German Court Bans Vague Dates like "Coming Soon" in Marketing and Sales

[Brusfantomet]

Investment implies a return on investment and crowdfunding doesn't do that (exception being buying shares in a game at Fig). Crowdfunding is largely based on preorders.

The money spent on crowdfunding is not a purchase, and therefore not a preorder.

Also note the citation marks on the word investment?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The money spent on crowdfunding is not a purchase, and therefore not a preorder.

The $1 tier a lot of developers like to put in there is the only one that doesn't qualify as a preorder. Every tier that promises something for the money spent is a preorder.

Also note the citation marks on the word investment?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp

An investment is an asset or item acquired with the goal of generating income or appreciation. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or will later be sold at a higher price for a profit.

 

[Totally]

No more trouble than they're in any way (usually bankruptcy proceedings). I really don't see any value in this ruling because the specific case, should circumstances warrant it, will be litigated eventually anyway.

But this ruling subjects them to punitive action before the fact, and before any real damages. You might as well said that you see no value in speeding tickets because reckless drivers are going to wreck their vehicles be sued anyway,

 

[FordGT90Concept]

But this ruling subjects them to punitive action before the fact, and before any real damages.

So how were they damaged? I can see right to speedy refund but preemptive punitive action is road best not travelled.

You might as well said that you see no value in speeding tickets because reckless drivers are going to wreck their vehicles be sued anyway,

The national speed limit was created to conserve fuel. The only places where speed limits existed before that were hazard areas (e.g. reverse cambered curves, tight curves, school zones, etc.). Speed limits are created by law and enforced by law enforcers. This was created by a German court enforced by the German court system. See how it's backwards?

 

[Totally]

So how were they damaged? I can see right to speedy refund but preemptive punitive action is road best not travelled.

Let's use the Developers of Star Citizen, who let's face are selling empty promises that individuals have sunk anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousands into a product that may never come because it's in delay/coming soon limbo. To jump into the hypothetical and things finally catch up to them, i.e. people stop giving them money to make a game and they go insolvent. Now we all know these patrons are going to be very lucky if they see any of their money because in bankruptcy proceedings those people will be at the very bottom of the totem pole.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

People who have requested a refund from Cloud Imperium Games have gotten a refund. The vast majority of people are fine with continuing to wait.

 

[eisberg]

The $1 tier a lot of developers like to put in there is the only one that doesn't qualify as a preorder. Every tier that promises something for the money spent is a preorder.


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp

Incorrect, Crowdfunding is not the same thing as pre-ordering, you are only funding an idea, and if that idea comes to fruition you'll get a reward for it.
This ruling will do nothing towards Crowdfunding, because legally they are not the same thing as pre-orders. Crowdfunding goes under the terms of donations, unless it is a loan based crowdfunding or an equity based crowdfunding. Some people, like you, misunderstanding what you are actually paying money for doesn't change the facts about what it is or what it isn't, and what it isn't is a pre-order, it is not even a purchase of the product itself.

People who have requested a refund from Cloud Imperium Games have gotten a refund. The vast majority of people are fine with continuing to wait.

Since January 2018, the only people who got refunds are people who requested a refund with in 14 days of them giving money to CIG. Anybody outside of that 14 days have not received a refund since since Jan 2018

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Incorrect, Crowdfunding is not the same thing as pre-ordering, you are only funding an idea, and if that idea comes to fruition you'll get a reward for it.
This ruling will do nothing towards Crowdfunding, because legally they are not the same thing as pre-orders. Crowdfunding goes under the terms of donations, unless it is a loan based crowdfunding or an equity based crowdfunding. Some people, like you, misunderstanding what you are actually paying money for doesn't change the facts about what it is or what it isn't, and what it isn't is a pre-order, it is not even a purchase of the product itself.

Making a pledge towards a crowdsourced project is effectively a contract that is enforceable by the courts. A preorder is also a contract.

Since January 2018, the only people who got refunds are people who requested a refund with in 14 days of them giving money to CIG. Anybody outside of that 14 days have not received a refund since since Jan 2018

Source?

 

[Totally]

People who have requested a refund from Cloud Imperium Games have gotten a refund. The vast majority of people are fine with continuing to wait.

It was not an easy process for the people getting their refunds and since then CIG have changed their policy.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Great news, this is a good, common sense ruling.

Agreed. We desperately need this stateside.

Now, if that disastrous brexit doesn't happen, it will apply to sunny Britain too.

You started out good and end with that. "Brexit" is a win for the UK. Even if you don't agree, opinion is irrelevant, the voters spoke, that matter is concluded and it is now done, but I digress..

 

[R-T-B]

They're always preorders

I think even their legalese is very careful to point out they are not in fact, preorders, but sponsorships with possible bonuses.

You started out good and end with that. "Brexit" is a win for the UK. Even if you don't agree, opinion is irrelevant, the voters spoke, that matter is concluded and it is now done, but I digress..

Actaully, what he said is true. If brexit is somehow avoided (and yes, it could be legally reversed) it would apply to the UK.

The following political tangent here is on you.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The following political tangent here is on you.

Everyone has a different take on the situation, but let's let it go.

 

[qubit]

Agreed. We desperately need this stateside.

You started out good and end with that. "Brexit" is a win for the UK. Even if you don't agree, opinion is irrelevant, the voters spoke, that matter is concluded and it is now done, but I digress..

Err, no. We can't discuss it here though. It would have to be the lounge or pm if you really wanna talk about it.

 

[Goloith]

RIP Star Citizen if you don't get an official date posted.

People who have requested a refund from Cloud Imperium Games have gotten a refund. The vast majority of people are fine with continuing to wait.

Refunds on purchases older than 14 days stopped in February of this year actually.