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anyone have experience with "Kinguin"? seems a bit TOO cheap to be legal to me.

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I buy old games from G2A. Steam prices are a rip off and they should be ashamed selling a 10 year old game for over $15.
 
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It will be an interesting case if it EVER reaches court. Buyer buys product that looks legit, does its research as far as can be reasonably expected, finds nothing strange - versus the EULA that is already been very clearly put on the backbench because (inter)national laws always come first and last. You can put whatever the F ever in your EULA, I honestly don't give a damn. I care about national law, nothing else, and that law offers consumer protection to a great degree and puts the responsibility of a legit product almost entirely in the hands of the seller. The only thing I really NEED to do as a consumer, is convince myself its legit. And when I see OEM keys on Google for 30 bucks a pop, and find them on a keysite for 19-25, I really can't say that 'looks like it is not legit'. All it looks like, is a good and plausible discount. What's more, I have no real, plausible way of finding out a specific key is legit or not.

Thus far, all I see is companies taking the hit themselves, Microsoft included, because it is simply not worth chasing down individual sales and customers for as little as 10-40 bucks per product.

And it will remain so as long as the group that buys these keys doesn't grow exponentially. This goes for Windows keys, but also games.

There are keytools to find out whether keys are legit retail or not.

OEM keys are always illegal to trade, plain and simple. They can never "look legit" if they admit they are OEM openly.

You really aren't doing any due-dilligance as a buyer, and if your key is revoked, you haven't a snowballs chance in hell of getting anything from a court.
 

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I still use G2play which is now under Kinguin anyway. I can't think of the last game I bought that wasn't from there. I must be easy close to a hundred games if easy not more(When Kinguin took over I lost a pretty big database of games. BUT I have never had any issues with anything I have bought be it Triple AA(and I buy almost all of them sometimes months in advanced because of the low price) or a cheap indie, I have Uplay, Origin and TONS of Steam games all from them. In fact that Steam site that tells you how much your account is worth is pretty sparse for 342 because they never saw any money...
 
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There are keytools to find out whether keys are legit retail or not.

OEM keys are always illegal to trade, plain and simple. They can never "look legit" if they admit they are OEM openly.

You really aren't doing any due-dilligance as a buyer, and if your key is revoked, you haven't a snowballs chance in hell of getting anything from a court.

And then you lose what, 5-25 bucks :)

The benefits by far outweigh the risk
 

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yall do realize this thread is 7 months old right
 
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The benefits by far outweigh the risk

Just pirate it then. It's equally illegal and costs less!

Do you see why this logic is an issue?
 
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Just pirate it then. It's equally illegal and costs less!

Do you see why this logic is an issue?

It's the same issue that happens all over the world, called hypocrisy. I am not going to pretend to be the saint that pays the premium for lacking legislation by governments that are too lazy to update law to the new reality they call the internet - a reality that's about as old as myself actually. I'm not paying for somebody else not doing their job, just someone who looks for the best deal for a product. The battle on this issue is not going to be fought with my wallet, simply because my wallet is never going to solve this issue anyway.

Its exactly the same as being overly environmentally friendly - it costs you a shitload of money and the net result is zero because big industries do whatever they can to make profit, look at how long it takes the world to get real on climate change. At the same time I applaud large-scale changes that actually have impact, such as moving from the old fashioned light bulb to LED lighting. These changes need to be win-win, or they won't happen.

In a similar vein, for gaming, the win-win change here is that the prices of games will remain competitive and that the DRM-based shops lose the battle eventually. Steam needs this pressure to stay on edge, for example.

Let's face it, the world isn't built on logic, but on profit and money. Get with the times...
 
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This tends to crop up an awful lot, so I'll quote my last wall of text in response to Grey Market sites:

I feel I should chime in about key selling sites, then after the fact I'd appreciate it if people stuck with the OP's PC build and save the grey market talk for another topic.

Is G2A, G2Play, Kinguin, CJS CD Keys et al illegal? The answer is no. Why? Because they're a marketplace. For the most part (CJS excluded, they buy keys and sell them themselves), they do not buy and sell keys. They're merely a vessel for transactions to be made between the seller and buyer, similar to eBay. They take a cut of the sale, and offer their own "insurance" in case a transaction goes bad. This is mainly because they have to, but also because they don't see the full sale profit, so they charge a few pence in order to cover their expenses for refunds in the event the seller doesn't pay up for a refund.

How are the keys obtained and sold so cheaply? This is where legality and illegality crossover into a "grey" area. For OEM keys, the seller is violating the terms of service. For the buyer, they're not technically doing anything wrong - you could easily claim "ignorance" when pressed by the software manufacturer. The owness is on the seller, but as a buyer you should be street smart; only buy "retail".

For CD keys it comes to a few different options:

The first and most rare occasion is a rogue key generator. Software companies who don't run their own key generation outsource to third parties. These third parties receive generation requests from software developers, and are told to generate a specific amount of keys and send the database to whomever - this may be Steam, it might be GreenManGaming, it might be me (a review key). Assuming the people in "The Circle of Life of Keys" do their jobs properly, the database of keys is managed cleanly, keys are marked off with an owner, a transaction and all other official information, and this is how companies like Ubisoft can tell a legitimate key from an unauthorised sale (that's how Far Cry 3 owners got their keys revoked, the database of keys didn't match up with official transactions from trusted members of "The Circle of Life of Keys"). Sometimes somebody gets a hold of this company's key generator (could be an employee), runs off a batch of keys, and tosses them out into the wild for personal financial gain, obviously selling them at a significantly lower price. Sometimes this is discovered, and in Ubisoft's case, either the keys are revoked or left as a loss. Sometimes nobody ever finds out.

The second is an even rarer occasion, and involves unauthorised distribution of promotional keys. This could be a YouTuber, a Twitcher, or a website that gets sent a batch of a few thousand keys for a promotional offer/competition/review. Sometimes the person that gets sent these promotional keys will sell some or all of them off to a CD key website for money, instead of distributing them to winners of a competition. If I got sent 10,000 keys for X game and only sent out 9,000 and sold the other 1,000 to G2A, who exactly is going to know? Nobody checks, because in some instances, that person isn't held accountable by anyone. We've heard of instances of reviewers being sent review keys and just selling them because they either aren't interested, or they pirate the game and sell the legit copy. It's scum tactics, but believe me, it happens more often than you think. I sometimes don't get review keys for AAA games. That means I miss out on masses of traffic during that release week, because everyone else is reviewing a soon-to-be popular game and I'm not. I choose to review smaller titles legitimately, other more unscrupulous media outlets choose to pirate the game and bang out a review during the same period all the authorised reviewers in order to "cash in" on the spike in potential traffic.

The third is the most common, which is playing the conversion rate on currency. Most "grey" keys are bought legitimately, usually in a country where the currency is absolutely insane. That means a guy in the US can buy Rainbow Six: Siege for $50, however, another guy on the island of Potatoland can buy the same Rainbow Six: Siege game for 5000 potatian dollars. Unfortunately this Potatian's currency is screwed, so the converted cost of 5,000 potatian dollars is around $25. That's cool, Potatoland can buy the game cheaper. Mr Potatian then decides to profit from this, so he creates a piece of software that acts as a Bot on G2A. He decides to sell his Rainbow Six: Siege keys for $28, $2 profit for himself, and $1 for G2A fees. He can't very well buy 5,000 keys all at once, nor can he sit around all day buying the same game over and over whenever he gets a purchase request from a buyer. So he decides to write a program. This program has a Steam account/Online marketplace account for PotatoManGaming, and whenever he gets an order for Rainbow Six: Siege, the program buys the game, then either adds it to his Steam Gifts and automatically emails out the Steam Gift link, or it orders the game from an online outlet and emails the key to the buyer.

Then the really dubious things happen. G2A doesn't add VAT on automatically. After all, it doesn't know if buyers are in the EU or not. So G2A sells everything at ExVAT prices, and then asks the buyer to tick a box that says they're not in the EU and don't pay 20% VAT. Three things happen here:

1: You tick the box blindly. You don't care what it says, you have to tick it so you do and proceed with your transaction - you just accidentally broke the law by committing tax fraid
2: You see the box, know what it says, don't want to pay tax, so you tick it anyway - you just purposefully broke the law by committing tax fraud
3: You select your country and agree to pay 20% VAT - you just bought a potentially illegally obtained key without committing tax fraud, congratz! (It might not have been illegally obtained though!)

The fourth option is wholly illegal, and usually ends badly for everyone - Keys bought with stolen credit cards/PayPal/Bank accounts. This used to be the most common, but not so much any more. Thieves/hackers would steal personal information from random people, buy hundreds of games through legitimate sources with a stolen payment method, and then sell them back on marketplaces like Kinguin/G2A/G2Play. The thief makes way more profit assuming they aren't caught, transfers the funds they made to a different anonymous account, and goes merrily on their way. The bank/PayPal are then told by a customer that their card/account was hacked. PayPal/the bank then kill the account, the card, and any transactions. Because the transactions have been killed, the key is then revoked because the payment is no longer valid - the buyer of said key then has their game/software deactivated. They then have to go to G2A/Kinguin and ask for a refund due to a revoked key - this is where "G2A Shield" comes into play. If you paid for Shield, you get your refund after a long, arduous and immensely frustrating process (it's made this way on purpose because G2A are going to be out of pocket on this transaction, they got screwed, and they really don't want to give you money they don't have any more). You should eventually get a refund though. In the event you didn't insure your transaction - you're screwed and G2Play/Kinguin don't give a damn. Shoulda paid that 0.79c charge.

That's pretty much the tall and the short of it.

Disclaimer: I bought two Windows 8.1 Pro keys (retail, duh) from G2A over two years ago. I paid for Shield, and I did not commit tax fraud. Both are still currently legitimately activated.

EDIT: I actually assisted the developers of Blood Alloy Reborn with a Lithuanian YouTuber who sold some review keys for the game on G2A so I could write an article on the grey market. You can tell a review key, because when you activate it on Steam it comes up as "XXXXX press access added to your account". They were pretty grateful and offered me a free copy of their exceedingly awesome game soundtrack.
 
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Mikro

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We have bought stuff from kinguin only for 10-30€, after christmas. In this month we checked our visa account and there is a payment for kinguin that is made 19th march and the price was about 80€. We definitely have NOT bought anything that costs 80€,, so i wouldnt trust kinguin anymore.
 
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We have bought stuff from kinguin only for 10-30€, after christmas. In this month we checked our visa account and there is a payment for kinguin that is made 19th march and the price was about 80€. We definitely have NOT bought anything that costs 80€,, so i wouldnt trust kinguin anymore.

Did you check to see if your account was stolen?
 
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Ive bought a few games from them. No issues.
 

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Late to the conversation but: http://resellerratings.com/store/KINGUIN

I like to use ResellerRatings.com for times when I'm in question about a certain website.
I use RR when we have to buy obscure laptop or printer parts, and can't locate them from our normal vendors. Everyone is going to have some negative feedback, and I think since people are more likely to complain than complement, probably a higher percentage of complaints. But, if all I see are negatives, or something like a 5 to 1 ratio, I steer clear :)
 
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I've bought several Win10 Keys for under 35 EUros with Kingiun protections and taxes included, they all worked
 
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35 EUros with Kingiun protections and taxes included, they all worked

i think the question is not that they Did, or Do work, but rather Will they Continue to do so.
 
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I have few keys with them, one of it being Windows 10 pro key. I think it's about 2 years old now. Haven't had it revoked.... yet.

Also sold a NUC with a key from them a while ago on Ebay. Haven't heard a peep from the buyer.
 
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I have few keys with them, one of it being Windows 10 pro key. I think it's about 2 years old now. Haven't had it revoked.... yet.

Also sold a NUC with a key from them a while ago on Ebay. Haven't heard a peep from the buyer.
at that point even if it does get revoked, its cheap enough to just buy another.
 
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For Ebay sales, having a windows key registered to any built machine is a huge bonus and makes sales go quickly, so I try to add (cheap) keys to'em. I add additional 50 or so to the price anyway if I do.
 

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Kinguin is no different than ebay, its a platform. 99% of people selling are cool, you always get the odd crook, but kinguin will protect you for years. even if your code gets revoked a year down the line for whatever reason they will refund you.
Its totally legit and safe. People get cheap codes from bundles, from low priced regions, gifts they dont want, games on sale, and post them to resell them.
A lot of pubs even get a cut form Kinguin for their games sold.
Everything else you hear is morons who are clueless and engage in ignorant fearmongering.
 
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Everything else you hear is morons who are clueless and engage in ignorant fearmongering.

The fact that selling out of region is illegal is not "ignorant fearmongering." Almost all the keys there are at the very best case, being sold from a cheaper region to a more expensive one.
 

qubit

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The fact that selling out of region is illegal is not "ignorant fearmongering." Almost all the keys there are at the very best case, being sold from a cheaper region to a more expensive one.
Personally, I think region restrictions should be illegal, so I'd have no moral problem buying a cheaper so-called "out of region" key. The only thing I care about is that the key is likely to get revoked down the line because of this and I just don't need the hassle. Therefore, I'll stick to Amazon, Steam etc to ensure this doesn't happen to me and pay more for the peace of mind.

I've got well over 200 games on Steam, all bought legitimately, so not a single one has had its licence revoked, hence buying legit is worth it.
 
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