• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

how to ground my PC and iMac in an old house?

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
Currently I am renting in an old house in Canada, which only has two pronged outlets. I have no clue if there is a grounding wire or romex sheath behind the socket or not; I have an electrician coming soon to take a look at it.

The solution is probably going to be to install a GFCI plug. In the event that I cannot have the GFCI plug grounded... is there any way to ground my PC. The house is all linoleum and hardwood, so no carpet; but the winters get pretty dry and last like 8 months (8 months of winter, 4 months of bad sledding). I'm concerned about my computers getting damaged by ESD. I have an old 24" 2006 iMac, and my linux box is mounted in an Antec 302 case Is there anyway I can ground them? An ESD mat? What safety precautions should I take? Touch a door knob before I touch my keyboards? Touch something else metal before I touch my case or open it up. What are my options?
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,472 (4.25/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
An electrician should be able to run grounding wires up to the outlets that you need them on and install 3 prong sockets. The grounding wires will usually connect to the cold water pipes in the basement/crawl space.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
4,015 (0.80/day)
Location
UK
System Name PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 3600
Motherboard MSI B450 Mortar Max
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC12DX, 3 x NZXT FN 140mm, 1x NZXT FV V2 120mm
Memory 32gb DDR4 3200mhz
Video Card(s) ASUS R9 290 DCII-OC 4GB
Storage corsair mp600 1TB
Display(s) LG 27MB85Z 27" 1440p
Case NZXT Source 340
Power Supply Thermaltake 675w
Mouse Logitech G500S
Keyboard Logitech G510S
Software Windows 8.1 64 bit
Currently I am renting in an old house in Canada, which only has two pronged outlets. I have no clue if there is a grounding wire or romex sheath behind the socket or not; I have an electrician coming soon to take a look at it.

The solution is probably going to be to install a GFCI plug. In the event that I cannot have the GFCI plug grounded... is there any way to ground my PC. The house is all linoleum and hardwood, so no carpet; but the winters get pretty dry and last like 8 months (8 months of winter, 4 months of bad sledding). I'm concerned about my computers getting damaged by ESD. I have an old 24" 2006 iMac, and my linux box is mounted in an Antec 302 case Is there anyway I can ground them? An ESD mat? What safety precautions should I take? Touch a door knob before I touch my keyboards? Touch something else metal before I touch my case or open it up. What are my options?

Well i believe the ground is normally a metal rod to the ground, so it's probably unlikely you cannot get it grounded
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
1,294 (0.18/day)
While it may look a little bit overkill, you could connect your mac and your PC network cards to a 15$ NETGEAR 10/100 switch using FTP ethernet cables.
Then in turn, you would connect the little ground outlet located on the back of this switch to a non-painted metallic surface located somewhere else in the house.
Sorry, couldn't come up with something more simple to properly ground your equipments.

 

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,731 (3.43/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
I always used something like this before I had actual 3 prong outlets... you're supposed to unscrew the plate off the outlet, put the adapter in and put the screw back in through that metal tab on the adapter. How effective this is I don't know...

 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
I always used something like this before I had actual 3 prong outlets... you're supposed to unscrew the plate off the outlet, put the adapter in and put the screw back in through that metal tab on the adapter. How effective this is I don't know...


I seriously doubt the safety of cheater plugs.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
8,068 (1.40/day)
Location
Hillsboro, OR
System Name Main/DC
Processor i7-3770K/i7-2600K
Motherboard MSI Z77A-GD55/GA-P67A-UD4-B3
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14CS/H80
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP /4GB Kingston DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 660 Ti/MSI HD7770
Storage Crucial MX100 256GB/120GB Samsung 830 & Seagate 2TB(died)
Display(s) Asus 24' LED/Samsung SyncMaster B1940
Case P100/Antec P280 It's huge!
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply SeaSonic SS-660XP2/Seasonic SS-760XP2
Software Win 7 Home Premiun 64 Bit
I always used something like this before I had actual 3 prong outlets... you're supposed to unscrew the plate off the outlet, put the adapter in and put the screw back in through that metal tab on the adapter. How effective this is I don't know...

If the outlets aren't grounded, this will not work.
An electrician should be able to run grounding wires up to the outlets that you need them on and install 3 prong sockets. The grounding wires will usually connect to the cold water pipes in the basement/crawl space.
+1 Except that the water system is no longer an accepted ground. When I rewired parts of my house a few years back, I had to replace the "water ground" with 2 8 foot grounding rods driven into the ground 10 feet apart.
Sorry, but there is no cheap solution. This is a major safety issue and needs to be fixed correctly.
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
what's the average cost to install a grounding wire? Can that be done without cutting up the walls?
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
8,068 (1.40/day)
Location
Hillsboro, OR
System Name Main/DC
Processor i7-3770K/i7-2600K
Motherboard MSI Z77A-GD55/GA-P67A-UD4-B3
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14CS/H80
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP /4GB Kingston DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 660 Ti/MSI HD7770
Storage Crucial MX100 256GB/120GB Samsung 830 & Seagate 2TB(died)
Display(s) Asus 24' LED/Samsung SyncMaster B1940
Case P100/Antec P280 It's huge!
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply SeaSonic SS-660XP2/Seasonic SS-760XP2
Software Win 7 Home Premiun 64 Bit
There are too many unknowns. Wait for the electrician.
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
Okay, I got a volt meter, and check the socket. There is a hot wire, a neutral wire and no ground. The metal box the receptacle is in, is not grounded either. An electrician is coming to check and see if it can be grounded to a water pipe or something. Part of me just wants to drive grounding rods outside and run a grounding wire out the window to them.

I found this: dangers of un-grounding your PC, online and am wondering if it's good enough to say F*** it and install an ungrounded GFCI and use a surge protector on that. The GFCI simulates a ground right, and will trip incase a ground is detected? The biggest thing I worry about from that document is the PSU going wonky or "leakage current voltage in case" that would make my case electrified. I have an antec 302. Does anyone know about/use their computer ungrounded?
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
8,068 (1.40/day)
Location
Hillsboro, OR
System Name Main/DC
Processor i7-3770K/i7-2600K
Motherboard MSI Z77A-GD55/GA-P67A-UD4-B3
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14CS/H80
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP /4GB Kingston DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 660 Ti/MSI HD7770
Storage Crucial MX100 256GB/120GB Samsung 830 & Seagate 2TB(died)
Display(s) Asus 24' LED/Samsung SyncMaster B1940
Case P100/Antec P280 It's huge!
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply SeaSonic SS-660XP2/Seasonic SS-760XP2
Software Win 7 Home Premiun 64 Bit
How can you install a GFCI without a ground?
Is it legal where you live to rent/let a residence with wiring like that house has?
At least you don't have an AT form factor computer. It was replaced by ATX. In an AT, wall current ran to the power switch!
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
How can you install a GFCI without a ground?
Is it legal where you live to rent/let a residence with wiring like that house has?
At least you don't have an AT form factor computer. It was replaced by ATX. In an AT, wall current ran to the power switch!

yep, the code here is to replace 2 pronged outlets with GFCI outlets when you can't install a 3 pronged grounded outlet. The Other option here is to ground a 3 pronged outlet to a copper water pipe

& nope, the place I am renting is technically illegal as it's not up to the current electrical codes.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
2,405 (0.37/day)
Location
People's Republic of America
System Name It's just a computer
Processor i9-9900K Direct Die
Motherboard eVGA Z390 Dark
Cooling Dual D5T Vario, XSPC BayRes, Nemesis GTR560, NF-A14-iPPC3000PWM, NF-A14-iPPC2000, HK IV Pro Nickel
Memory G.Skill F4-4500C19D-16GTZKKE or G.Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZ or G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW
Video Card(s) eVGA RTX2080 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 EVO M.2
Display(s) LG 32GK650F
Case Thermaltake Xaser VI
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G/Z-5500
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX-1300
Mouse Logitech
Keyboard Logitech
Software Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
yep, the code here is to replace 2 pronged outlets with GFCI outlets when you can't install a 3 pronged grounded outlet. The Other option here is to ground a 3 pronged outlet to a copper water pipe

& nope, the place I am renting is technically illegal as it's not up to the current electrical codes.

If you are renting, I believe it is the landlords responsibility to bring the building up to code. Why would you want to pay the bill?
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
2,405 (0.37/day)
Location
People's Republic of America
System Name It's just a computer
Processor i9-9900K Direct Die
Motherboard eVGA Z390 Dark
Cooling Dual D5T Vario, XSPC BayRes, Nemesis GTR560, NF-A14-iPPC3000PWM, NF-A14-iPPC2000, HK IV Pro Nickel
Memory G.Skill F4-4500C19D-16GTZKKE or G.Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZ or G.Skill F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW
Video Card(s) eVGA RTX2080 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 EVO M.2
Display(s) LG 32GK650F
Case Thermaltake Xaser VI
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G/Z-5500
Power Supply Seasonic Prime PX-1300
Mouse Logitech
Keyboard Logitech
Software Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
How can you install a GFCI without a ground?
<SNIP>

A GFCI senses, through the integral current coil, an unbalanced current on the grounded phase conductor (neutral).

As with any other device with a grounding conductor, a ground wire only carries current during a fault condition, as when the ungrounded phase conductor (hot) energizes the metal chassis of an appliance, for example.
 

silentbogo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
5,470 (1.45/day)
Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB Samsung DDR4 ECC UDIMM
Video Card(s) Inno3D RTX 3070 Ti iChill
Storage ADATA Legend 2TB + ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
VR HMD Google dreamview headset(aka fancy cardboard)
Software Windows 11, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
You may want to check the wiring behind outlets. Back in a day I did some remodelling in my old apartment in Ukraine, and the ground wire was connected to the outlet casing or not connected at all, since old sockets had no ground connection. Same thing was with light fixtures.

To all that was already said I can add another option:
Ask around for an old voltage stabilizer box. Usually it has a ground connector on the back, so you can either attach a copper rod(80cm or longer) and stick it at least 2m underground, or hook it up to a water pipe. It will be a good solution, if you only need this for 1 location.
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
On the other side of one of my walls is a stove, and on the stove is a 3 pronged outlet...
When I test the hot to ground it reads 120V ac, I'm hoping that the stove is grounded and that my socket on the wall behind it can be grounded to its ground.
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
If you are renting, I believe it is the landlords responsibility to bring the building up to code. Why would you want to pay the bill?

Yah, I may call a building inspector to come check this out, and crack the whip with my landlord.
 

Norton

Moderator - Returning from the Darkness
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
14,108 (3.15/day)
Location
Northeast USA
System Name Main PC- Gamer- Main Cruncher/Folder and too many crunching/folding rigs
Processor Ryzen 5900X- Ryzen 5950X- Ryzen 3950X and etc...
Motherboard Asrock X570 Extreme4- MSI X570S Tomahawk MAX WiFi- MSI B450M Bazooka Max and etc...
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S (dual fan)- EK 360 AIO with push/pull fans- Corsair H115i RGB Pro XT and etc...
Memory 2x16GB GSkill FlareX 3200/c14- 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance 3600/c16- 2x16GB Team 3600/c18 and etc..
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming RX 6800- Asus RTX 3070 TUF OC- MSI Ventus GTX 1660Ti and etc...
Storage Main PC (1TB WD SN850- 2TB PNY CS 3040- 2TB Seagate Firecuda) and etc...
Display(s) Main PC (2x24" Dell UltraSharp U2414H)
Case Phanteks P600s- Seasonic Q704- Fractal Meshify C and etc...
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z625 THX 2.1 speakers
Power Supply EVGA 750 G3- SeaSonic DGC 750- EVGA P2 850 and etc...
Mouse G300s
Keyboard Corsair K65
VR HMD N/A
Software Windows 10 Pro or Ubuntu
Benchmark Scores Why sit on the Bench when you can get in the game and Crunch!!!
In Canada and the United States, two-wire (ungrounded) (NEMA-1) outlets may be replaced with GFCIs to protect against electrocution, and a grounding wire does not need to be supplied to that GFCI. The outlet must be labeled as such. The GFCI manufacturers provide tags for the appropriate installation description. GFCI receptacles can be connected to also protect all the downstream receptacles on that circuit.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFCI#North_America
 

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
In Canada and the United States, two-wire (ungrounded) (NEMA-1) outlets may be replaced with GFCIs to protect against electrocution, and a grounding wire does not need to be supplied to that GFCI. The outlet must be labeled as such. The GFCI manufacturers provide tags for the appropriate installation description. GFCI receptacles can be connected to also protect all the downstream receptacles on that circuit.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFCI#North_America

Yep, that's the exact info I found when I looked into it. Unfortunately life's not worth living when your computer dies, so a socket that'll protect me but not my computer is less than Ideal.
 

Norton

Moderator - Returning from the Darkness
Staff member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
14,108 (3.15/day)
Location
Northeast USA
System Name Main PC- Gamer- Main Cruncher/Folder and too many crunching/folding rigs
Processor Ryzen 5900X- Ryzen 5950X- Ryzen 3950X and etc...
Motherboard Asrock X570 Extreme4- MSI X570S Tomahawk MAX WiFi- MSI B450M Bazooka Max and etc...
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S (dual fan)- EK 360 AIO with push/pull fans- Corsair H115i RGB Pro XT and etc...
Memory 2x16GB GSkill FlareX 3200/c14- 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance 3600/c16- 2x16GB Team 3600/c18 and etc..
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming RX 6800- Asus RTX 3070 TUF OC- MSI Ventus GTX 1660Ti and etc...
Storage Main PC (1TB WD SN850- 2TB PNY CS 3040- 2TB Seagate Firecuda) and etc...
Display(s) Main PC (2x24" Dell UltraSharp U2414H)
Case Phanteks P600s- Seasonic Q704- Fractal Meshify C and etc...
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z625 THX 2.1 speakers
Power Supply EVGA 750 G3- SeaSonic DGC 750- EVGA P2 850 and etc...
Mouse G300s
Keyboard Corsair K65
VR HMD N/A
Software Windows 10 Pro or Ubuntu
Benchmark Scores Why sit on the Bench when you can get in the game and Crunch!!!
Yep, that's the exact info I found when I looked into it. Unfortunately life's not worth living when your computer dies, so a socket that'll protect me but not my computer is less than Ideal.

GFCI for people is more stringent than for devices (read paragraph below the first one):

In Canada and the United States, two-wire (ungrounded) (NEMA-1) outlets may be replaced with GFCIs to protect against electrocution, and a grounding wire does not need to be supplied to that GFCI. The outlet must be labeled as such. The GFCI manufacturers provide tags for the appropriate installation description. GFCI receptacles can be connected to also protect all the downstream receptacles on that circuit.

GFCI devices approved for protection against electric shock trip at 5 mA within 25 ms. A GFCI device which protects equipment (not people) is allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current; this is known as an Equipment Protective Device (EPD). "RCDs" with trip currents as high as 500 mA are sometimes deployed in environments (such as computing centers) where a lower threshold would carry an unacceptable risk of accidental trips. These high-current RCDs serve for equipment and fire protection instead of protection against the risks of electrical shocks
.

A GFCI should protect you and your equipment according to the above

EDIT- Just don't use a surge protector with the GFCI outlet- it will cancel out any protection from the ungrounded GFCI
 
Last edited:

constantgamer247

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
17 (0.00/day)
how can you effectively protect anything without a ground? where is excess electricity going to be diverted to?
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
2,318 (0.35/day)
System Name MONEY PIT
Processor i7-3770K @ 4800 1.20v batch #3231B415 Delided
Motherboard ASrock Z77 OC Formula w onboard waterblocks
Cooling Apogee HD, MCP655,rad MCR320-XP,Micro Rev2 res
Memory G,skill Trident X F3-2400C10D-16GTX
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 980 Ti Classified with EK nickel/acetal waterblock installed
Storage 2x120gig Wildfire raid0 2x120gig VERTEX3 raid0
Display(s) 3/ Samsung2343bwx + 65in LG 4K
Case NZXT Phantom White w/red
Audio Device(s) ReCon3d fatal1ty pro, Logitech z906 THX
Power Supply corsair AX860i
Mouse Rat7
Software 64bit ++++ win 10
On the other side of one of my walls is a stove, and on the stove is a 3 pronged outlet...
When I test the hot to ground it reads 120V ac, I'm hoping that the stove is grounded and that my socket on the wall behind it can be grounded to its ground.
Most stoves run on 220v with a 4 prong plug , ground , common, 2x120v lines. Unless the House is Real old. What part of the Great White North are you in??
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
1,007 (0.18/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360 A-RGB
Memory 32 GB Ballistix Elite DDR4-3600 CL16
Video Card(s) XFX 6800 XT Speedster Merc 319 Black
Storage Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1TB
Display(s) LG 27GL850B x 2 / ASUS MG278Q
Case be quiet! Silent Base 802
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster AE-7 / Sennheiser HD 660S
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 750W Titanium
Software Windows 11 Pro 64
You might want to check out your local hardware / home improvement store for a self-grounding outlet. They are inexpensive and work fairly well.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
2,318 (0.35/day)
System Name MONEY PIT
Processor i7-3770K @ 4800 1.20v batch #3231B415 Delided
Motherboard ASrock Z77 OC Formula w onboard waterblocks
Cooling Apogee HD, MCP655,rad MCR320-XP,Micro Rev2 res
Memory G,skill Trident X F3-2400C10D-16GTX
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 980 Ti Classified with EK nickel/acetal waterblock installed
Storage 2x120gig Wildfire raid0 2x120gig VERTEX3 raid0
Display(s) 3/ Samsung2343bwx + 65in LG 4K
Case NZXT Phantom White w/red
Audio Device(s) ReCon3d fatal1ty pro, Logitech z906 THX
Power Supply corsair AX860i
Mouse Rat7
Software 64bit ++++ win 10
How's the snow:laugh:
Send my electrician bud a text ...he says the GFI plug will work ,the board in it kills the power when a short is found..grounded or not. He also said that you could connect the ground from the GFI to a cold water pipe with a piece of 12 or 16 gauge copper wire as an added precaution.
Should work until you can see about a Grounded line from the box , but that could mean $$$$
 
Top