120mm liquid cooling system upgrade for the 9600KF @ 5Ghz

[storm-chaser]

This build started life with a 120mm air cooler made by MSI, the Core Frozr XL, which has two 120mm fans in push/pull configuration. I was able to get 5.0Ghz out of the chip, but it was noisy under sustained heavy load so I wanted to switch gears here and move to a custom loop, partly for aesthetics but also for performance as well. Also out of curiosity. I want to explore the possibility of using just one 120mm radiator to make this upgrade slightly more challenging. So that is the only self imposed restriction, if you will. Everything else is on the table. In point of fact, I could actually fit a 360 mm radiator in this case, but that would be boring and easy. Set it and forget it, which gives me no satisfaction whatsoever.

I am essentially trying to build a high performance liquid cooling system with a 120mm radiator at the core. Target is 5.0GHz with a six core Intel 9600KF CPU. My goal is a 1 hour torture test with the case buttoned up completely. The Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 120 Radiator is around 80 mm in thickness, so it will make fitment within the case challenging, especially with two fans in a push/pull configuration on either side of it. Matter of fact, I may eventually put the "pulling" fan on the outside of the case if I need more interior room in the case for other components.

*I originally used the MSI Core Frozr XL air cooler with this build. This particular cooler has eight heat pipes and two 120 mm fans in push/pull. I was able to hold 5.0GHz no problem, however, the fan profile had to be set rather aggressively and under heavy load the rig would get pretty loud. However, I was not able to shut the case up tight due to thermal spikes in heavy gaming - but it's GPU related not CPU... To help correct that problem, I've upgraded the video card from an RX 580 to an MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT. The MSI Gaming X 5700 XT GPU has a great cooling system from the factory, and the GPU stays very cool under nearly all conditions including heavy gaming, giving the rest of my system a little more thermal headroom to work with when its needed most. The RX 580 offered excellent performance, but it was a very hot running card (it turns your PC into a sauna) and would simply overwhelm the airflow limits of my case. Consequently, I have also cut a 120 x 120 mm square in the side panel directly above the memory and waterblock. I will be using a 120mm high performance industrial Noctua fan for active cooling to that area including the water block, VRMs and memory. Last step is adding a magnetic mesh filter on cover, so the case will have a nice fit and finish once completed. The fan is PWM and can go up to 3000 rpm. I will also have another Noctua 120mm at the front of the case, in the lower front, to draw in fresh air for the GPU. So in total, that's two four 120 mm fans. Two on the rad, on in the lower right front of the case and one on the side cover, above where the waterblock, VRMs and memory sit.

MSI Cooling Core Frozr XL (old, original cooler)



*The case is nearly silent, with sound deadening material on nearly every surface inside... which means I am at a disadvantage right out of the gate, as all that sound deadening material keeps the heat in. That's okay, I think I can still make this work and I'm looking forward to the challenge. I've calculated the TDP of the 9600KF to be around 175 watts at 5.0GHz. The chip is definitely capable of this speed.

Case in question is the Coolermaster Sileo 500. I'm well aware that it's generally a love / hate relationship. Some people like the minimalist, brushed aluminum look while others hate it.



Side with internal view, note 120mm fan at the back. That's where the radiator's gonna go.



Radiator Selection
Alphacool 14180 NexXxoS Monsta 120mm Radiator Water Cooling Radiator


WaterBlock:
Watercool HEATKILLER IV PRO CPU Water Block, Intel CPU, Pure Copper


Pump:
800L/H 8W 7V Water Cooling Pump Tank with 4 Meters Pump Head & LED Power Indicator G1/4 Thread Fast Heat Dissipation CPU

Temp Sensor:Bitspower G1/4" Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting, Matte Black


Soft Tubing: PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 3/8in. ID x 1/2in. OD Tubing Bundle (10ft Pack) - Crystal Clear

G1/4" fttings: XSPC G1/4" 5mm Male to Male Fitting, Chrome, 4-Pack


Single front 120mm case fan: Noctua NF-F12 PWM chromax.Black.swap, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (120mm, Black)

Dual 120mm radiator fans: Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (120mm, Brown)


EKWB EK-Quantum Torque STC-10/13 Compression Fitting for Soft Tubing, 10/13mm (3/8" ID, 1/2" OD), Nickel, 4-Pack

Water Cooling Copper Filter 2 G1/4" Ports for Liquid Cooling System Loop (Silver)


SDTC Tech 6 Pack G1/4" Plug Fitting with O-Ring for PC Water Cooling Systems, Silver


EK-AF Classic Angled 90° - Black Nickel 2 Pack


EKWB EK-Quantum Torque STC-10/13 Compression Fitting for Soft Tubing, 10/13mm (3/8" ID, 1/2" OD), Nickel
EKWB EK-CryoFuel Concentrate Coolant, 100mL, Navy Blue
2nd Reservoir: (Yes, I will have two reservoirs in the same loop) This is actually much more than a reservoir to monitor levels. You can attach up to two D5 pumps down the road that mount to the back. Essentially, I am building redundancy into the system. If the first pump fails or is flat out just a bad performer, or I just don't like it, I can always shift a few lines and convert to a pump/res combo.





Any recommendations on other parts or ideas are welcome. This is basically my first custom loop, I've worked with plenty of AIOs in the past but never tackled a custom loop... until now. Only restriction, which is self imposed, is the 120 mm radiator.

 

[biffzinker]

Are you going to try pushing farther past a 5GHz overclock or did you hit the limit it would go with air cooling? I remember you went over 5GHz but backed it down.

 

[nguyen]

Is this what people refer to as "sleeper PC"
Still there is no way your 9600KF can output 175W under realistic load at 5Ghz though, maybe Prime95 small FFT load. Even my 8700K at 5.1ghz and 1.41V hardly use over 160W under non-AVX load.

 

[storm-chaser]

Are you going to try pushing farther past a 5GHz overclock or did you hit the limit it would go with air cooling? I remember you went over 5GHz but backed it down.

Good question. Yes, the chip has plenty of OC headroom past what my old air-cooler could deliver. While I did get a CPUz validation at 5.3 ghz on the old air cooler it was not stable due to thermals. so there is definitely more on the table with this water cooled setup, or at least that's the hope. Truth is, due to manufacturing problems, Intel has had a lot of time to fine tune and mature this family of CPUs and with that they've been able to steadily increase the clocks with each new release. The 9600K is a great overclocking chip and most of them should do at least 5.0Ghz right out of the box. So to answer your question directly: No I have not found the upper limit of the CPU yet.

Is this what people refer to as "sleeper PC"
Still there is no way your 9600KF can output 175W under realistic load at 5Ghz though, maybe Prime95 small FFT load. Even my 8700K at 5.1ghz and 1.41V hardly use over 160W under non-AVX load.

First sleeper build for me! Can you guess what kind of cars I like? I figured I would apply the same theory here with this computer build

So this is good news regarding TDP as the 8700k is more or less the same processor.

So I am still missing the pump, filter and one temp sensor but I decided to mock everything up just to see how it all fits together. For all intensive purposes the rad must be mounted upside down due to interference with the PSU directly above it.

I also noticed the push fan at the front doesn't clear the water block (see pics) so I have to figure out what we will do next. I can move the pulling fan, to the outside of the case. This may work as it will give me enough room to run both lines to the water block, but I would have to drill new mounting holes in this case.

Another, more "ghetto hacked" option would be to use a large drill bit to clearance the fan so I can get do the port on the waterblock. I want to avoid doing this if at all possible. Any suggestions?

 

[nguyen]

You can usse 2 Noctua NF-A12x15 fans, they are still doing fine for being 15mm thick fans regarding static pressure
NF-A12x15 review

 

[Waldorf]

One reason i went with a resorator on my custom loop so i didnt have to deal with rads (space/location/blocking case flow),
nice side effect filling it to the top (with coolant): took 20-30 min just to saturate the loop before cpu temp would even rise..

why not put it outside the case? got enough tubing to do so, just needs a frame to hold rad/fan.

 

[basco]

hmm interesting i would have thought that a 5700xt is putting much more heat into the case then a rx580.
and this ac-monsta radiator needs high rpm fans to work good ?
what power supply is that plz? without modular cable managment?

and plz dont be mad at me but is this dual pump redundancy a little bit overkill ?

 

[dgianstefani]

hmm interesting i would have thought that a 5700xt is putting much more heat into the case then a rx580.
and this ac-monsta radiator needs high rpm fans to work good ?
what power supply is that plz? without modular cable managment?

and plz dont be mad at me but is this dual pump redundancy a little bit overkill ?

The build doesn't make sense and hasn't since it was first put together, don't try to question the logic, I'm speaking from experience.

 

[storm-chaser]

hmm interesting i would have thought that a 5700xt is putting much more heat into the case then a rx580.
and this ac-monsta radiator needs high rpm fans to work good ?
what power supply is that plz? without modular cable managment?

and plz dont be mad at me but is this dual pump redundancy a little bit overkill ?

No problem.

The Nexxos Monsta's use a low FPI density (10FPI), which means the fans are optimal in the low rpm ranges (800rpm and below). Higher FPI means you need higher RPM, static pressure fans to push adequate air through the radiators. Running a high RPM fan through a Low FPI radiator brings no noticeable increase in performance, as you should expect.

Just because it is a thick radiator doesn't mean you need a fast fan. Anyone who says thin rads need low RPM fans and thick rads need high rpm (or push/pull) is completely missing the point of FPI, and its hard to blame them because manufacturers rarely advertise the FPI, it is usually something you have to research from benchmark sites yourself.

Generally speaking, 8-10FPI is considered for low RPM fans, 15 is mid range, 18-22+ is high RPM fans (all static pressure optimized).

In regards to the GPU. You must be thinking of the original cooling system that AMD was using on the very first 5700 XT GPUs, the blower style, which was horrible, yes. The MSI gaming x 8GB 5700 XT card in particular has one of the best redesigned (non blower style) cooling systems out of any 5700 XT currently on the market. Consequently the card runs stone cold, which should help the nuclear reactor meltdown problem with the old 580 RX under heavy gaming. The RX 580 is a VERY hot running chip. If I remember correctly, the fans don't even start kicking in until the GPU reaches a staggering 70*C.

As for the dual pump redundancy, yeah it's overkill. Keep in mind I am only running it as a reservoir for now. Eventually I will get a single D5 pump and compare the two pumps in terms of performance and NVH of the operation. But no need for anything more than one pump at a time. I just wanted to keep the idea open of changing pumps in the future without having to reset and rebuild my entire loop.

The build doesn't make sense and hasn't since it was first put together, don't try to question the logic, I'm speaking from experience.

Yes, that's right. It's for entertainment only and serves no real purpose, other than overclocking and gaming. I will listen to recommendations, etc but ultimately it's my project, and it's my choice what I want to do with the hardware. My hardware

It's something fun to do in my spare time. I could build a giant gaming rig with some overgrown alien looking case and two towering 360mm radiators and then set it and forget it, but where is the fun in that? I want something that offers a challenge. In this case I am curious to see if I can get to 5GHz with just a single 120 mm radiator. Also, I've been wanting to build a sleeper rig for a number of years now.

How does the volume of coolant relate to temp dissipation? Some people are saying it will just take longer to heat up and wont offer any performance and/or cooling advantages and that it will just take longer to heat soak. My bay reservoir has a capacity of just about 1 quart, plus the second reservior holds about half that, so I will have substantially more volume in the loop than most.

One reason i went with a resorator on my custom loop so i didnt have to deal with rads (space/location/blocking case flow),
nice side effect filling it completely: took 20-30 min just to saturate the loop before cpu temp would even rise..

why not put it outside the case? got enough tubing to do so, just needs a frame to hold rad/fan.

That's good thinking and I will keep it in the back of my mind as a viable option. I assume you are talking about this external water cooling solution:

Zalman Reserator 1 V2 Fanless Water Cooling System

<p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> Zalman's external watercooling sensation, the Reserator, is back with an all new revision to meet today's higher powered system's astronomical cooling demands!<br> The Reserator 1 V2 incorporates...

www.xoxide.com

 

[basco]

thanks for taking the time to explain Mr.storm!

 

[storm-chaser]

what power supply is that plz? without modular cable managment?

Its from the 900W Antec High Current Gamer Series. I picked it up for next to nothing, so yeah, in a perfect world I would have a modular power supply in there, but for the price I couldn't pass it up. Cable management is a must with this one, so rest assured, once I have the fitment of all the other water cooling parts in place and set up properly, I will be sure to address the extra PSU cabling to maximize airflow through the case.

Other than being non modular, it puts out 900W continuous DC output (35°), very quiet; below 450W DC output, 80 Plus Bronze efficiency across a broad range of loads, Low AC ripple and noise on the DC outputs. Four +12V output can deliver up to 71A combined load, four PCI-E connectors support high-end graphic adapters, active PFC with universal AC input and 5 year warranty.

 

[basco]

Nice,that sounded like ya described a V8 to me!

 

[Waldorf]

@storm-chaser
yeah. i just bought the res (used), removed the pump, replaced existing connectors with 1/2 ID,
and added tubing to the outlet inside the res (bottom), so that the water gets all the way to the top of the resorator
and i dont have to worry about the hot water coming in getting sucked right back, as zalman placed in/outlet right next to each other on the bottom

but since you already got the stuff, i would just feed the hoses outside the case (pci slot or firewall) resting the rad on top of the case (with couple in standoff ?!)


pci pass thru

port

 

[John Naylor]

1. The Monsta rad has a fairly low FPI so, as you later pointed out, no real need for the 300 rpm fanss that were popular when fans were 30 fpi.

2. Having the fans blow out will significantly reduce cooling capacity as the air thru the rad is preheated by case interior temps. Howver, while at any other location, I'd have no problem with any and all fans being intakes, the rear of case is the one location where out is a must ... can't be sucking air in that your GFX card and PSU just echausted all there hot air to.

3. Not liking the limited air space at the PSU fan.

4. I always use a dual pump unit Swiftech 35X2 w/ headsink, mounting stand and fan

5. My next project is to make a new foot rest, built into the wooden desk , for my wife ,,, with a remote 420 rad built in....

6, Unless your sleeving cables ( I do) , I just don't get modular ... in semi-modular the cables you must use are hard wired and only optional cable are modular. That means less reisistance and less failure points.

 

[Waldorf]

@John Naylor
2. lol
still trying to convince ppl to heat up the whole case/chipset/vrms not even talking about the gpu as well, just to gain sub 5*C on the cpu temp.
fps gains will be insignificant, compared to setup as exhaust and having about 20-30*C less on the air the gpu breathes.
Nv reduces boost once you hit 40*C, and then lowers it step by step for each added 5/10C by 15 MHz, so you save a couple of *C on the cpu
to pi#@ away up to 100 MHz on the gpu, lol again.

unless someone doesnt game/is looking for max cpu oc only, your advice is wrong for +99% of users.

6. once you start working on more than a gray atx office pc, you will see it helps with routing and/or hiding the cords,
and on some smaller cases might be the only way to install the psu without messing up cables.
so far, non of my FM psu's i put in ANY pc i build for me/friends etc (about 50 in the past 15) has had any defect
when it comes to cables/connectors until psu died.
check your outlet with a oscilloscope. you have more "dirt" on the power signal from your outlet impacting the psu,
than the added resistance of a plug (on a proper designed psu) will ever have.

 

[storm-chaser]

1. The Monsta rad has a fairly low FPI so, as you later pointed out, no real need for the 300 rpm fanss that were popular when fans were 30 fpi.

2. Having the fans blow out will significantly reduce cooling capacity as the air thru the rad is preheated by case interior temps. Howver, while at any other location, I'd have no problem with any and all fans being intakes, the rear of case is the one location where out is a must ... can't be sucking air in that your GFX card and PSU just echausted all there hot air to.

3. Not liking the limited air space at the PSU fan.

4. I always use a dual pump unit Swiftech 35X2 w/ headsink, mounting stand and fan

5. My next project is to make a new foot rest, built into the wooden desk , for my wife ,,, with a remote 420 rad built in....

6, Unless your sleeving cables ( I do) , I just don't get modular ... in semi-modular the cables you must use are hard wired and only optional cable are modular. That means less reisistance and less failure points.

Cooling fans will be noctua and will run up to 2000 rpm PWM and in addition, the side cover now has a 120 x 120 mm square cut out -- and its centered directly over top and in front of the main air intake for the rad fan. From this position, I can also hit the waterblock and VRMs with a stream of fresh air. I will be using an industrial grade a 3000 rpm PWM Noctua to get the job done. which is why I am not concerned with pulling air from inside the case .

Regarding the power supply, yes it does appear restricted by the water cooler directly below it in some of the pictures. when properly fitted, there will be roughly a one half inch gap between the PSU and cooler and while at first that appears to be a problem (and Im with you, I'd prefer a little more spacing as well) the PSU internal fan is massive and takes big bites at the air, so basically, it's a high-volume low speed fan, the air is being pulled in at a very low velocity to the point where the 1/2" gap between the cooler and the PSU *should* not be a problem. In other words, the velocity of the air at the mouth of the PSU is so slow the cooler should not pose much of a threat.

 

[storm-chaser]

Not to leave you without content --- I've been busy. Still waiting on my pump. For some reason it's been stuck in CA for customs for nearly a week now. Starting to get annoyed.

In any event, it's probably a good thing. Because I can now methodically go about doing this with a much better frame of mind. I'm really glad I stood on it for a few days there. It draws the priorities to the fore, you know?


Now running two Noctua 120mm inside the front side cover. These should clear the top of GPU as well. One is PWM 2000 rpm case fan other will be my "gaming" fan. This is something outrageous like a 3.6w motor and over 3000 rpm top end noctua power. Yes, I butchered the side case l. No, it's not going to be finished like that. This build has no free passes. And I will not stand for inadequate work, has to be done right every time. The industrial fans have been mounted on the case and appear to work perfectly as designed. I should be able to get to 5.1 on water, at least, with this setup.

Yes, the front side panel has been butchered. But fear not, it will look excellent before it goes back in. The entire case is getting powerdercoated once I've built the thing, so paint finish is not so important right now since I know it's going to be repainted. I might also get the entire side cover plated with solid zink and leave some cool air intakes at top or bottom. All my options are on the table at this point!























"Modulated" power supply LOL


Surgery is done and the new rats nest is about 15' shorter and can easily be routed out of the way of incoming air.






And I still cannot get over the GPU performance potential of a GPU such as the 5700 XT.

Granted I do have four 300 watt Tesla K80s sitting in a Dell PowerEdge c4130 with lots of cores, high turbos + excellent single thread and SSD storage capability so than again, I cant be too far off desired performance base

But newer cards are truly amazing...
14,000 MHz effective memory speed!

The RX 5700 blows the doors off it's competition once everyone started moving away from AMD's original reference design with horrific blower style cooler. So MSI went back to the drawling board and literally came out with a masterpiece in the Gaming X.

It's almost like I just got it for the numbers after all, lol maybe I did! No, I knew it was my next card from the day I heard about it when it was released. Especially after 3rd party manufacturers saying they where going to do away with the sac religious blower cooling design, which should be a crime!

the RX 5700 XT, is a beast - in it's most pure and essential usage --- especially the MSI gaming X edition. It continues to flex in various games, etc all while running very very cool. I've had one of these 5700 XTs in my very well ventilated z820 HP workstation. which has two fans aft of the GPU which pull air front to back through the case. So for circumstantial purposes I most admit the case has pretty good airflow. However, I can be gaming for an hour and pull the case apart and the backplate is perhaps luke warm to the touch. Keep in mind this is on Battleflied on max settings. Totally maxxed out cross the board.

Very excited to try my other 5700 XT with this new liquid cooling build. Then we can really see what my cooling system is made from.

More parts going in and coming out. Fine tuning, then testing fitment, again and again. It can get tedious, especially with a build like this.

 

[storm-chaser]

So I've decided to go big on loop volume. I will be utilizing all five drive bays to create a massive, nearly one gallon, reservoir + the reservior on the pump, which will add another pint to loop volume as well. This will include two Alphacool reservoirs, each possessing two drive bays. That leaves me with one 5.25 inch drive bay which will be filled with this single 5.25" reservoir, already have it ordered and on the way. Three alphacool reservoirs, one alphacool 120mm rad + another 80mm alphacool rad (after my testing is complete with just the single 120 rad first) located near the right, bottom, front of the case. The rig is going to be pretty sick when completed, I am really getting into the thick with this one!

























Old cooler vs new 120mm rad





































Implements of destruction!






I will be using the jet drive from one of my 96 XPs as a pump for the loop. I think that should provide enough flow to keep a 9600KF cool. I have about 1000lb of thrust at that point, but I dont know if that will be enough -- heat soak is such a problem in this case. Also the computer frame will have to be bolted to the workbench so it doesn't take off like a rocket when full thrust is applied via the 110HP two stroke Bombardier 800cc twin engine. Just kidding!

 

[Caring1]

The rig is going to be pretty sick when completed.....

I will be using the jet drive from one of my 96 XPs as a pump for the loop. I think that should provide enough flow to keep a 9600KF cool. I have about 1000lb of thrust at that point, but I dont know if that will be enough -- heat soak is such a problem in this case. Also the computer frame will have to be bolted to the workbench so it doesn't take off like a rocket when full thrust is applied via the 110HP two stroke Bombardier 800cc twin engine.

Not a good idea, but feel free to share pictures of the exploded cooling system after.

 

[storm-chaser]

Not a good idea, but feel free to share pictures of the exploded cooling system after.

LOL just joking about the seadoo jet drive thing, I wont be doing that in actuality.. I will fix it

 

[FreedomEclipse]

thats quite a thicc rad. would definitely benefit from a push/pull config

 

[storm-chaser]

thats quite a thicc rad. would definitely benefit from a push/pull config

Im contemplating putting a pull fan on the outside of the case. I will do that if thermals aren't low enough using just one noctua fan.

My only problem with that is it's kinda like wearing a colostomy bag. Id prefer to have everything nice and tidy on the inside, but if thermals are a problem, I will do it.

Putting the HEATKILLER water block on right now.

 

[moproblems99]

To help correct that problem, I've upgraded the video card from an RX 580 to an MSI Radeon RX 5700 XT. The MSI Gaming X 5700 XT GPU has a great cooling system from the factory, and the GPU stays very cool under nearly all conditions including heavy gaming, giving the rest of my system a little more thermal headroom to work with when its needed most.

Interesting to see if this makes any difference. The wattage isn't that much different and because it has a better cooler more of that wattage is getting dumped back into the case. I am thinking you have pretty close to a net zero change there.

Also, did I miss something, why two res?

 

[storm-chaser]

Interesting to see if this makes any difference. The wattage isn't that much different and because it has a better cooler more of that wattage is getting dumped back into the case. I am thinking you have pretty close to a net zero change there.

Actually, it was an amazing transformation and was a huge contribution to LESS overall case temps. Before I dismantled the rig my RX 5700 XT arrived, and I just had to try it before shutting it down. So I swapped in the new GPU and what do you know? I can actually game with the side cover closed. I can run torture tests with the side closed. No more micro sized Chernobyl accidents yet! Like what would happen with the old GPU! Nothing, it runs completely normally now! Case temps dropped by about 10* and CPU temps came down another 5-6* and stay much lower than they did for much longer. Very real benefits we are talking about here.

One contribution I noticed right of the bat was the backplate heat difference. On the RX 580, the backplate can and does run well above 150-170*F.... My new RX 5700 XT runs about ambient, or lukewarm. Perhaps 90*F, nothing more than that even after heavy gaming. Huge difference because the backplate on the old RX 580 was only 1.4 inches away from the CPU cooler. It was really bad. You dont want something that hot literally right below the CPU cooler!!!

So to answer your question: Pretty close to a total transformation and one sick video card to be rocking!

Also, did I miss something, why two res?

Yes I decided to go big. That means every single 5.25 inch bay will be filled with reservoirs. Maximum radiator size for maximum volume of coolant.

ps it's good to see you back in the loop!

 

[moproblems99]

Case temps dropped by about 10* and CPU temps came down another 5-6* and stay much lower than they did for much longer. Very real benefits we are talking about here.

Assuming these are also in F, more than I was expecting but what do I know?

Yes I decided to go big. That means every single 5.25 inch bay will be filled with reservoirs. Maximum radiator size for maximum volume of coolant.

Why? If my memory serves me, and it usually doesn't, the water is going to heat up to the same temperature if you just had one. It just takes longer to get saturated. No different than Air cooling in which a bigger hsf will take longer to saturate but then is dependent on the area of the fins to cool while the mass of the hsf becomes useless once saturated. The reservoir is the same way in this regard and won't yield you any additional performance and will just be more fittings with crazy bends.

ps it's good to see you back in the loop!