Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

[Caring1]

I think @Caring1 saw that the core undervolt was set to -1000 mV so assumed that the undervolt was not being applied. Unless a screenshot of the FIVR window is posted, you cannot tell.

True, I assumed undervolting a 1.03V CPU by 1.0V would not work.
Interesting to learn that part of that undervolt may be applied linked to Cache.

 

[Lawrence_phaw]

The core and cache undervolt work together. If cache undervolt is set to -150 mV, maybe max core undervolt is -250 mV. If you set -250 mV for the core or -500 mV for the core or -1000 mV, the CPU will still use -250 mV. The CPU ignores really big voltage request numbers.

Do some testing with Cinebench R20. Start testing with the core at -175 mV and then -200 mV, -225 mV, etc. At some point, your Cinebench scores will stop improving. That is the maximum undervolt for your CPU. Leave the cache at -150 mV for all tests if it is stable.

Thanks.
Now I can understand why the performance is not improving after -230mV.

 

[xtess3ractx]

Hi guys,

Been lurking this forum for about two years intermittently tweaking my undervolts and such but whenever I think I just about found the sweet spot I get random crashes. Particularly games such as MW, APEX.

The strange thing is I can run all benchmark suites without a problem but certain games just seem to crush my thermals and power consumption. For limits I got it too the state, that the only limit that pops up is edp ring, any idea how I can remedy this? and perhaps fix my BSOD (WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR) in certain games.

I've included the settings i'm using currently, the first bit where gpu clocks spike is running 3Dmark demo(Timespy), the rest is after running 3 ts benches and writing this.

 

[unclewebb]

I get random crashes

Random crashes are a sign that you have gone too far with your undervolt. Can you run the 1 and 2 Thread TS Bench tests with 0 errors? Set your turbo ratios back to their default values when testing. 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39

If you are not stable, do not undervolt the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice. Back the cache off to -100 mV and maybe back the core off to -150 mV or -125 mV. You need to get back to a point where you are 100% stable, all of the time. If you find that point, then you can try to increase the core and cache offsets. The Intel GPU is not used when gaming so most users do not bother with it.

The purpose of the Windows High Performance power plan is to run the CPU at full speed regardless of load. You have combined that with a Speed Shift EPP setting of 128 which is telling the CPU to slow down when lightly loaded. You are telling the CPU to do two different things. Pick one or the other. If you want a slow CPU when lightly loaded just set it to the default Balanced power plan in Windows. No need to check the Windows power plan feature in ThrottleStop. You do not need it.

Windows 10 can also take care of the Speed Shift EPP value. That is what the Windows power slider is for. If you do not check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop, this will allow Windows to adjust EPP. Open the FIVR window and you can watch in the monitoring table to see what EPP value Windows uses as you adjust the slider. If Windows can handle this, there is no need to have ThrottleStop and Windows both writing different info to the same CPU register.

Some things occasionally lighting up in red in Limit Reasons is not the end of the world. By reducing the turbo ratio limits, you have chosen to throttle your CPU by 700 MHz so what's a little more throttling? Your CPU is running at only 80°C. Why not let it run at the speed that Intel designed it to run at? Temperatures of 90°C to 95°C are normal temperatures for laptops with Intel's 6 core CPUs. Intel says any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature".

 

[xtess3ractx]

Ok, I'll make some adjustments.

I matched the Epp setting in windows.

The reason I capped turbo ratio limits though is because the 1070 starts to throttle around 84°C.

 

[unclewebb]

The reason I capped turbo power limits

That makes sense. The log file only shows the GPU getting up to 70°C so it looks like you still have quite a bit of headroom before it hits 84°C.

 

[TripleD]

Hello, I've just replaced my thermal paste and temperatures got a lot better, but I've went from Thermal Throttling to Power Throttling. When cinebench starts all cores goes at the 5th/6th core clock and it runs between 88º and 95º (before changing the thermal paste it literally thermal throttled just bystarting a game, capped at 2.9ghz with 95º) but after 10 or 20 seconds it power throttles and goes back to 3.3ghz at 85º, running much better than before but still not getting even close to 3.9ghz.

Could I get some help? I've tried everything I could've thought (btw 90/90 on power iare the default numbers on my hp omen 15)

 

[unclewebb]

Thermal Throttling to Power Throttling

Intel gave the 8750H a 45W TDP rating. Some laptop manufacturers decided to enforce that limit. During any long term test, the CPU will throttle and be limited to 45W. ThrottleStop cannot be used to solve this problem.

When running Cinebench you can try increasing your core offset to -200 mV or -225 mV. That might help a tiny bit but ultimately you will still be limited to 45W.

Now that you have fixed the thermal paste, you can set the turbo ratio limits back to their default values, 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39 and set Speed Shift Max back to 41.

If you are going to undervolt the Intel GPU then you also have to undervolt the iGPU Unslice. These two voltages should be set equally. There is very little to be gained. The Intel GPU is not used when gaming if you have an Nvidia GPU. Undervolting the Intel GPU can cause instability so most users do not bother.

Download ThrottleStop 9.2 and copy the new ThrottleStop.exe file into your ThrottleStop folder.

 

[Kingtanar]

Hi guys,

Been lurking this forum for about two years intermittently tweaking my undervolts and such but whenever I think I just about found the sweet spot I get random crashes. Particularly games such as MW, APEX.

The strange thing is I can run all benchmark suites without a problem but certain games just seem to crush my thermals and power consumption. For limits I got it too the state, that the only limit that pops up is edp ring, any idea how I can remedy this? and perhaps fix my BSOD (WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR) in certain games.

I've included the settings i'm using currently, the first bit where gpu clocks spike is running 3Dmark demo(Timespy), the rest is after running 3 ts benches and writing this.

I used to have a similar problem as you, trying to find the "sweet spot" for the cpu undervolting. I read on many forums that the I7-8750H was stable around -125mV for the core and cache, however, it was not stable for me (I have an i7-8750H too). Going straight to the point, I currently have and undervolt of -225mV for the core and -120mV for the cache, and no undervolt for the Intel GPU or System Agent. I haven't had any error while using the Throttlestop bench or any BSOD since applying this undervolt settings. As Unclewebb said, backing the cache a little can bring you stability, and then you can start decreasing the core more and more.

The value I set for the core was tested with TS bench and then Cinebench R23, so when I undervolted more, around -250mV for the core and got a lower score than with -225mV for the core, I knew this was my limit.

I don't know if this is on any use, but I don't check the Speed Shift EPP, since Windows sets a value of 84 for the balanced (at better performance slider position) power plan.. You can check this on the FIVR window, on the last parameter in the box in the right.

Also, I have a different undervolt when using battery, -130mV for the core and -100mV for cache, due to if I used the same undervolt profile as the plugged in, my laptop had some freezes from time to time.

I hope this helps you reaching lower temps and keeping the maximum performance your CPU can provide

 

[abactuon]

I recently bought MSI GF65 (i5-9300h,1660ti).
Configured by reading this forum:
CPU Core Offset : -220,7
CPU Cache Offset : -109,4
Intel GPU Offset : -70,3
iGPU Unslice : -70,3
Checked with TS Bench.
One problem is noise, I wanted to change the thermal paste, but then I turned it on 'Disable Turbo', and it turned out that the 2400 MHz frequency suits me.
In all my games (Prey 2017, Fallout 4, Red Dead Redemption 2 ...), I have an acceptable setting for me (High,1920x1080). Temperature (GPU,CPU - 70C), no noise.
I even overclocked it a little Nvidia GPU with the help MSI Afterburner, maybe this is not necessary.
For newbies like me, this is not obvious.
Is comfort more important than 'Cinebench' ?

 

[abactuon]

I have a question :
Why is there only 15W-20W in games, but it is advised to set TurboBoostPL>=45W, or is it something else.
Can I put TurboBoostPL=35W or will it be necessary to increase the voltage then.

 

[unclewebb]

I turned it on 'Disable Turbo', and it turned out that the 2400 MHz frequency suits me.

Why is there only 15W-20W in games

You slowed your CPU down. It will use less power running slow.

Laptop computers are very powerful. Many games are not programmed to take advantage of a modern CPU. Power consumption will not be high if only half of the CPU is being used.

 

[abactuon]

Many games are not programmed to take advantage of a modern CPU.

Yes, but they all always max out the frequency/watts by default, with no improvement in quality/comfort (for my configurations).

 

[Ch3m1zt]

i m limited of my knowledge of the time still today, so i turned the turb off and pushed afterburner to get peak on the 1060 6gb, and now started tinkering with this lappy again,
changed thermals and pads, to kryonout, i was about to go the liquid, but if u cant undervolt or find stable on a lappy, there is no point yet. learning curve has been great ty

You slowed your CPU down. It will use less power running slow.

Laptop computers are very powerful. Many games are not programmed to take advantage of a modern CPU. Power consumption will not be high if only half of the CPU is being used.

hence we are here trying to tame these 8750`s

I recently bought MSI GF65 (i5-9300h,1660ti).
Configured by reading this forum:
CPU Core Offset : -220,7
CPU Cache Offset : -109,4
Intel GPU Offset : -70,3
iGPU Unslice : -70,3
Checked with TS Bench.
One problem is noise, I wanted to change the thermal paste, but then I turned it on 'Disable Turbo', and it turned out that the 2400 MHz frequency suits me.
In all my games (Prey 2017, Fallout 4, Red Dead Redemption 2 ...), I have an acceptable setting for me (High,1920x1080). Temperature (GPU,CPU - 70C), no noise.
I even overclocked it a little Nvidia GPU with the help MSI Afterburner, maybe this is not necessary.
For newbies like me, this is not obvious.
Is comfort more important than 'Cinebench' ?

please read the posts from the firsts, and dont add randm numbers, coz every cip and board is different, its the russian rulette with these so ur numbers never gonna fit with other, so u gotta go the long run and step by step safe,

 

[ke1tht]

after i install the windows update, the EDP other light up in the Ring section. But before the windows update there are nothing light up even when gaming. Any way to fix that? thx

 

[unclewebb]

the EDP other light up in the Ring section

The RING - EDP OTHER limit reason is very sensitive. On some CPUs, it can constantly light up yellow even when a computer is idle with not much going on. You can ignore it. It is only a problem when it is red which indicates that CPU throttling is in progress.

Do not check the PP0 Power Limit. Clear this box.

Do some testing with Cinebench R20. There might be room to lower your CPU core voltage some more. There is usually not much reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. During gaming, the Intel GPU is not being used. Undervolting it can reduce overall stability. Better to leave the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice at +0.0000 so you can undervolt the CPU core some more if possible.

 

[NattyliteSaber]

@unclewebb

I saw you on a thread about the 8750h on notebook review. Anyways I have been playing around with this some more. Can you take a look at my log and give me some suggestions?
Currently my turbo limits are 41,41,40,40,39,39, under volt for both core and cache -144.5, turbo boost power limits 45 long 45 short turbo time 1. The game I was playing in this log is Star Citizen and it looks like I was reaching 90+. Thanks!

 

[unclewebb]

@NattyliteSaber - Your log file shows thermal throttling happening at 90°C. This means that the company that built your laptop are cowards. The Intel specified thermal throttling temperature for the 8750H is 100°C. When thermal throttling starts too soon, you lose out on maximum performance.

Have a look in the Options window. There is a setting called PROCHOT Offset that has been set to somewhere around 10 which is causing this premature throttling. If there is not a lock icon above this setting, you should be able to edit this value. Intel default is zero. Most laptops set this conservatively to 2 or 3.

CPU power consumption is only 15W when this throttling is going on. When a 45W CPU is hitting 90°C at one third of its rated power, that either means the heatsink is completely inadequate or it is filthy. It needs to be cleaned and the thermal paste needs to be replaced with something like Noctua NT-H2. Thermal paste in a gaming laptop does not last forever. This should be considered regular maintenance so learn to do this procedure yourself if you want it done right. At high temperatures, some thermal paste does not last long.

There is no need to undervolt the core and cache equally. Download Cinebench R20 and do some testing.

MAXON Cinebench R20.0 Download

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn

www.techpowerup.com

Set the core and cache to an offset of -125 mV for a baseline run. Now start bumping only the core in steps of -25 mV. Many users see improved performance or temperatures when setting the core and cache to different values. The core can go up to -200 mV to -225 mV and still be stable. Do some light load TS Bench 1 and 2 Thread tests to test for instability.

Fix the cooling first. That is the main problem.

 

[NattyliteSaber]

@NattyliteSaber - Your log file shows thermal throttling happening at 90°C. This means that the company that built your laptop are cowards. The Intel specified thermal throttling temperature for the 8750H is 100°C. When thermal throttling starts too soon, you lose out on maximum performance.

Have a look in the Options window. There is a setting called PROCHOT Offset that has been set to somewhere around 10 which is causing this premature throttling. If there is not a lock icon above this setting, you should be able to edit this value. Intel default is zero. Most laptops set this conservatively to 2 or 3.

CPU power consumption is only 15W when this throttling is going on. When a 45W CPU is hitting 90°C at one third of its rated power, that either means the heatsink is completely inadequate or it is filthy. It needs to be cleaned and the thermal paste needs to be replaced with something like Noctua NT-H2. Thermal paste in a gaming laptop does not last forever. This should be considered regular maintenance so learn to do this procedure yourself if you want it done right. At high temperatures, some thermal paste does not last long.

There is no need to undervolt the core and cache equally. Download Cinebench R20 and do some testing.

MAXON Cinebench R20.0 Download

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn

www.techpowerup.com

Set the core and cache to an offset of -125 mV for a baseline run. Now start bumping only the core in steps of -25 mV. Many users see improved performance or temperatures when setting the core and cache to different values. The core can go up to -200 mV to -225 mV and still be stable. Do some light load TS Bench 1 and 2 Thread tests to test for instability.

Fix the cooling first. That is the main problem.

I also forgot to mention that I did the IMON offsets as described in Hackness's thread regarding the 8750H on notebookreview. I have already reapplied the paste once but it was with some off the shelf thermal take paste from best buy. I'll give the Noctua a shot. The BD PROCHOT box on the main page of TS was unchecked and the section under options was unchecked and set to 10. Should i check both those and start playing with lower values? Thanks!

 

[unclewebb]

PROCHOT and BD PROCHOT are two different things. There is no need to clear the BD PROCHOT box unless Limit Reasons shows that you have a BD PROCHOT throttling problem that you are trying to solve.

As for PROCHOT Offset, if you do not see the lock icon then I would reduce this significantly towards 0. Your call whether you want to go right to the Intel default of 0 or leave 2 or 3 degrees of headroom.

 

[NattyliteSaber]

PROCHOT and BD PROCHOT are two different things. There is no need to clear the BD PROCHOT box unless Limit Reasons shows that you have a BD PROCHOT throttling problem that you are trying to solve.

As for PROCHOT Offset, if you do not see the lock icon then I would reduce this significantly towards 0. Your call whether you want to go right to the Intel default of 0 or leave 2 or 3 degrees of headroom.

I updated the bios to see if that would do anything and now i'm getting around 40 watts with temps in the high 80's to mid 90's. I have no idea what changed in the bios to allow this. Playing with the PROCHOT Offset in the options with values from 0-10 I see 90-100 degrees with wattage of 50-25. This with a undervolt of -145 core and cache. I agree that its a horribly cooling system and the main issue and the only way to raise the frequency is to lower the temps. Do you think liquid metal paste will be any better than the noctua? Thanks for all the help.

 

[dafttitan]

Hi guys,

I have a macbook with i7-8750h cpu and Razer core external gpu.
I noticed that the bottleneck in my games is the cpu getting hot.
I have read parts of this post (thanks!) and have been trying to configure Throttlestop correctly.

The bios seems to lock undervolting, FIVR settings are not applied.
I changed some other settings, the cpu is still getting hot but cinebench result went from 4900 to 5200 and I get higher fps in my games.

Could someone please have a look and let me know if I did this correctly?

I am attaching config and logs.

Thanks!

 

[Leooli]

Hey there guys

I have been playing with some Throttlestop settings lately trying to get the best of my system but I feel i'm losing too much performance maybe because of some wrong setting or misinformation.
Everytime I try to play something more demanding, my CPU instantly gets its temps to the sky, reaching my PROCHOT offset, staying in the 90-95ºC range, the same happens when running Cinebench R20.
I dont know the reasons for the notebook getting so hot even though I guess my setup isn't that bad, maybe it's because the place I live in achieves temperatures of like 30ºC midday and 25º at night? The only case I can make sense of the high temperatures is when I'm emulating some console.
I'm attaching my configs and some logs I made when running Valorant (I guess it's not that demanding) and Cinebench to test.
I also tried different voltages when running the bench and got some values and ended up sticking with the highest of them:

Core - Cache - Cinebench Score
125 125 2015
150 125 2333
175 125 2369
175 150 2405
175 175 2341
200 150 2474 - using this setup atm

My setup:
Notebook G7 7588
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz
16GB RAM
GPU NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050Ti
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Build 19042


Any help or piece of advice is much appreciated, I've been reading and trying everything I've found through this forum but I don't think I'm doing it right.
Thanks in advance,
Leo

 

[unclewebb]

The bios seems to lock undervolting

That is correct. Look at the top middle of the FIVR window. It says, FIVR Control - Locked. That means you cannot adjust the CPU voltages and it also means that you cannot adjust the turbo ratio limits. Both of these are locked. Your CPU supports +4 bins of turbo overclocking but guess what? That is locked too. You have a CPU with lots of performance potential but no way to use it.

The rest of your settings look OK. You can increase the Speed Shift Max value from 41 to 43 but that is about it. Your CPU is hitting the full 100°C thermal throttling temperature. Not sure how user friendly your laptop is. You can try changing the thermal paste. If the laptops heatsink and fan are inadequate, this will probably not solve your problem.

@Leooli - Your CPU is running great during Valorant. It is mostly maintaining the full 39.00 multiplier.

During Cinebench, your CPU is constantly thermal throttling. A well cooled 8750H can score over 3000 points in this benchmark. You can try replacing the thermal paste or just stick to playing games like Valorant. Any game that is more demanding is going to have your CPU pegged at the thermal throttling temperature, just like Cinebench.

 

[dafttitan]

That is correct. Look at the top middle of the FIVR window. It says, FIVR Control - Locked. That means you cannot adjust the CPU voltages and it also means that you cannot adjust the turbo ratio limits. Both of these are locked. Your CPU supports +4 bins of turbo overclocking but guess what? That is locked too. You have a CPU with lots of performance potential but no way to use it.

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I did a quick search and it seems there is no way to unlock undervolt on "newer" Mac devices. I am thinking more and more that I should get away from Apple.