Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[Retrorockit]

Everyone forgets the Nehalem Xeons. But with 3 channel DDR3 support and hyperthreading probably the best bang for the buck in unlocked CPUs. It doesn't hurt to have one around in case you get a system with an older BIOS that won't boot the 6 cores.
But the W3680 is the favorite for TS overclocking. No known adavntage to the pricier W3690 when overclocking.

 

[unclewebb]

were we able to confirm the W3680/i7-980X were unlocked?

The W3680 is definitely unlocked, multiplier and TDP / TDC. This allows you to run full speed while fully loaded without any throttling.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/post-3799652

I paid about $80 U.S. this time last year and now they are down to ~$50 U.S. on EBay.
No regrets. Most CPUs depreciate that much the moment you walk out of the computer store.

 

[Susquehannock]

"Not that anyone runs Prime95 for 24 hours straight, " ..... I do, and more. Small FFTs is only way my W3680 at 4.0ghz (max mine is stable) will go over 50-c with stock heatsink and 80mm fan. Would it overclock higher with a bigger cooler? Not likely.

[edit]

Everyone forgets the Nehalem Xeons. But with 3 channel DDR3 support and hyperthreading probably the best bang for the buck in unlocked CPUs. It doesn't hurt to have one around in case you get a system with an older BIOS that won't boot the 6 cores.
But the W3680 is the favorite for TS overclocking. No known adavntage to the pricier W3690 when overclocking.

What Nehalem Xeon are unlocked?

Interesting to watch pricing. Got my W3680 for $35 and now they have risen to $50 again. Couple years ago X5687 were $80-90 and now sell for $35.

 

[Retrorockit]

The BCLK overclockers are getting 4.4-4.5Ghz out of X58 systems. It remains to be seen what TS can do with extra cooling. But throttling probably isn't happeneing at 50*c. so you may be right.
The unlocked Nehalems are the W3570, W3580 there is no W3590 ASFAIK.
W3680 went from $35 to $80 and if they're down to $50 that's good news. It's still saving $150 on an unlocked X58 MB. Sometimes you can just spec. an unlocked CPU on a T3500 from one of the dealers for little or no extra cost.
Personally for gaming or benchmarking I don't care what speed 12 threads of Prime 95 runs at. I'll take 4.3Ghz on 6 threads any day. But for VMs or serious workstation use with ECC RAM that's a different story.
The BCLK overclockers aren't interested in the unlocked CPUs. They get just as much out of the cheaper mid level 2 QPI Xeons. X5650.X5660,X5675 are popular. If you already own an unlocked X58 MB it makes sense.

 

[Susquehannock]

Ahh, got it. Had me confused for a minute. Those are Bloomfield. And both basically the same thing at our end. The W3570 are inexpensive now. Wonder how they would perform at 4.0ghz (if they get there) in a gaming system compared to the W3680 given they have less cores and smaller Cache.

 

[Retrorockit]

If the game doesn't need the cores probably pretty similar. Yes the Nehalem/Bloomfield and Westmere/ Gulftown multi level naming "system" is pretty flaky.
BTW what CPU Voltage are you getting at 4GHz, and are you using TS or XTU for your overclock?

 

[Aaron_Henderson]

Ahh, got it. Had me confused for a minute. Those are Bloomfield. And both basically the same thing at our end. The W3570 are inexpensive now. Wonder how they would perform at 4.0ghz (if they get there) in a gaming system compared to the W3680 given they have less cores and smaller Cache.

I have a W3570 but it's only stable at 3.86GHz on all cores, though I set the 1/2/3 core turbo to 4GHz and it's fine. I can run some gaming benchmarks if you'd like to compare, though I don't have many recent games.

 

[Retrorockit]

FWIW the 45nm LGA775 Q9650 would routinely go 4.15 Ghz with TS in the Dell T3400
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11680552

 

[Susquehannock]

I have a W3570 but it's only stable at 3.86GHz on all cores, though I set the 1/2/3 core turbo to 4GHz and it's fine. I can run some gaming benchmarks if you'd like to compare, though I don't have many recent games.

Thanks but it's not that important. Was just curious since I am well aquainted with how the W3565 perform in these. The W3570 is interesting since it is inexpensive, unlocked, and allows 1333mhz RAM. Great option for those looking to upgrade.

If the game doesn't need the cores probably pretty similar. Yes the Nehalem/Bloomfield and Westmere/ Gulftown multi level naming "system" is pretty flaky.
BTW what CPU Voltage are you getting at 4GHz, and are you using TS or XTU for your overclock?

Sure is. No wonder pricing on the W3680 has changed so much. Seems many didn't realize they were 32nm chips. And unlocked at that.

Both work equally well for me but find myself using XTU more often for the interface and graphs. HWmonitor shows max of 143.74 watts at full load.

 

[Retrorockit]

The W3680/90 was a secret for a long time. I had to decide whether to publish it for this thread, or keep it under wraps. The thought of all the Dell T3500 going to the landfill when they could be converted to gaming rigs won out. The price doubled for a while right after I started this thread. Now it's back down to about where it was before. But the i7 Xtremes were always even more expensive, and X58 unlocked MB aren't cheap either. A T3500 ,W3570, 6GB system can be had for about $100. Add a GTX 1060 3GB with a 1080P monitor and it would be a pretty nice low buck gaming rig. Add in the fact that there's a clear upgrade path to 6C/12T 4.3Ghz 48GB 1440K system with ECC RAM if needed and it's not a bad place to start. Of course 12GB RAM and a GTX 1060 6GB would be better. But if rock bottom pricing is what you need I think these are hard to beat.

 

[Susquehannock]

That is where all these were headed before my friend intercepted them - the recycling dumpster. Yes. I remember. You were the one who clued me in on the overclocking - in private messages. Think we both were on the leading edge somewhat. Back about 2.5 years ago when these boxes started coming my way there was precious little info on gaming with T3500. Everyone said you cannot fit a full sized graphics card, the 6-pin PCIe connector cannot provide more than 75 watts of power, they are not compatible with Westmeres, etc. Within a few weeks showing things to the contrary I was besieged with people asking questions.

Even some of the larger retailers are getting into the T3500 gaming ring now. Noticed these at MicroCenter. One has 16gb RAM. Cannot think of any config that would allow it to run triple channel. And good chance they are using 1066mhz memory with those W3565. Otherwise the W3570 would be a nice cheap upgrade.

 

[Retrorockit]

Yes you were the Dell workstation modder, and I was the Dell/TS overclocker. That and Unclewebb clarifying how to apply the settings on X58 got this thing going.

 

[OEMOC]

I wanted to start off by thanking unclewebb, Susquehannok, and Retrorockit for your respective work that's culminated into tinkerers being able to breathe new life into cheap, generations old, hardware. I've read every page of discussion here and am pretty set on upgrading to an oem x58 based mobo/cpu given how dirt cheap such would be for me.

I've been looking for something to replace my overclocked fx-6100 (USBM = 54.4%) based rig. It's starting to show it's age when playing CPU demanding titles like Wreckfest and Beamng. Seeing a w3680 @4ghz getting around a 75% in userbench has me excited to upgrade. Since I already have a rig with a hyper 212, all I'll need is a mobo, w3680, and some TS elbow grease of which I should be able to do for under $70 all in. If I can stick to that budget the upgrade will be pretty much free after I sell my current mobo/cpu.

So I've done my homework on both the t3400 9kpnv, hp z400 (6 ram slot). However I'd rather deal with a non atx, and propertairy fan header, and having to turn my pc on with the ps3 switch of the t3400 over messing with power 24 pin out of the z400. I'm starting to lurk more OEM mobos mentioned here like Alienware, Studio 9000, and the Lenovo s20 in case there is some cheap gold to be found. I do have a few questions for you gurus, and I'd really appreciate any insight you can afford me:

1)Are there any boards close to the price of a t3400 ($25-30) that would be more ATX friendly and not require 24 pin mods or fan header adapters?
2) How hard is to to mount an aftermarket cooler to a t3400 9kpnv like a hyper 212?
3) I'd like to use my current ram. Are these OEM boards picky about the memory used?
4) What's a cheap 1366 cpu that can be used on all OEM boards so I can flash a 6c compliant bios?
5) I know that newer intel chipset and AMD display drivers fixed the problems with using an rx 480-580 on t3400 motherboards. Is this true of all other OEM 1366 boards?

I plan on keeping progress of my endeavours, and eventual success story here.

 

[Retrorockit]

The T3400 is an LGA775 board and won't support the W3680 CPU. You need the X58 based T3500 to get into the 75-80% range.
The Z400 is an ATX layout. You need to get the later version with 6 RAM slots to support the later CPUs, and there's a wiring mod needed on the 24 pin ATX connector. HP stayed with the 4 pin CPU plug, and added 2x 12V. wires to the 24 pin instead. Aaron Henderson in the Dell Workstation Owners Club is the guy for HP mods. Fujitsu, Siemens, Lenovo and others made LGA1366 workstation motherboards that may be ATX compliant. But you will be on your own with those as far as any proprietary issues.
Dell uses low density RAM (x64), AMD high density (x128) RAM won't work.
The W3570 45nm 4C/8T is an unlocked early CPU and goes for about $20. Basically any 3500 or 5500 series Xeon will work on an early BIOS.
Dell CPU back plate is made onto the MB. Thermalright mounting hardware willl interface with the threads Dell uses. Post #584 has an aftermarket cooler mod that attaches easily. But generally nothing bolts on without some modding. Dell has 4 male threaded studs sticking up out of the MB.

 

[Retrorockit]

I came across something that may be of interest to those who feel X58 is too retro.
The Dell T3610 LGA2011 system. It's not X79, but C602 chipset and overclocking ASFAIK is unknown. But there are plenty of unlocked X79 Xeons and with 4 channel DDR3 RAM it's a pretty potent system as is.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
These guys like it. But I can't confirm that all their CPU choices like the 150W or 8 core CPUs actually work in the Dell.
https://www.greenpcgamers.com/technology/awesome-precision-t3610-gaming-computer/
Here are a couple unlocked X79 CPU threads.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/
https://www.overclock.net/forum/8-i...king-x79-x99-beyond-x58-178.html#post27903282

 

[BouziGolouM]

does anyone have the max multiplier list for each Xeon 56**?? can't seem to find the data.

 

[ManGupta]

I came across something that may be of interest to those who feel X58 is too retro.
The Dell T3610 LGA2011 system. It's not X79, but C602 chipset and overclocking ASFAIK is unknown. But there are plenty of unlocked X79 Xeons and with 4 channel DDR3 RAM it's a pretty potent system as is.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
These guys like it. But I can't confirm that all their CPU choices like the 150W or 8 core CPUs actually work in the Dell.
https://www.greenpcgamers.com/technology/awesome-precision-t3610-gaming-computer/
Here are a couple unlocked X79 CPU threads.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/
https://www.overclock.net/forum/8-i...king-x79-x99-beyond-x58-178.html#post27903282

As per Dell Support -

"The highest rated CPU that Dell sold with the T3610 was the E5-2650 v2 (2.6 GHz, L3 20 MB, 8-core, Turbo 3.4 GHz, 95 watt TDP) so it cannot be guaranteed that CPUs of a higher spec will work. "
It supports DDR3 800/1066/1333/1600/1866 .

List of CPU that C602 supports are in this link but Dell have officially tested only upto E5-2650 V2.

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel_(chipsets)/C602.html

 

[Retrorockit]

At userbenchmark.com the highest CPU scores are for the E5-1650 v2
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
I'm not real clear on this system. I think Dell sold it with RDIMM and dual CPU Xeons. But I may be confusing it with the T3600.
The single CPU Xeon is where you should be looking for an unlocked CPU to overclock. Might not support RDIMM with that CPU.
I see T3600 running E5 1650 v.0 also.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3600/1882
It looks like there may be a way forward here.

 

[BouziGolouM]

The single CPU Xeon is where you should be looking for an unlocked CPU to overclock. Might not support RDIMM with that CPU.
It looks like there may be a way forward here.

The only xeon that has a known unlocked multiplier is the E5 1860v2 and it's a pretty beast in itself. This can still compete with today's CPU

 

[Retrorockit]

The only xeon that has a known unlocked multiplier is the E5 1860v2 and it's a pretty beast in itself. This can still compete with today's CPU

These guys seem to think there are a lot of them.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/
But we've also found CPUZ to be unreliable for checking this with several false positives on X 58 CPUs.
My understanding is Intel released a lot of unlocked Xeons by mistake, and also that newer firmware/drivers tries to lock them back up. But I'm not aware of any direct confirmation of this. This information gets buried in the chatter at BIOS overclocking websites because those guys don't deem it to be important.

I looked into the CPUZ scores for the E5 1650 v2 and found a lot of multiplier overclocks there. Some of them by people I know from Overclock.net. ( Aleslammer is in X58 Xeon club) They're spread evenly up and down the chart, not just off the top like the bogus ones. It looks to me like a legit unlocked CPU.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0552045352d31363530207632204020332e353047487a
They rate it between the i7 700, and i7 7700k in the performance chart.
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/ibkw1c/8
The E5 1650 for the T3600 looks unlocked also and all the OC are 5GHz on the chart. the v2 is mostly 4.7-4.8GHz
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...350552045352d313635302030204020332e323047487a

 

[Caring1]

Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).

 

[EarthDog]

Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).

its unlocked to turbo speeds only. Not truly an unlocked processor. This is how most modern with turbo 'locked' processors work.

 

[Retrorockit]

We haven't found any dual CPU unlocked Xeons since the old LGA771 Skulltrail QX9775.
The multiplier of 36 is for the single core turbo speed of 3.6GHz.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-e5-2680-v2-25m-cache-2-80-ghz.html
By unlocked we mean with no effective upper limit like the Extreme series. Some of the chips I listed are being run as high as 50x100 or even more.
There may be some potential to access some of that speed with Intel XTU. But for Throttlestop overclocking we're looking for the fully unlocked multiplier CPUs.
But if TS lets you go from 2.8Ghz on all cores to 3.6GHz all cores then it's all good. It doesn't cost anything to try it.

 

[BouziGolouM]

Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).

How far can you OC it (if you can), wanted to get a 1680V2, out of price range, so were looking at the other 8 cores variant, but could settle up with 10....

 

[juiseman]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Del...-AKHSUiC_kQuw0IygMoAg#spd=8271571328430217770

There is a few T3610's for $200-$300, not bad for a complete computer, just add your choice SSD and GPU....