Hot take: B550 is DOA for enthusiasts. Your thoughts?

[GorbazTheDragon]

MPower was always part of the enthusiast chipset ftr. It was never low cost. IIRC, the MPower was either 2nd or 3rd in line behind the XPower for cost?

Mpower could not have been on anything other than intel's enthusiast chipsets because after P68 intel disabled all useful OCing on all but Z series chipsets... And at least here in the Europe the Z97 MPower retailed for around half the price of the XPower...

Just because you want to get every last bit of performance OCing on your board doesn't mean you want to be able to run 4 PCIe 4.0 m.2 drives, 8 SATA drives, have 2 GPUs and a PCIe 4.0 add-in card... OCing features, VRM current capability (beyond a certain point), and extensive I/O options are separate features and the exclusion of one doesn't necessitate the exclusion of the others.

 

[Assimilator]

The funny part is these boards are still expected to overclock the flagship enthusiast processor so they kind of have to be overbuilt.....or built properly. TPU only tested a 2700X on some boards, HWu (or someone) called them out on it and part of the reply was that nobody who's buying b450 is going to put a 3900x in it.... a poll was taken and an overwhelming majority expected that to happen and be OK for w/e board. So... in that light it makes sense.

The overwhelming majority of people on an enthusiast forum should not be trusted to set the policy for midrange boards.

My personal opinion is that any CPU should run at stock in any board. Any midrange board should be fine to overclock anything up to 8 cores, but only enthusiast boards should be able to handle overclocking the 12- and 16-core monsters.

Once again it comes back to market segmentation. Intel's midrange chipsets cannot overclock at all, which neatly prevents mobo designers from creating a mess like this B550 vs X570 situation.

 

[EarthDog]

Mpower could not have been on anything other than intel's enthusiast chipsets because after P68 intel disabled all useful OCing on all but Z series chipsets... And at least here in the Europe the Z97 MPower retailed for around half the price of the XPower...

Just because you want to get every last bit of performance OCing on your board doesn't mean you want to be able to run 4 PCIe 4.0 m.2 drives, 8 SATA drives, have 2 GPUs and a PCIe 4.0 add-in card... OCing features, VRM current capability (beyond a certain point), and extensive I/O options are separate features and the exclusion of one doesn't necessitate the exclusion of the others.

As I said, there was likely one board, maybe two between them... that's it. The MPower isn't a mainstream board, but an enthusiast class board. The XPower was a whooooooooole 'nother level above that and why it was so expensive.

I get your point. This is why boards like the Apex exist. 2 DRAM slots for example... But there is hardly a market for such overclocking focused motherboards like those we've seen in the past.

The overwhelming majority of people on an enthusiast forum should not be trusted to set the policy for midrange boards.

My personal opinion is that any CPU should run at stock in any board. Any midrange board should be fine to overclock anything up to 8 cores, but only enthusiast boards should be able to handle overclocking the 12- and 16-core monsters.

Once again it comes back to market segmentation. Intel's midrange chipsets cannot overclock at all, which neatly prevents mobo designers from creating a mess like this B550 vs X570 situation.

1. lol, right?!
2. That's a good opinion and, it works out in an overwhelming marority of cases. But the least expensive board needs to keep in mind things like a 3950X... that's going to raise the floor on cost too.

3. It is messy...the lines are blurred. AMD is good at doing that (mainstream and HEDT core count and their chipsets). Board vendors must love it, lol.

 

[R0H1T]

You also have to remember that the lowest quality/least pricey x570 boards are actually much worse than quality/top tier B550 boards. So if you don't want all the bells & whistles of x570, not to mention a separate fan as a point of potential failure, there's always B550 as a nice alternative!

 

[Shou Miko]

Ah, but wait for the next gen of cards, they'll all need PCIe 4.0 x16 or the system won't boot

They will properly be listed as such but not a requirement because like the RTX 2080 Ti as @EarthDog wants to correct me on is 2-3% but as I read is that maxing out on x8 not really.

If the GPU itself was only made for x8 the performance would be 99% identical running it in a x16 but the RTX 2080 Ti is really the only card that comes close to use up the whole x8 bandwidth that's why there is 2-3% as @W1zzard tested with his scaling review and I like the review it just shows how much the card really needs x16 and it's not really that much.

 

[EarthDog]

They will properly be listed as such but not a requirement because like the RTX 2080 Ti as @EarthDog wants to correct me on is 2-3% but as I read is that maxing out on x8 not really.

If the GPU itself was only made for x8 the performance would be 99% identical running it in a x16 but the RTX 2080 Ti is really the only card that comes close to use up the whole x8 bandwidth that's why there is 2-3% as @W1zzard tested with his scaling review and I like the review it just shows how much the card really needs x16 and it's not really that much.

Honestly... we don't know as as we haven't seen testing on RTX 2080 or 2080 Super. But the writing is on the wall, no doubt.

That said, a 5700XT loses ~1%. If it wasn't an average across so many tests, I'd call it nothing. A 5700 XT is slower than a 2080Ti by quite a bit so... seems like the threshold is there... upper mid-range.

PCI-Express 4.0 Performance Scaling with Radeon RX 5700 XT

PCI-Express 4.0 has been one of the main new features prominently brandished on the product boxes of both the 3rd generation Ryzen desktop processors and Radeon RX 5700 series graphics cards. We examine the performance impact of running these cards on older generations of PCIe.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

The MPower isn't a mainstream board, but an enthusiast class board.

It was an enthusiast board with the fluff cut away... It sold for around $150... The whole problem with boards like the current Apex and Crosshairs is they are priced beyond what a lot of people are willing to spend on a board... And especially in the case of the Apex, it loses out on everyday features relative to other boards in that price range.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

Ah, but wait for the next gen of cards, they'll all need PCIe 4.0 x16 or the system won't boot

When I had my Ryzen system the first half of this year, that's exactly what kept happening to me with that cursed 5700 XT. Went from my original Crosshair VI (which later died) to a Crosshair VIII Hero, then an AORUS X570 Master, and lastly, the Crosshair VIII Impact

Perhaps the weirdest thing about that whole experience was the fact that my RX 580 and a GTX 1660 Ti I had for a little while both worked without any of those issues. Kinda of ironic that the gen 4 card refused to work in a gen 4 mobo lol

Do you guys get the feeling there was something about my system the GPU/CPU didn't like and thus refused to boot?

 

[thevisi0nary]

Am I missing something? Isn't the only substantial difference the Pcie 4 restrictions? The vrm's look to be comparable on b550 depending on the board.

AMD B550 Motherboard First Look & VRM Temperature Test

At long last AMD more budget-oriented B550 motherboards will finally go on sale. There's been plenty of talk about the B550 chipset and all the supporting boards...

www.techspot.com

 

[xrror]

Am I missing something? Isn't the only substantial difference the Pcie 4 restrictions?

No I think you've got it. That and it's supposed to be a lower priced chipset than X570 for the mobo makers. Whether or not they use that lower BOM to hit a lower price point or instead add more options at the same price as X570 is up to the mobo maker.

 

[EarthDog]

It was an enthusiast board with the fluff cut away... It sold for around $150... The whole problem with boards like the current Apex and Crosshairs is they are priced beyond what a lot of people are willing to spend on a board... And especially in the case of the Apex, it loses out on everyday features relative to other boards in that price range.

It was/is still a enthusiast level board, lol. Which one sold for $150? Z77 was $210, Z87 was $229. I think there was a price drop on the Z97 that brought it down to sub-$200. $200+ motherboards in 2013, 2014, 2015 were pricey.

 

[Vayra86]

Yeah this chipset was dead at launch..It arrived way to late to the party, and was overpriced from the beginning.

Yet another example of AMD not managing its platform right. They have all the good cards in hand, and yet they play them in the worst possible order.

GPU is stuck in that as well. AMD Is very good at sprinting when its about to release something or go under... and then follows it up with a string of bad events. Strange.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Yet another example of AMD not managing its platform right. They have all the good cards in hand, and yet they play them in the worst possible order.

You're aware that the B550 is made by ASMedia right? They were reportedly very late getting it done, hence why it only launched now.

 

[Vayra86]

You're aware that the B550 is made by ASMedia right? They were reportedly very late getting it done, hence why it only launched now.

Do we need to care? There is an AMD sticker on it. Average Joe doesn't give a damn about all this right? They compare, and they find a well managed product stack versus a messy one.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Also the Pandemic is messing with supply chains.

 

[Shou Miko]

Yet another example of AMD not managing its platform right. They have all the good cards in hand, and yet they play them in the worst possible order.

GPU is stuck in that as well. AMD Is very good at sprinting when its about to release something or go under... and then follows it up with a string of bad events. Strange.

Problem with the GPU side is that you have a million different systems to put the cards into and not every system takes everything the same.

So you cannot blame it all on AMD because they do not make every motherboard them self's they make chips but it's also manufactures because AMD and Intel only make the chipsets not the boards if they did we properly won't have the weird issues some people are seeing.

You're aware that the B550 is made by ASMedia right? They were reportedly very late getting it done, hence why it only launched now.

Correct @TheLostSwede and to @Vayra86 it's the same with Intel and Nvidia.

Blame Intel they also release their Z chipsets first and Nvidia their top tier Ti and Titan cards first when the depending for better performance ain't $1000.

 

[Vayra86]

Problem with the GPU side is that you have a million different systems to put the cards into and not every system takes everything the same.

So you cannot blame it all on AMD because they do not make every motherboard them self's they make chips but it's also manufactures because AMD and Intel only make the chipsets not the boards if they did we properly won't have the weird issues some people are seeing.



Correct @TheLostSwede and to @Vayra86 it's the same with Intel and Nvidia.

Blame Intel they also release their Z chipsets first and Nvidia their top tier Ti and Titan cards first when the depending for better performance ain't $1000.

No its not the same. Intel and Nvidia release in tightly organized cadence for the whole stack. With AMD, everything is always subject to change.

We can predict what an Intel gen release looks like and how the stack is organized, but we can't do that for an AMD release. Last minute changes, late communication (also to suppliers/OEM), changing requirements... Its a big box of problems.

There have been numerous events in the past few years that underline all of that;
- No AIB boards available for GPUs, so you're stuck with reference blowers that are known to be shit. AMD happily releases them months prior to the AIBs. Result: bad press, and sales immediately lead to customer dissatisfaction. And even WHEN AIB's release... its a god damn minefield of good and not-so-good products. It usually comes down to one or two 'good' choices among all of those boards for a specific card. Its ridiculous.
- Last minute driver changes, even up to and including 'optional 14Gbps BIOS'. You couldn't even make it up!
- Launch state of new product is rather weak and prone to early adopter woes, and it can easily take weeks/months for a fix. In this, AMD is not unique... except for the time fixes generally take.

- Order of releases is one thing, but product segmentation is another. We have a topic full of comments here saying B550 is dead in the water because it has no real place in the market. Its a bit of everything. With Intel, you know you want a Z-board and you know why. Or an H/B board for other reasons. With AMD... it could become whatever. This B450/550 is a repeat of what happened with FX procs overloading the VRM. Customers didn't know because there was no clear segmentation.

- A big part of all this seems entirely customer driven, and this is worrying. AMD wants its testing done cheap, the result is you're always trailing press. They can never keep their problems in-house, fix them and then release. This also hurts the brand, I doubt its 'cheaper' than just testing inhouse.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Yes because that is what defines the two classes. MPower was always part of the enthusiast chipset ftr. It was never low cost. IIRC, the MPower was either 2nd or 3rd in line behind the XPower for cost? It was not a mainstream board by price or chipset bud. Sorry.

MPower is more like a track car (stripped some features for OC ability)... XPower was a fast luxury vehicle. MPower is, by all accounts, an enthusiast level board.

It doesn't? Then why does it lose a couple % when dropping down to 3.0 x8?

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www.techpowerup.com

2-3%... while not significant, it certainly seems to take a hit, no?

read the individual results not just the avg.

 

[Shou Miko]

No its not the same. Intel and Nvidia release in tightly organized cadence for the whole stack. With AMD, everything is always subject to change.

We can predict what an Intel gen release looks like and how the stack is organized, but we can't do that for an AMD release. Last minute changes, late communication (also to suppliers/OEM), changing requirements... Its a big box of problems.

There have been numerous events in the past few years that underline all of that;
- No AIB boards available for GPUs, so you're stuck with reference blowers that are known to be shit. AMD happily releases them months prior to the AIBs. Result: bad press, and sales immediately lead to customer dissatisfaction. And even WHEN AIB's release... its a god damn minefield of good and not-so-good products. It usually comes down to one or two 'good' choices among all of those boards for a specific card. Its ridiculous.
- Last minute driver changes, even up to and including 'optional 14Gbps BIOS'. You couldn't even make it up!
- Launch state of new product is rather weak and prone to early adopter woes, and it can easily take weeks/months for a fix. In this, AMD is not unique... except for the time fixes generally take.

- Order of releases is one thing, but product segmentation is another. We have a topic full of comments here saying B550 is dead in the water because it has no real place in the market. Its a bit of everything. With Intel, you know you want a Z-board and you know why. Or an H/B board for other reasons. With AMD... it could become whatever. This B450/550 is a repeat of what happened with FX procs overloading the VRM. Customers didn't know because there was no clear segmentation.

- A big part of all this seems entirely customer driven, and this is worrying. AMD wants its testing done cheap, the result is you're always trailing press. They can never keep their problems in-house, fix them and then release. This also hurts the brand, I doubt its 'cheaper' than just testing inhouse.

You cannot do the VRM because really there are some shitty entry and middle range X570 and Z490 board where the VRM are jokes for this time of chipset and same goes for the B chipsets.

 

[EarthDog]

read the individual results not just the avg.

I felt spelling out that each title would be different wasn't necessary... but yes, look at the details as some titles may be effected more/less than others.

 

[Assimilator]

No its not the same. Intel and Nvidia release in tightly organized cadence for the whole stack. With AMD, everything is always subject to change.

We can predict what an Intel gen release looks like and how the stack is organized, but we can't do that for an AMD release. Last minute changes, late communication (also to suppliers/OEM), changing requirements... Its a big box of problems.

There have been numerous events in the past few years that underline all of that;
- No AIB boards available for GPUs, so you're stuck with reference blowers that are known to be shit. AMD happily releases them months prior to the AIBs. Result: bad press, and sales immediately lead to customer dissatisfaction. And even WHEN AIB's release... its a god damn minefield of good and not-so-good products. It usually comes down to one or two 'good' choices among all of those boards for a specific card. Its ridiculous.
- Last minute driver changes, even up to and including 'optional 14Gbps BIOS'. You couldn't even make it up!
- Launch state of new product is rather weak and prone to early adopter woes, and it can easily take weeks/months for a fix. In this, AMD is not unique... except for the time fixes generally take.

- Order of releases is one thing, but product segmentation is another. We have a topic full of comments here saying B550 is dead in the water because it has no real place in the market. Its a bit of everything. With Intel, you know you want a Z-board and you know why. Or an H/B board for other reasons. With AMD... it could become whatever. This B450/550 is a repeat of what happened with FX procs overloading the VRM. Customers didn't know because there was no clear segmentation.

- A big part of all this seems entirely customer driven, and this is worrying. AMD wants its testing done cheap, the result is you're always trailing press. They can never keep their problems in-house, fix them and then release. This also hurts the brand, I doubt its 'cheaper' than just testing inhouse.

It also seems like AMD's own AIB partners don't test their products either. An example is how many of the AMD GPUs that were released that had VRM overheating problems, or the BIOSes that broke fan speeds. That, coupled with the driver issues, gives the perception of a brand that (rightly or wrongly) is overall lower quality than competitors. This perception is something AMD still needs to address, particularly if they want to break into the corporate market, and I don't feel like they're putting enough effort there.

 

[bonehead123]

Antything with "B" in the series is/was a snoozefest/DOA to me even before it launched, back when they were 50, 150, 250 or whatever

"Z" for me, otherwise y/A/w/N..........

 

[cucker tarlson]

z490,x570,b550 - they're all so god damn pricey.I'm building a new system and frankly I'm very satisfied with the price of cpu and ram but the board - the cost went up by a 100% compared to my z97.I got 16 gigs of 3733 c17 bdie ram for about the same as I got a 2400 c11 kit for my 4790k which is better than last time actually.I got an i5 that matches prev gen 9700K/8700K for about 60% of what they cost and isn't starved on threads like 4690k was - super sweet deal,last two cpus had to be i7s and both cost me 1400pln.Now I got one for 970pln thanks to amd brining back that bang for the buck sweet spot back in the game.
The board is the only thing that stands out,and it's bad.For a similar class board I'm paying a 1000 while z97 gaming 5 cost me 500.

is b550 doa for enthusiasts -nope.
it'll come to an individual choice of boards imo.some b550s will be more suitable for some people than other x570s.
6-layer pcb is now required for pci-e 4.0 and cheapest z490 to cheapest z390 are over 700pln to what used to be under 500pln.same thing happened to b450->b550.

 

[AusWolf]

What disappointed me, is the lack of a solid mATX board based on the B550 chipset, as there are none based on X570.
Edit: Turns out MSI actually has an ok mATX board, but I really loathe their current UEFI design... It's even priced pretty fairly at $170.

MSI MAG B550M MORTAR WIFI AMD AM4 DDR4 CF Lightning Gen 4 M.2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 HDMI WiFi6 mATX Gaming Motherboard

Powered by AMD Ryzen AM4 processors, the MSI MAG B550M MORTAR WiFi inspired by the military armor design, tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, WiFi 6, Lightning Gen 4 M.2 with M.2 Shied, 2oz copper PCB

www.msi.com

I find it on the contrary. The only mATX X570 motherboard available in my regular store is the ASRock X570M Pro4, whereas there's an abundance of decent B550 ones. All the X570 features the OP ( @Assimilator ) discussed don't interest me*, so I might very well build my next system around the MAG B550M that you linked.

*: I consider overclocking for a 5-10% extra performance pretty much useless, and I don't need more than one x16 PCI-e slot for my graphics card, and maybe one m.2 for an SSD. Extra USB ports can be sorted out with a hub or an add-in card, and... what else is there?

 

[milewski1015]

I've no interest in the B550 boards really. My 2600 and B450 Gaming Pro Carbon and doing just fine. Was toying with the idea of jumping up to an X570 Tomahawk and maybe 3700X, but no rush for any of that as I'm happy with current performance. Probably best to hold off until AM5 or DDR5 comes around unless there's a really great deal somewhere. I enjoyed OC'ing my 2600, but given how little headroom there is for the Zen 2 chips, it almost doesn't feel worth it buying a high-end board that'll just auto since static OCs on Ryzen (at least for the time being) are basically dead.

Is the X570 chipset fan really that big of an issue? I haven't heard anybody complaining about noise. Some have said that it's more of an endurance issue and that it'll get louder years down the road as it wears out.