Batman Returns

[tabascosauz]

Hmmm, wonder if the C14S's built-in physical offset would offset that issue physically.


View attachment 133228

It doesn't seem like it would be a problem if the A14 is on top, like you would have it. But I would need it below the sink for 115mm height, at which point it most likely interferes. The offset is to guarantee PCIe slot placement, which is not an issue as DTX's x16 slot is still in the same place, but the M.2 daughterboard is located quite a bit above the x16.

It's too hard to judge the height of the daughterboard from pictures alone. All I can tell is that it's taller than the already massive I/O area, but have no point of reference to a Trident Z heatspreader, for example.

 

[E-curbi]

It doesn't seem like it would be a problem if the A14 is on top, like you would have it. But I would need it below the sink for 115mm height, at which point it most likely interferes. The offset is to guarantee PCIe slot placement, which is not an issue as DTX's x16 slot is still in the same place, but the M.2 daughterboard is located quite a bit above the x16.

It's too hard to judge the height of the daughterboard from pictures alone. All I can tell is that it's taller than the already massive I/O area, but have no point of reference to a Trident Z heatspreader, for example.

They're both good looking motherboards. Not sure what the extra $170 actually gets you with the C8Impact. I just don't follow Ryzen closely enough to know if paying more is going to get you any higher CPU or ddr4 overclocks or lower stable voltages at same available clocks.

The Ryzen memory latency penalty seems fixed at 3800Mhz 64ns latency and the CPU single core overclocks are higher at stock than manual OC? Is that actually true?

If those facts and values are true, then why pay $599 for an X570 Crosshair Formula, when the X570 Crosshair Hero at $359 has the same exact VRM section and capability?

Aesthetics maybe I guess.

Same argument could be made for the Crossfire VIII Impact vs Stryx X570 mini-ITX Gaming.

The C8Impact is just a very out-there forward-thinking design, whether it actually gets you any additional performance? I just don't know.

Here's a C8I breakdown The Zoid posted about 10days ago, goes over many overclocking features, but if the CPUs are not so capable, then some features are maybe only for LN2 cooling or some scenario other than ambient? Other than it being a very cool board layout, I don't know if it's worth that extra money, has to be a personal choice.

I do know very intimately that higher-binned Intel processors and motherboards with improved VRM sections Do Allow you to run much lower voltage at every stable clock speed available to the CPU - lower voltage = less heat to manage.

I just don't know if the same is true with Ryzen, and if paying more for a X570 performance motherboard assists with achieving those lower voltage bios profiles. Although it does on the Intel side of things.

 

[tabascosauz]

The C8I shares the exact same VRM as the Strix. 4(x2)+2 running on a IR35201 with TDA21472s. So in that sense, the extra $200+ nets you nothing in actual performance, as the heatsink setup is the same, too. Both heatpiped and share two fans with PCH.

As we all know, Ryzen doesn't OC at all this generation, so the C8I has no advantage there. When it comes to undervolting boost clocks, when the chip runs into its lower Vcore limits, it'll let you know, and the choice of board doesn't really matter (unless it's a X570 Pro4 we're talking about, then we're really in the dankest of VRM sewers then). The two boards are going to have the same BIOS, with the same IR35201 behind the scenes, so Load Line Calibration capabilities should be the same.

Yes, boost generally gets you farther than manual clocks, to a point. Manual 4.4GHz on P95, for example, will probably be unsustainable due to the sheer amount of power draw and heat output, as manual OCs don't abide by power and current limitations. The boost will allow you to hit 4.4GHz in benchmarks that need it, and scale back when you hit power limits. PBO on/off then decides how long the chip will hold boost clocks before scaling back, but you don't need it to hit boost.

Judging from how even the 3700X behaves when the proverbial gloves come off, I suspect that very, very few people will have the cooling prowess necessary to hold a 3900X and 3950X to maximum boost clock, at manual clock settings. The TDA21472s will be having a great time, but that's not to say that the 3950X or one's ears will be feeling the same way.

So yeah, I really don't know. Maybe if one just really couldn't live without the side-mounted 8-pin EPS, which is nice to have but not nearly a necessity. Or if one just really wanted to have both M.2s on the front of the board, despite both of them being PCIe 4.0 x4.

Isn't it kind of the same deal with the Strix-E and the Hero, though? ASUS is giving us a lot of choices, don't get me wrong, but having a cheaper board that gets the expensive board's feature set kind of undermines their business model.


Oh, also, got the 2060S today. It's definitely an Apple-esque product in terms of build quality. ACX3.0 was good, but these FE cards blow everything out of the water.

 

[E-curbi]

The C8I shares the exact same VRM as the Strix. 4(x2)+2 running on a IR35201 with TDA21472s. So in that sense, the extra $200+ nets you nothing in actual performance, as the heatsink setup is the same, too. Both heatpiped and share two fans with PCH.

As we all know, Ryzen doesn't OC at all this generation, so the C8I has no advantage there. When it comes to undervolting boost clocks, when the chip runs into its lower Vcore limits, it'll let you know, and the choice of board doesn't really matter (unless it's a X570 Pro4 we're talking about, then we're really in the dankest of VRM sewers then). The two boards are going to have the same BIOS, with the same IR35201 behind the scenes, so Load Line Calibration capabilities should be the same.

Yes, boost generally gets you farther than manual clocks, to a point. Manual 4.4GHz on P95, for example, will probably be unsustainable due to the sheer amount of power draw and heat output, as manual OCs don't abide by power and current limitations. The boost will allow you to hit 4.4GHz in benchmarks that need it, and scale back when you hit power limits. PBO on/off then decides how long the chip will hold boost clocks before scaling back, but you don't need it to hit boost.

Judging from how even the 3700X behaves when the proverbial gloves come off, I suspect that very, very few people will have the cooling prowess necessary to hold a 3900X and 3950X to maximum boost clock, at manual clock settings. The TDA21472s will be having a great time, but that's not to say that the 3950X or one's ears will be feeling the same way.

So yeah, I really don't know. Maybe if one just really couldn't live without the side-mounted 8-pin EPS, which is nice to have but not nearly a necessity. Or if one just really wanted to have both M.2s on the front of the board, despite both of them being PCIe 4.0 x4.

Isn't it kind of the same deal with the Strix-E and the Hero, though? ASUS is giving us a lot of choices, don't get me wrong, but having a cheaper board that gets the expensive board's feature set kind of undermines their business model.

Same VRM sections, then it's a no brainer - grab the Strix and save the $170.

Yea someone at Asus believes they need a motherboard product stack targeted at every $25 price point between $125 and $600, it's a bit crazy.

Also makes it extremely difficult to choose a new motherboard, and that's only one brand. Try doing the same comparison with multiple boards within multiple product lines within multiple manufacturers.

Sheesh.

I'm kinda glad I found 2dimm slot single-thread boards and feel right at home with them. Not very many E-ATX 2dimm slot motherboard choices for me to consider or get confused over.

Just take my $500 every 2-3years. lol

---------

Also, congratulations on the 2060 Super FE. Looks really nice man, nice packaging also. Is the rear I/O plate really blacked-out? Or does that only appear in the photos/renders?

 

[tabascosauz]

Same VRM sections, then it's a no brainer - grab the Strix and save the $170.

Yea someone at Asus believes they need a motherboard product stack targeted at every $25 price point between $125 and $600, it's a bit crazy.

Also makes it extremely difficult to choose a new motherboard, and that's only one brand. Try doing the same comparison with multiple boards within multiple product lines within multiple manufacturers.

I'm kinda glad I found 2dimm slot single-thread boards and feel right at home with them. Not very many E-ATX 2dimm slot motherboard choices for me to consider or get confused over.

---------

Also, congratulations on the 2060 Super FE. Looks really nice man, nice packaging also. Is the rear I/O plate really blacked-out? Or does that only appear in the photos/renders?

That's what you can do when you're market leader throw money into pointless products that no one needed. I'm surprised it took me this long to realize that the Z390 only had two DIMMs and the entire socket and power delivery area is rotated 90 degrees. I guess when you think about it, you only want 2 DIMMs for overclocking anyways.

Yep, the I/O plate is matte black. Blends in very well with the back of the M1. It may not be priced for value, but I think the 2060 FE cooler is an example of a cooler done right. The FEs are cards that I would be proud to put on top of a Stinger board, aside a U12S Chromax and white Trident Z.

 

[sexpot]

Hey guys, I'm going to be on hiatus for a bit. Good news is that ASUS now sells the Apex XI and Gene XI in North America. Head over to Newegg to pick one up or see if your local retailer can order one in for you.

Bruce check your pm for a surprise!

 

[E-curbi]

Hey guys, I'm going to be on hiatus for a bit. Good news is that ASUS now sells the Apex XI and Gene XI in North America. Head over to Newegg to pick one up or see if your local retailer can order one in for you.

Bruce check your pm for a surprise!

Is there a newborn baby in my mailbox? lolol Did you name him Sir Bruceypoo McPooperface the 3rd? That can be his nickname at 4am diaper changing time.

-----

About that Maximus XI Apex:

I do know the Siliconlottery.com guy tested a small number of his 9900K CPUs that exceeded his battery of stability testing at 5.1Ghz using the Maximus XI Hero boards and an AIO, a few (small number) of those same 5.1Ghz binned 9900K CPUs exceeded the same stability tests at 5.3Ghz using the Maximus XI Apex board and a custom water loop. Obviously, much improved VRM sections on the M11Apex boards vs the M11Hero.

Same should be true for the 9900KS processors launching this month October or next month November.

Yet for the SL guy to find those 5.3Ghz (with H20) 9900KS superchips he needs time to test a good sample size, maybe the first day he bins and sells the 9900KS he finds one? OR it may take 30days - 60days to find that small percentage that look REALLY GOOD during the standardized Hero XI testing and Double-Bin those few again with an Apex XI board.

9900KS super-high silicon efficient cherry-binned 5.3Ghz + Maximus XI Apex = match made in heaven. Just Add Water. lolol

...and some fast ddr4 sticks woohoo!

Now that the Maximus XI Apex is FINALLY available with a 3-year warranty in the US and Canada. Oh Happy Day!

And at only $379 at Newegg, woohoo sweet price Asus.

Have a strong feeling Asus ROG finally made the Apex 11 available in North America because the CFL Refresh 9900KS is launching this month. OH well, better (VERY) late, than never.

 

[E-curbi]

OH MY Goodness! I just saw the MOST ADORABLE baby in my PM mailbox in my entire life!

Sexpot and his wife just had a healthy newborn BOY and his name is Aiden, which is a much better name than Brucey McPoopyface the 3rd.

Hey Aiden, do you like older women? We have a 3year old. She's extremely funny and all her friends tell her she doesn't look a day over 8months. lololol

 

[sexpot]

OH MY Goodness! I just saw the MOST ADORABLE baby boy in my entire life!

Sexpot and his wife just had a healthy newborn BOY and his name is Aiden, which is a much better name than Brucey McPoopyface the 3rd.

Hey Aiden, do you like older women? We have a 3year old. She's extremely funny and all her friends tell her she doesn't look a day over 8months. lololol

Let's revisit in 18 years, haha.

 

[E-curbi]

Someone asked me this question in email yesterday, so I thought I'd answer him here since the early stuff always helps newcomers get started.

The question was the same one we've all heard, which PSU wattage rating to buy for my new system and how many drives can I run?


My answer from long ago, still seems semi-accurate:


Try using one of the free PSU calculators online to estimate your total system watts.

Here's a few to check out:

https://seasonic.com/wattage-calculator#
http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/
https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
https://www.bequiet.com/en/psucalculator
http://powersupplycalculator.net/

As far as calculating watts used per type of drive:

Search for the spec-data sheet for the HDDs drives brand and series and capacity you intend to use. Like this Seagate Barracuda PRO sheet below. It will tell you idle watts and load (operating) watts for each capacity of the drive series.

Do you plan on RAIDing the drives?

Will all your HDDs be running at once in a RAID array? or only a single drive, while the others remain idle?

https://www.seagate.com/www-content/...07US-en_US.pdf

A Seagate 12TB HDD uses 8watts at load according to the spec sheet. If you plan on using (10) HDDs at load all running simultaneously, that's still only 80watts.


My Samsung 860 Pro SATA SSDs use only 2watts at load, I have (4) total = 8watts

https://s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws....eet_Rev1_1.pdf

NVMe drives use a bit more power about 4 to 6watts per drive at load:

https://s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws....et_Rev.1.0.pdf

Intel Optane AIC PCIe SSDs can use up to 14watts at load:

https://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/Optan...sDatasheet.pdf


1) Calculating your total system watts from datasheets for all your individual components is going to be more accurate than using any of the PSU calculators listed above.

2) Although, I don't remember the last time I used either method, since I haven't built an entire system from all new components umm - ever. I've always used "simple incremental upgrades over time" since 2009 when I transferred parts from an old Dell and built my first custom PC with a heatpipe cooled Zalman PSU and CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000, never an entire build at once. Who can afford that?

Simply adding one or two parts (mobo and CPU at the most) to a system I already know the watts used at idle and various loads from reading a Kill A Watt meter early on and the last 5years APC battery backups that provide watts used as a digital display menu selection, so I already have an established watts used value and only need to add/change for the additional component(s), but I'm weird

.

3) A really good idea would be to build your basic system: platform only CPU mobo memory and O/S boot drive, CPU cooler either AIO pump and fans or good air, the fans alone, just the basics so you can boot, using your current PSU, build it on the mobo box nice and clean and use one of these inexpensive Kill A Watt meters from Amazon or anywhere for about $18. Then you can establish your baseline number "system watts needed" at idle and various load scenarios, and can decide from there how many HDDs SSDs you really want in your system, and all other additional components pwr consumption, then decide which PSU is right for your new build. You can keep using the Kill A Watt meter for a single build, it will tell you the change in idle and gaming watts, working watts, O/S drive reformatting watts (writing to the drive) etc when you make additional upgrades, a nice tool to have around. (pic below)

4) If you're using your rig for work and find you really like knowing your watts pulled from the wall and want a battery backup as well from thunderstorms, brownouts, sometimes our power here will click off/on momentarily for no apparent reason, I don't want to lose my work, so I got into APC battery backup units about 5years ago, about 2013. The better models offer "Watts Used" for every device you have plugged into the unit, I've had three of the APC units, both with (6) or (8) power ports or outlets. I have both my rigs and a single display plugged into the APC battery backup, so to get an accurate reading of watts from either rig, I turn off the rig I'm not using, turn off the 27inch display and what's (watts

) left is power consumption of the system/rig I'm reading from the APC digital display. They can be costly, my first unit was an APC SMT 750VA about $275 (pic below). They last forever though, I never even changed the battery in that unit, kept it for 4.5years, sold it for $100, so total cost of ownership was $175 over 4.5years. Now I'm using the APC BR1000MS 1000VA about $148. Just make sure you choose an UPS with a pure sine wave output from battery, that's what the latest Active PFC power supplies need to continue working and for a clean and stable shutdown of your gear, if the power goes out.


It really just depends on how far you want to get into it. The Kill A Watt units work just fine, and only $18.