show me one, because I've never seen a single TV advertised as 1080p that used a 1366x768 panel. I've seen plenty of 1080i sets, early plasmas were notorious here, but never a 1080p. Of course now a days they label the 1366x768 panels as 720p sets instead of 1080i, even if they are capable of accepting a 1080i signal(and most are).

Illinois. His statement was "A TV advertised as 1080p uses a 1920x1080 panel" This isn't ALWAYS true. Maybe "most" TVs "These days" are what they say, but lets not confuse people by saying ALL 1080 TVs have 1080 panels.

Yes it is, at least in the U.S. it is. Even going years back, 1080p has to have a 1920x1080 panel. The 1080i label was what was used to label 1366x768 panels, as I said. It confused people back in the early days of HDTV because not many knew the difference between 1080i and 1080p. And to add to the confusion some set makers simply labeled them 1080, dropping the i, so you really had to read closely what the capabilities of the TV were when buying. However, I have never seen a TV labeled 1080p that didn't use a 1920x1080 panel, they simply can't do it, it is considered false advertising. For the set to be labeled 1080p it has to be 1920x1080.

And I never said All 1080 TVs have 1080 panels, I said all 1080p TVs have 1080 panels, because they do. 1080i TVs used 1366x768 panels.

 

[Lazzer408]

I'd like you to show me one, because I've never seen a single TV advertised as 1080p that used a 1366x768 panel. I've seen plenty of 1080i sets, early plasmas were notorious here, but never a 1080p. Of course now a days they label the 1366x768 panels as 720p sets instead of 1080i, even if they are capable of accepting a 1080i signal(and most are).



Yes it is, at least in the U.S. it is. Even going years back, 1080p has to have a 1920x1080 panel. The 1080i label was what was used to label 1366x768 panels, as I said. It confused people back in the early days of HDTV because not many knew the difference between 1080i and 1080p. And to add to the confusion some set makers simply labeled them 1080, dropping the i, so you really had to read closely what the capabilities of the TV were when buying. However, I have never seen a TV labeled 1080p that didn't use a 1920x1080 panel, they simply can't do it, it is considered false advertising. For the set to be labeled 1080p it has to be 1920x1080.

And I never said All 1080 TVs have 1080 panels, I said all 1080p TVs have 1080 panels, because they do. 1080i TVs used 1366x768 panels.

I quoted you as saying 1080p. I know it exists becuse I've owned one. I don't remember what brand (likely Samsung or Dell) or what model numbers. It was years ago but I can clearly remember being pissed off about it. That's when my hatred for "HD" anything began. Back when I paid an arm and a leg and got the shaft. The'll get it right some day but it hasn't happened yet. Until then, a large majority of us are not getting what we paid for.

 

[newtekie1]

I quoted you as saying 1080p. I know it exists becuse I've owned one. I don't remember what brand (likely Samsung or Dell) or what model numbers. It was years ago but I can clearly remember being pissed off about it. That's when my hatred for "HD" anything began. Back when I paid an arm and a leg and got the shaft. The'll get it right some day but it hasn't happened yet. Until then, a large majority of us are not getting what we paid for.

Again, that is 1080i, 1080p is always a 1920x1080 panel. 1080i was 1366x768, you probably saw 1080 and assumed 1080p, but it was really 1080i. When HDTVs first started to hit the consumer market they just used 1080 a lot, you had to read closely to see that it was really 1080i using a 1366x768 panel. But 1080p always means a 1920x1080 panel is used. It was a common "trick" back then to slap 1080i or just 1080 on the box in big letters on a TV that had a 1366x768 panel to get people's attention. People would buy them expecting a 1920x1080 panel, and that wasn't what they got.

 

[Lazzer408]

1080p is always a 1920x1080 panel.

So why didn't they call it 720i or "768i" if they really wanted to be honest about it. Point is... "1080"(x) was supposed to indicate the resolution as being 1080 pixles. Wether it's progressive or interlaced shouldn't matter. That's just how it's drawn on the screen. Bottom line is they took advantage of people. Fortunatly I knew enough about it to find the actual panel resolution before buying a TV.

Back to the issue at hand.

HDMI = no workee
VGA = Workee with forced resolution with analog losses.

 

[eidairaman1]

So why didn't they call it 720i or "768i" if they really wanted to be honest about it. Point is... "1080"(x) was supposed to indicate the resolution as being 1080 pixles. Wether it's progressive or interlaced shouldn't matter. That's just how it's drawn on the screen. Bottom line is they took advantage of people. Fortunatly I knew enough about it to find the actual panel resolution before buying a TV.

Back to the issue at hand.

HDMI = no workee
VGA = Workee with forced resolution with analog losses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan

 

[Mussels]

i've always had samsung and LG HDTV's look correct.

you often need to change settings (force 16:9, disable overscan, use a select HDMI port thats labelled DVI, etc)

as for the size of the screen - anything over 42" tends to look like crap. 1080p can only be stretched so far without aliasing all the text.



newtekie: 1080i was never 1360x768. 1360x768 panels were replacements for 720p screens (they were cheaper to make, re-using 1024x768 production equipment) - they supported 1080i as a requirement for HDMI certification/compatibility, but it does NOT mean they were 1080i screens. they just supported it as a backup. (i know this, because i own one. 1080i looks like ass if its not the native res of the screen)

 

[newtekie1]

So why didn't they call it 720i or "768i" if they really wanted to be honest about it. Point is... "1080"(x) was supposed to indicate the resolution as being 1080 pixles. Wether it's progressive or interlaced shouldn't matter. That's just how it's drawn on the screen. Bottom line is they took advantage of people. Fortunatly I knew enough about it to find the actual panel resolution before buying a TV.

Well 720i or 768i would both be incorrect, as the panels were capable of 720p/768p. You need to look up what difference the i and p make at the end of these terms because it seems obvious you don't know.

You are arguing for 1080 in general, when I clearly said 1080p means 1920x1080. I never once said 1080i or simply 1080 means 1920x1080, in fact I've directly said that these often referred to panels that were actually 1366x768. That letter at the end makes a huge difference, and it is the reason you and others get taken, and it seems you still don't realize that.

And that leads us back to the original problem, do you actually have a 1080p TV or is it a 1080i? If it is a 1080i that really has a 1366x768 panel in it, then you are going to have the problems you are seeing because you aren't using the native resolution. The will TV accept the signal and then scaling the image, making it look like crap. Find the model of your TVs and look up their actual panel specs, it isn't difficult. I can tell you right now from looking on the Sansui site that they have two 24" TVs available, one is a native 1920x1080 panel and one is a 1366x768. Both will accept a 1080p signal, but only one is really a 1080p monitor. If you got the 1366x768 one then it will look like crap unless you feed it a 1366x768 signal.

 

[Mussels]

newtekie: you're confusing the fact that 768p screens work at 1080i, with what they're sold as. 1080i screens did exist (if uncommon). just because 768p screens work at 1080i is no reason to call them 1080i screens, it just adds to the confusion.


Yes, you could get 768p screens advertised as 1008i capable - but thats why they call them HD (720p/1080i) and full HD (1080p)

The OP needs to find out if his screen is HD or full HD, and go from there. even if its full HD/true 1080p, it doesnt mean its going to look good. cheap HDTV's often have crappy post processing effects or overscan issues that make them useless for PC usage.

 

[Lazzer408]

do you actually have a 1080p TV

Yes. 1920x1080 PROGRESSIVE works fine through the VGA port but Windows didn't detect the display. I had to create a custom resolution. Looks near perfect and fits dot4dot but a digital signal through HDMI should look even better but doesn't.

newtekie: you're confusing the fact that 768p screens work at 1080i, with what they're sold as. 1080i screens did exist (if uncommon). just because 768p screens work at 1080i is no reason to call them 1080i screens, it just adds to the confusion.


Yes, you could get 768p screens advertised as 1008i capable - but thats why they call them HD (720p/1080i) and full HD (1080p)

The OP needs to find out if his screen is HD or full HD, and go from there. even if its full HD/true 1080p, it doesnt mean its going to look good. cheap HDTV's often have crappy post processing effects or overscan issues that make them useless for PC usage.

1920x1080 looks great using the VGA port on the TV. The HDMI input looks like crap and must be scaling somewhere between the input and the panel. There's no PC or gaming mode in the menu. I have 3 HDMI ports but none are labled HDMI(DVI) or HDMI(game), ect. Port 3 I just noticed yesterday because it was apart from the others so I'll try it tomorrow. Maybe there's something special about it.