Motherboard question - need help

[Ysko]

Guys and girls!

Im building new and want to upgrade only proccesor when it gets old

For now i have:
Ryzen 3600
2070S gigabyte gaming oc
Corsair 750W gold


Still missing motherboard and RAM.
For the RAM part i wanna pick 3200 CL 14 32 GB
Still cant decide on motherboard.
Was thinking alot about ASUS Crosshair 7. Is this MB worth buying? Will it support new ryzens when they come out?
Or maybe i should get some new x570 board with that crappy chipset fan ?

Appreciate for all answers!

 

[JackCarver]

The Crosshair seems to be a decent mainboard. According to a list of hardwareluxx it has a 10 phase vcore vrm of International Rectifier 60A power stages. So should also be sufficient for the new Ryzen 4000 CPUs. According to AMD the am4 chipset should also support the new Ryzen 4000 CPUs, so yes this Board should support it.

 

[Dixevil]

you can't even hear "crappy chipset fan" working, so it's a bit exaggerated.

 

[Zach_01]

FYI, Vcore phases count and power stage Amps dont mean a lot by their own. All this have a meaning in conjunction with the main power controller, the phase doublers (if are present) and the efficiency of each power stage.
My board has 12 Vcore phases (doubling 6x2) and 40A power stages but each stage has great efficiency. I've seen it in tests handling an OCed 3900X to a 225W configuration and it did very well (temps) while surpassing stronger (50/60A) power staged boards (same 6x2).

Im not saying the Crosshair VII is not a solid board for ZEN3(4000series). Just clarifing some facts.
If you want to see what those VRMs are capable of then search below...

Actually Hardcore Overclocking

www.youtube.com

As for the X570 chipset fan I also say that its has been exaggerated.
First of all the fan is silent enough even at high speeds. Starts at 1500 up to 5500~6000rpm, but second... I never use it. Its stopped by BIOS setting and I have a low (800~1000rpm) speed 120mm case fan close to PCH heatsink. The chipset now with ambient 22~23C is around 40C on idle low loads and 45C gaming. During summer (Aug) with 32C ambient the temp was 48~53C. Critical temp is 95 or 105C, I'm not sure.

 

[EarthDog]

Or maybe i should get some new x570 board with that crappy chipset fan ?

They aren't crappy. On most you cannot hear it in the first place...


If you want next gen support, go X570 based mobo.

 

[JackCarver]

Sure they have a no meaning of their own. But the IR3555 are also used in many of the X570 Boards and they aren't crap. So I would prefer the 10*60=600 Amps of the Asus Board over your 12*40=480 Amps, but that's only my opinion. There are other facts too, seperate from vrm, why someone would prefer X570 over X470, but the vrm of the crosshair outperforms many cheap X570 Boards. They are doubled by 5 International Rectifier doublers and it's an Asus ASP 1405 5+2 PWM controller used. The same they use for some of their X570 STRIX Boards.

And by the way, your Board has also IR Stages, but smaller ones than the Asus Board, and the same doublers in use. Your PWM controller is also from IR, here is a diffrence to the Asus Board.

 

[johnny-r]

I'm very happy with my Msi B450 Gaming plus, almost 6 months now, had a couple of bios updates in the beginning and all working great now.

 

[Zach_01]

Sure they have a no meaning of their own. But the IR3555 are also used in many of the X570 Boards and they aren't crap. So I would prefer the 10*60=600 Amps of the Asus Board over your 12*40=480 Amps, but that's only my opinion. There are other facts too, seperate from vrm, why someone would prefer X570 over X470, but the vrm of the crosshair outperforms many cheap X570 Boards. They are doubled by 5 International Rectifier doublers and it's an Asus ASP 1405 5+2 PWM controller used. The same they use for some of their X570 STRIX Boards.

And by the way, your Board has also IR Stages, but smaller ones than the Asus Board, and the same doublers in use. Your PWM controller is also from IR, here is a diffrence to the Asus Board.

Cant argue that at all... nor I was saying that my board's power delivery system is superior to the Crosshair VII. Wasnt clear enough and I apologize.
I was just saying that phase count and amps dont mean anything by the numbers. thats it...
Crosshair Hero boards are among the greatest ones, no doubt!

And, as for the X570 vs X470/B450 debate I say if someone can afford it, go for X570. There are nice budget boards around 170$, but kinda stripped. From 200$ and up, one can find really nice and solid option for every taste and feature set. Not all of them make sense of course but some are. Just need to search... alot!
X570 is closer to 4000series support, beside that PCI-E 4.0 support (still not really usable for most users, but...)

 

[EarthDog]

I was just saying that phase count and amps dont mean anything by the numbers. thats it...

They do, but it isn't the WHOLE picture. And while it is better to have things running without doublers, the difference for ambient users isn't much at all really. Of the three (controller, phase count, and amps), I would place a lot more faith in the count/amps/specs of the MOSFETs than I would the controller and how it gets the power there.

Controller specs (how many channels it has) are good to know and completes the picture, but I'd rather have beefier MOSFETs and a controller that needs doublers to reach the phases, than to have less beefy MOSFETs and non doubled parts (again for ambient cooling). The reality is, few using ambient cooling will notice a difference either way. These chips, both Intel and AMD, are limited more so by the heat than motherboards (that is, when not using a 3950x on a potato B350, lol).

 

[Zach_01]

Crosshair VII has same power delivery with VIII? ...or just similar?

 

[JackCarver]

Crosshair VII has same power delivery with VIII? ...or just similar?

View attachment 142695

They use both the same PWM controller (ASP 1405I) but as the Crosshair 7 Hero uses 5+2 configuration the Crosshair 8 Hero uses 7+1 configuration. Both use the same power stages IR 3555 60 Amps, the VII 10 of these stages, the VIII 14 vcore phases. But they are doubled at the Crosshair Hero VII, the Crosshair Hero VIII uses Twin configuration. Asus don't use doublers any more at their X570 Boards as they are worse in transient response, as Asus says. They measured that voltage spikes when system changes load (idle->load->idle) are worse using doublers than without. The reason is, that doublers put some delay in the whole circuit as the PWM signal is halved by them and there is an additional circuit needed. But I think, that efficiency with doublers should be better, as with Twin configuration, there are always two stages in use, where with doublers only one is in use. So 14 doubled phases should stay cooler than 14 twin phases.

In my opinion, the new Gigabyte Aorus Master has one of the best vrm of all X570 Boards, 12 real phases for vcore, no doublers or twin in use, so all the benefits you can have!!! It uses 50 Amps Infineon stages. Would be my X570 Board ;-)

Edit:
Here is a list of the vrms used in many of the X570 Boards:

[Übersicht] - AMD 3rd Gen AM4 Mainboards & VRM Liste (X570, PRO565, B550, A520)

Inhaltsverzeichnis Vorwort | Die Plattform | Die Chipsätze | Die Mainboards (nach Hersteller sortiert) | Ergänzende Informationen hier im Forum | Anhang: Weiterführende Links & Hinweise Vorwort Hier dürfen News und Produkte diskutieret, Informationen erfragt und zusammengetragen, technische...

www.hardwareluxx.de

 

[WatEagle]

Guys and girls!

Im building new and want to upgrade only proccesor when it gets old

For now i have:
Ryzen 3600
2070S gigabyte gaming oc
Corsair 750W gold


Still missing motherboard and RAM.
For the RAM part i wanna pick 3200 CL 14 32 GB
Still cant decide on motherboard.
Was thinking alot about ASUS Crosshair 7. Is this MB worth buying? Will it support new ryzens when they come out?
Or maybe i should get some new x570 board with that crappy chipset fan ?

Appreciate for all answers!

For me all turns around your budget. If you have a tight one you can go with a B450, especially MSI or Asrock. But if you can afford a x570 go and get one decent, so in the future you will have yet PCIe 4 support and Ryzen 4000 support.
If you save up with mobo you can possibly get faster ram to get better performance.
Also if you plan to get a higher core count ruzen you surely will need better VRMs so if it so, go and buy a x570

 

[JackCarver]

Also if you plan to get a higher core count ruzen you surely will need better VRMs so if it so, go and buy a x570

That is no general rule, as there are X470 Boards with better vrm than X570 Boards, look at the Asus Crosshair VII Hero and compare it to nearly all Asrock X570 Boards, with the exception of Taichi, Creator or Aqua, I clearly would choose the Hero.

 

[Zach_01]

In my opinion, the new Gigabyte Aorus Master has one of the best vrm of all X570 Boards, 12 real phases for vcore, no doublers or twin in use, so all the benefits you can have!!! It uses 50 Amps Infineon stages. Would be my X570 Board ;-)

Yes I know this one... I wanted it too but it was too expensive for me and I'm not really into OC. As the video is showing the X570 Aorus Pro is doing fine (temp wise, transient response is another story) even up to 200+W draw with normal airflow around it of course, so...

I'm having this one... but surely, having it at my disposal, it does not mean that I can interpet all the info on it...

AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4 (2019-11-07) - Google Drive

docs.google.com

 

[WatEagle]

That is no general rule, as there are X470 Boards with better vrm than X570 Boards, look at the Asus Crosshair VII Hero and compare it to nearly all Asrock X570 Boards, with the exception of Taichi, Creator or Aqua, I clearly would choose the Hero.

I was assuming mataining pcie4 support, but you're right

 

[EarthDog]

Yes I know this one... I wanted it too but it was too expensive for me and I'm not really into OC. As the video is showing the X570 Aorus Pro is doing fine (temp wise, transient response is another story) even up to 200+W draw with normal airflow around it of course, so...

I'm having this one... but surely, having it at my disposal, it does not mean that I can interpet all the info on it...

AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4 (2019-11-07) - Google Drive

docs.google.com

I've posted that several times at this site for the past few months. It's a solid reference for the parts, no doubt!

That is no general rule, as there are X470 Boards with better vrm than X570 Boards, look at the Asus Crosshair VII Hero and compare it to nearly all Asrock X570 Boards, with the exception of Taichi, Creator or Aqua, I clearly would choose the Hero.

Correct... however the floor is raised compared to X470.

 

[JackCarver]

Yes I know this one... I wanted it too but it was too expensive for me and I'm not really into OC. As the video is showing the X570 Aorus Pro is doing fine (temp wise, transient response is another story) even up to 200+W draw with normal airflow around it of course, so...

I'm having this one... but surely, having it at my disposal, it does not mean that I can interpet all the info on it...

AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4 (2019-11-07) - Google Drive

docs.google.com

Yes unfortunately it's expensive, a german retailer requests 384,90€ for it . But if you compare it to for example the MSI MEG X570 ACE, this costs 373,70€, so not that much cheaper, and uses 12 doubled vcore phases. Or the MSI MEG X570 Godlike for 688,90€(!!!), it uses 14 doubled phases with 70 Amps infineon stages. So definitely worse in transient response than the Gigabyte Board. Sure the MSI Godlike has 980 Amps together (!!) but the 600 Amps of the Gigabyte Board should be sufficient also for really high OC.

After reading another article to the Asus VIII Hero, the Asus ASP 1405I PWM controller is a renamed IR 35201 PWM controller which can control 8 real phases. So not an Asus controller.

Edit:
The Aorus Pro is definitely a very good Board. The whole vrm (Controller, power stages and doublers) are infineon parts. Way better than my MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon with 8 twin phases and even this poor vrm can do 5 GHz with my i7 8700K.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Every $300+ X570 board is good it really just comes down to feature set and if you want your vrm to run slightly cooler.

I really like the Aorus Master but the Crosshair 8 is just as good and the Msi Unify is excellent as well. The Taichi is also great as well especially when it's on sale.

The chipset fan never comes on with the Master except during startup I doubt it will come on with a Crosshair 8 as well.

 

[JackCarver]

Yes the Taichi is also a nice board. I think the IR power stages that the Master uses are a little better than the SIC p-stages the Taichi uses. Interesting is, that the Asrock Aqua uses Infineon parts for the whole VRM, but that's way too expansive. At CaseKing 959,90€...

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Guys and girls!

Im building new and want to upgrade only proccesor when it gets old

For now i have:
Ryzen 3600
2070S gigabyte gaming oc
Corsair 750W gold


Still missing motherboard and RAM.
For the RAM part i wanna pick 3200 CL 14 32 GB
Still cant decide on motherboard.
Was thinking alot about ASUS Crosshair 7. Is this MB worth buying? Will it support new ryzens when they come out?
Or maybe i should get some new x570 board with that crappy chipset fan ?

Appreciate for all answers!

I have one, and I would not buy one now personally, too expensive for its age, the 570 boards will get better support for longer too and have better features.

One year on from purchase Bios updates have slowed to a crawl, it took ages for asus to bring 1.0.0.4 to the board and in general they tend to stop support after a year ie drivers etc.

Im waiting on 670 boards ,then ill swap perhaps, it's tricky for me since i have little to gain but im tempted.

plus ASUS are complete assholes when it came to pciex4 support, low end to mid got some degree of gpu or nvme support ie one or the other MIGHT work as it should, on my board they have it so pciex4 is out of the question for anything, hardly lines up well with buying a premium board when lower end ones get upgraded better via bios is it.

 

[Zach_01]

Every $300+ X570 board is good it really just comes down to feature set and if you want your vrm to run slightly cooler.

I really like the Aorus Master but the Crosshair 8 is just as good and the Msi Unify is excellent as well. The Taichi is also great as well especially when it's on sale.

The chipset fan never comes on with the Master except during startup I doubt it will come on with a Crosshair 8 as well.

MSI Unify is also a VRM "overkill" and above the Taichi. If those 2 are close at price the choise is Unify obviously, as not only has better power delivery but feature wise I think too. Taichi X570 once was the 300$ point king but now the Unify has this place. Taichi on sale day worth it.

Isnt the Aqua more of a bragging rights board?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

MSI Unify is also a VRM "overkill" and above the Taichi. If those 2 are close at price the choise is Unify obviously, as not only has better power delivery but feature wise I think too. Taichi X570 once was the 300$ point king but now the Unify has this place. Taichi on sale day worth it.

Isnt the Aqua more of a bragging rights board?

Sure the msi is better from a vrm perspective but if someone prefers the look or the feature set of the Taichi 8 vs 4 sata for example there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[JackCarver]

Unify and Aqua have both the same vrm, as far I can see. Aqua can watercool the vrm which is a nice feature if you get really high amps at the power stages. But you can also buy a waterblock for cpu and vrm, EK has several of them in their shop. But don‘t think it‘s necessary...

 

[eidairaman1]

Better vrms dont need cooling from buildzoids videos

 

[JackCarver]

Better vrms dont need cooling from buildzoids videos

If you do really high oc I think they will need some cooling