MSI controversy

[Bones]

OK - I ran across this earlier and it's kinda intriguing.
Some of you have probrably seen it already and that's OK.

I have said before MSI had improved things since all the problems they were having with their VRM woes of the past (AM3/AM3+ boards) and although it seems like the upper tier boards of today are indeed better, apparently there are still issues.
With all that it seems after a reviewer (Hardware Unboxed) had done some reviews along with others having done the same themselves, along comes Tom's with a review that goes against what was found earlier with what was apparently a different testing methology and from what I gather, even had a "Problem" with the findings of Hardware Unboxed.

I also seem to recall the owner of Tom's Hardware (Correct me if I'm wrong about that) coming in here once and saying if we didn't want to watch his forced advertisement content via ad blockers he'd rather us not visit his site at all....
And I recall the reaction from it since I too had something to say about it.

Now - I can't vouch for either side of it but with the controversy that seems to exist, this (to me) would be important for guys wantng to buy a new board, namely an MSI board and could well be a thing to look out for.
As for the review/video, here it is and I'll let you guys decide for yourselves what's up.

 

[Caring1]

Tom's just got burned.

 

[kayjay010101]

Why is this being brought up almost a year after it happened?

 

[SL2]

I stopped reading Toms in 2004. I recently found out that they have some good PSU reviews these days, but I haven't really looked into that.

 

[Bones]

Why is this being brought up almost a year after it happened?

I'll have to say I only saw this in another place today but one concern I had was has anything changed since?

I had said before MSI had made improvements but that essentially covers everything they make and I wasn't wanting to mislead. If it's an older thing, so be it but I guess the real question is if the issue is still relevant today and if so, it's something that still matters?
The thing about Toms figures in and I'd hate to know folks are buying these without knowing about it in the first place, that it even was a problem at all.

I apologize but still, has anything changed since?
I know my ACE has done well at least.

 

[trickson]

Yeah I picked up one for my first gen R7 1700X and it is less than spectacular.
In fact it is the last MSI MB I will be buying.
I am ASUS TUF now!
IT's all about the TUF!

 

[Bones]

Yeah I picked up one for my first gen R7 1700X and it is less than spectacular.
In fact it is the last MSI MB I will be buying.
I am ASUS TUF now!
IT's all about the TUF!

Good to hear.

 

[Deleted member 205776]

In terms of motherboards I don't think I'll be buying anything other than ROG Strix. No other board has served me this well, and my previous Gigabyte boards have been the stuff of nightmares.

Can't complain about my MSI GPU though. Best acoustics and cooling I've seen on a GPU by far.

 

[trickson]

Good to hear.

It's is, Isn't it?
For the most part I have always like MSI MB's but after the FX8300 (Listed in sig) MSI MB up and died, Just up and died one day.
I purchased an Asus from Ebay, Took all the parts off the MSI and put them on the ASUS and BOOM Fired right up and still running today.
Personally if I would have known about this back then I would not have purchased any MSI MB's.
And from the LOOKS of things they are NOT getting any better! WTF? MSI just plain stinks anymore. sorry they just do. (I hope I can say that) I mean when the VRM blew it did stink bad like burn toast and melted plastic.

 

[kapone32]

I have bought about 6 MSI boards in the last 10 months. The X570 Pro that Hardware Unboxed lambasted for the VRM was and is the cheapest X570 board you can buy in Canada. I would not pair it with a $600+ CPU like the 3900X but any budget CPU will work wonderfully from the 3200G all the way to the 5600x. I was able to OC the 5600X to 4.7 GHZ all cores @ 1.325 and it fully supported 3600 mhz on all 4 DIMMs. Yes the VRM ran in the 60s most times but the board never shutdown. I also have the Unify. The Unify is a great board but a waste of money with a 5600X. Having said that I would have no issue dropping a 5950X onto that board and OC the snot out of it. There is no board vendor that is any different. Gigabyte has it's UD line up, Asus has it's Prime and As Rock have some too and do I even need to mention BIostar? The one thing I will say for MSI boards is from the cheapest to the most expensive, they all have a USB C Front header. As someone that sells PCs as a hobby using MSI boards with cases like the Corsair 4000D Airflow were academic. Add a board with a WIFI 6 adapter for $124 (CAD). When just the adapter alone is $79.99 (CAD)?

 

[trickson]

I have bought about 6 MSI boards in the last 10 months. The X570 Pro that Hardware Unboxed lambasted for the VRM was and is the cheapest X570 board you can buy in Canada. I would not pair it with a $600+ CPU like the 3900X but any budget CPU will work wonderfully from the 3200G all the way to the 5600x. I was able to OC the 5600X to 4.7 GHZ all cores @ 1.325 and it fully supported 3600 mhz on all 4 DIMMs. Yes the VRM ran in the 60s most times but the board never shutdown. I also have the Unify. The Unify is a great board but a waste of money with a 5600X. Having said that I would have no issue dropping a 5950X onto that board and OC the snot out of it. There is no board vendor that is any different. Gigabyte has it's UD line up, Asus has it's Prime and As Rock have some too and do I even need to mention BIostar? The one thing I will say for MSI boards is from the cheapest to the most expensive, they all have a USB C Front header. As someone that sells PCs as a hobby using MSI boards with cases like the Corsair 4000D Airflow were academic. Add a board with a WIFI 6 adapter for $124 (CAD). When just the adapter alone is $79.99 (CAD)?

Hey I am not bashing MSI. I currently have my R7 1700X on one and it is just fine. I would love to put 3 RX580's on this MB that would tell me and everyone here just how good the MSI MB really is.
I really like my X470 it kicks ass and I would challenge anyone to a duel with that system! So that said ROCK ON MSI! Just don't over volt the crap out of them.
First off you really can't over clock or over volt AMD Ryzen CPU's it is NOT good for them. They are NOT like the FX Black Unlocked they in fact NORMAL CPU's.

Here it is if you think you can beat it in any way then try!

MSI FTW!!

 

[Vayra86]

Why is this being brought up almost a year after it happened?

For the very same reason you get pages full of ads for vacuum cleaners after buying a vacuum cleaner.

Its nearly 25 feb 2021. A year ago. Algorithms doing their work to feed us with 'information'. After all its somehow relevant seeing as the dates nearly match (right!?)

All we really do is parrot whatever we get served.

I'll have to say I only saw this in another place today

There you go

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I pointed this out about their budget x570 lines for the past year and was mostly dismissed by people.... They've improved the majority of their newer boards substantially since though.

Now it's asrock with their budget Z490 boards that are cutting too many corners

 

[trickson]

I pointed this out about their budget x570 lines for the past year and was mostly dismissed by people.... They've improved the majority of their newer boards substantially since though.

Now it's asrock with their budget Z490 boards that are cutting too many corners

This is why I went with the ASUS TUF MB for the X570 Chipset I wanted and the CPU is the R7 3700X Just an absolute monster!

 

[PaulieG]

...First off you really can't over clock or over volt AMD Ryzen CPU's it is NOT good for them. They are NOT like the FX Black Unlocked they in fact NORMAL CPU's.

Slightly off topic, but this is simply not true. Fear mongering. Ryzen can be prone to electromigration from heat, just like any other cpu. From some reports they might be slightly more sensitive, so it's advised that you keep voltage under 1.3v. That still gives you a ton of headroom for all core overclocking from stock. Now, whether it's worth it or not is an entirely different conversation. For gamers, the answer is no. However, if you simply overclock for the joy and challenge of doing so, it most certainly is worth it.

 

[Deleted member 205776]

Managed to get my 3900X at 4.35 GHz all core @ 1.25 v stable. Was it worth it? No. I'd rather keep my CPU stock, even saw it boost to 4.75 GHz once.

 

[trickson]

Managed to get my 3900X at 4.35 GHz all core @ 1.25 v stable. Was it worth it? No. I'd rather keep my CPU stock, even saw it boost to 4.75 GHz once.

LOL isn't that just the BOOST level anyway?
I've managed the boost clocks on all cores too, This is not however an UNLOCKED Chip therefor you can get the rated max yeah but try going over 200MHz All Cores without 1.4Vcore.. They also get really hot REALLY fast and an AIR cooler no matter how good (MINE IS TOP OF THE LINE) just can not expel the heat fast enough.
IMHO the marketing skills of AMD are fantastic got everyone thinking the CPU is some magical unlocked thing when once you hit the max boost it becomes clear it is NOT!
Not like the FX Black edition CPU's. There is something about the Ryzen CPU that makes you think they are when they are not.
I have seen this on ALL of my Ryzen systems As YOU can't see I have 3!

 

[Deleted member 205776]

LOL isn't that just the BOOST level anyway?
I've managed the boost clocks on all cores too, This is not however an UNLOCKED Chip therefor you can get the rated max yeah but try going over 200MHz All Cores without 1.4Vcore.. They also get really hot REALLY fast and an AIR cooler no matter how good (MINE IS TOP OF THE LINE) just can not expel the heat fast enough.
IMHO the marketing skills of AMD are fantastic got everyone thinking the CPU is some magical unlocked thing when once you hit the max boost it becomes clear it is NOT!
Not like the FX Black edition CPU's. There is something about the Ryzen CPU that makes you think they are when they are not.
I have seen this on ALL of my Ryzen systems As YOU can't see I have 3!

The max boost for the 3900X is 4.6, mine hit 4.75 and even 4.8 once, haven't even turned PBO on.

My CPU was cool at 4.35 GHz all core due to my NH-D15S and the low voltage.

 

[PaulieG]

LOL isn't that just the BOOST level anyway?
I've managed the boost clocks on all cores too, This is not however an UNLOCKED Chip therefor you can get the rated max yeah but try going over 200MHz All Cores without 1.4Vcore.. They also get really hot REALLY fast and an AIR cooler no matter how good (MINE IS TOP OF THE LINE) just can not expel the heat fast enough.
IMHO the marketing skills of AMD are fantastic got everyone thinking the CPU is some magical unlocked thing when once you hit the max boost it becomes clear it is NOT!
Not like the FX Black edition CPU's. There is something about the Ryzen CPU that makes you think they are when they are not.
I have seen this on ALL of my Ryzen systems As YOU can't see I have 3!

I spent an hour yesterday overclocking my new x5600 on the stock cooler, just for fun while I wait for my WC stuff from EK. 4.4ghz all core on 1.14v. It got a little hot, but nothing dangerous. Care to bet what my clocks and temps will be like under WC on 1.2-1.25v? I'd bet it will be impressive at least from a numbers/benchmark standpoint.

Playing around with the 5600x on stock cooler | TechPowerUp Forums

Sorry for taking this thread off track. Carry on.

 

[Selaya]

I stopped reading Toms in 2004. I recently found out that they have some good PSU reviews these days, but I haven't really looked into that.

They are made by the same person who's also reviewing them for TPU.

 

[John Naylor]

As to Tom's ... any web site that is purchased by Purch, essentially a product placement entity, should be ignored. As to the alleged brand related failures .... hooey. People don't like to bear responsibility for their own decisions and sleep better blaming someone else. We started building PCs in the early 90s and, we went about 10 years being strictly an Asus shop. But Asus succumbed to pressure to squeeze out more profits and created the AsRock subsidiary to cash in on the low end 'builder" market. After they spun off that, they too started making low end stuf caiuse there is money to be made there.

What we saw starting with Z87 / nVidia 7xx era is Asus stopped winning the performance crowns and at the same time that Asus reliability started to tank. After Z97 Asus was againcompeting for the top spots performance crowns, but RoG reliability tanked. We started using using TUF for workhorses and MSI for Gaming. Today, every manufacturer akes bords that have great rekliability, great performance and others .... not so much. If ya worried about VRMs, then check what ya getting before you choose... not the brand of board but th emake and model of the VRMs.

Ya wanted a great LGA 1200 / 490 board with top notch VRMs ...

AsRock - None
Asus - Hero, Apex, Formula, Extreme (ASP 1405I / TDA 21462, TDA 214772, TDA 21490)
Gigabyte - Auros Master, Auros extreme (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)
MSI - Ace, Unify and Godike VRMs (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)

Ya wanted a great AM4 / B450 / X470board with top notch VRMs ... they were rare. Everybody did better with X570 where the goal was 60 or 70 amp boards w/ ISL6617A, SiC634 / SiC639 / IR3555 / IR3559, IR3555 or TDA 21472.

Why do manufacturers make cheaper boards .... a) because not everyone needs a high and gaming, mining or rendering box and b) because people cant afford the high priced stuff. But it's not like every manufacturer isn't trying to satisfy all market segments. If you want quality you should be looking at X ot Z series boards. Dropping doen to a B series on a gaming box for example isn't just about the chipset ... you often wind up with substandard sound and LAN subsystems. Be an educated comsumer

 

[kapone32]

As to Tom's ... any web site that is purchased by Purch, essentially a product placement entity, should be ignored. As to the alleged brand related failures .... hooey. People don't like to bear responsibility for their own decisions and sleep better blaming someone else. We started building PCs in the early 90s and, we went about 10 years being strictly an Asus shop. But Asus succumbed to pressure to squeeze out more profits and created the AsRock subsidiary to cash in on the low end 'builder" market. After they spun off that, they too started making low end stuf caiuse there is money to be made there.

What we saw starting with Z87 / nVidia 7xx era is Asus stopped winning the performance crowns and at the same time that Asus reliability started to tank. After Z97 Asus was againcompeting for the top spots performance crowns, but RoG reliability tanked. We started using using TUF for workhorses and MSI for Gaming. Today, every manufacturer akes bords that have great rekliability, great performance and others .... not so much. If ya worried about VRMs, then check what ya getting before you choose... not the brand of board but th emake and model of the VRMs.

Ya wanted a great LGA 1200 / 490 board with top notch VRMs ...

AsRock - None
Asus - Hero, Apex, Formula, Extreme (ASP 1405I / TDA 21462, TDA 214772, TDA 21490)
Gigabyte - Auros Master, Auros extreme (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)
MSI - Ace, Unify and Godike VRMs (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)

Ya wanted a great AM4 / B450 / X470board with top notch VRMs ... they were rare. Everybody did better with X570 where the goal was 60 or 70 amp boards w/ ISL6617A, SiC634 / SiC639 / IR3555 / IR3559, IR3555 or TDA 21472.

Why do manufacturers make cheaper boards .... a) because not everyone needs a high and gaming, mining or rendering box and b) because people cant afford the high priced stuff. But it's not like every manufacturer isn't trying to satisfy all market segments. If you want quality you should be looking at X ot Z series boards. Dropping doen to a B series on a gaming box for example isn't just about the chipset ... you often wind up with substandard sound and LAN subsystems. Be an educated comsumer

I don't feel you needed the VRMs on the X470 boards like the Gaming 7 -and Taichi

 

[PaulieG]

As to Tom's ... any web site that is purchased by Purch, essentially a product placement entity, should be ignored. As to the alleged brand related failures .... hooey. People don't like to bear responsibility for their own decisions and sleep better blaming someone else. We started building PCs in the early 90s and, we went about 10 years being strictly an Asus shop. But Asus succumbed to pressure to squeeze out more profits and created the AsRock subsidiary to cash in on the low end 'builder" market. After they spun off that, they too started making low end stuf caiuse there is money to be made there.

What we saw starting with Z87 / nVidia 7xx era is Asus stopped winning the performance crowns and at the same time that Asus reliability started to tank. After Z97 Asus was againcompeting for the top spots performance crowns, but RoG reliability tanked. We started using using TUF for workhorses and MSI for Gaming. Today, every manufacturer akes bords that have great rekliability, great performance and others .... not so much. If ya worried about VRMs, then check what ya getting before you choose... not the brand of board but th emake and model of the VRMs.

Ya wanted a great LGA 1200 / 490 board with top notch VRMs ...

AsRock - None
Asus - Hero, Apex, Formula, Extreme (ASP 1405I / TDA 21462, TDA 214772, TDA 21490)
Gigabyte - Auros Master, Auros extreme (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)
MSI - Ace, Unify and Godike VRMs (ISL 69269, ISL 6617, / ISL 99390)

Ya wanted a great AM4 / B450 / X470board with top notch VRMs ... they were rare. Everybody did better with X570 where the goal was 60 or 70 amp boards w/ ISL6617A, SiC634 / SiC639 / IR3555 / IR3559, IR3555 or TDA 21472.

Why do manufacturers make cheaper boards .... a) because not everyone needs a high and gaming, mining or rendering box and b) because people cant afford the high priced stuff. But it's not like every manufacturer isn't trying to satisfy all market segments. If you want quality you should be looking at X ot Z series boards. Dropping doen to a B series on a gaming box for example isn't just about the chipset ... you often wind up with substandard sound and LAN subsystems. Be an educated comsumer

You do have some muddy waters at the top of B550 and low-mid X570 boards with SIC639 and 50A power stage current.

 

[dirtyferret]

They are made by the same person who's also reviewing them for TPU.

just FYI, performed and written by the same person but edited by different people. There is the possibility of two different scores for the exact same results.

 

[ThrashZone]

Spoiler: Other content

OK - I ran across this earlier and it's kinda intriguing.
Some of you have probrably seen it already and that's OK.

I have said before MSI had improved things since all the problems they were having with their VRM woes of the past (AM3/AM3+ boards) and although it seems like the upper tier boards of today are indeed better, apparently there are still issues.
With all that it seems after a reviewer (Hardware Unboxed) had done some reviews along with others having done the same themselves, along comes Tom's with a review that goes against what was found earlier with what was apparently a different testing methology and from what I gather, even had a "Problem" with the findings of Hardware Unboxed.

I also seem to recall the owner of Tom's Hardware (Correct me if I'm wrong about that) coming in here once and saying if we didn't want to watch his forced advertisement content via ad blockers he'd rather us not visit his site at all....
And I recall the reaction from it since I too had something to say about it.

Spoiler: Other content

Now - I can't vouch for either side of it but with the controversy that seems to exist, this (to me) would be important for guys wantng to buy a new board, namely an MSI board and could well be a thing to look out for.
As for the review/video, here it is and I'll let you guys decide for yourselves what's up.

Hi,
That's been my policy but I never visited his site anyway even with ublock origin lol