Fast (>3600MT/s) 2x16GB RAM recommendations for Ryzen 5000

[Valantar]

Yes, I know there are >9000 threads on this subject, but to be honest, googling around is driving me crazy, so I'm hoping someone will help me out here. I'm looking for a 2x16GB RAM kit for an ITX Ryzen build. I have had a great experience with Crucial's Micron E-die Ballistix Sport LT (3200c16, mine OC'd to 3800c16 1.38V with a 4650G), but sadly those don't seem to come in 16GB versions. I don't plan on going crazy on overclocking, but I'd like something in the 3600-3800MT/s range to run the IF at 1800-1900, and of course I'd be willing to buy 4000MT/s and downclock if that's a better solution. I don't care either way about RGB, and my aesthetic preference is towards simplicity, but it doesn't really matter much here.

For now I'm looking at a G-Skill TridentZ Neo 3600c16 kit as some giant list I found told me those were supposed to be guaranteed Samsung B-die. Is this a good choice? Do you have any better suggestions? They need to be available in sweden (inet.se, proshop.se, komplett.se, webhallen.se) and I'd like to stay below 3000 SEK.

 

[Deleted member 205776]

That kit is a F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC, pretty sure the C at the end marks the usage of Hynix C-die. Those timings don't look like B-Die to me either. My F4-3600C16Q-32GTZN kit (notice the lack of a "C"), is indeed B-Die with the proper 16-16-16-36 timings:

 

[Valantar]

That kit is a F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC, pretty sure the C at the end marks the usage of Hynix C-die. Those timings don't look like B-Die to me either. My F4-3600C16Q-32GTZN kit (notice the lack of a "C"), is indeed B-Die with the proper 16-16-16-36 timings:

Yeah, that was what I was sort of suspecting - that C didn't seem to be explained anywhere. The non-C version is a bit more expensive than I would like (3200 SEK) but I could stomach that, but it's also on backorder with a >3 week delivery time ... bah. I'll keep looking, I guess. Unless Hynix C is actually decent?

If not, I stumbled across a 2x16GB Ballistix Sport LT kit with the AES SKU designation (which should indicate Micron E-die) at another store at roughly the same price as the TridentZ C, but it's a 3000cl15 kit, which makes me a tad wary. Now, as I said, my 3200c16 kit clocked to 3800c16 with zero issues, and 3000c15 is essentially the same as 3200c16, but ... it still feels like a risk. Should I take the chance on that kit?

 

[thesmokingman]

Yeah, that was what I was sort of suspecting - that C didn't seem to be explained anywhere. The non-C version is a bit more expensive than I would like (3200 SEK) but I could stomach that, but it's also on backorder with a >3 week delivery time ... bah. I'll keep looking, I guess. Unless Hynix C is actually decent?

If not, I stumbled across a 2x16GB Ballistix Sport LT kit with the AES SKU designation (which should indicate Micron E-die) at another store at roughly the same price as the TridentZ C, but it's a 3000cl15 kit, which makes me a tad wary. Now, as I said, my 3200c16 kit clocked to 3800c16 with zero issues, and 3000c15 is essentially the same as 3200c16, but ... it still feels like a risk. Should I take the chance on that kit?

Those are hynix cjr, known to work on amd w/o issue. From what I've seen some have gotten it to clock up a 100mhz ish. These sell for 220 usd at newegg. Last fall I bought F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (2x16gb) at newegg for 260 usd, and they're selling for 309usd now. The F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB are true b-die with decent binning so that should give you an idea of the cost difference to decide whether its worth it or not. I mention this cuz the sticks you're looking at aren't really fast.

 

[Valantar]

Those are hynix cjr, known to work on amd w/o issue. From what I've seen some have gotten it to clock up a 100mhz ish. These sell for 220 usd at newegg. Last fall I bought F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB (2x16gb) at newegg for 260 usd, and they're selling for 309usd now. The F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB are true b-die with decent binning so that should give you an idea of the cost difference to decide whether its worth it or not. I mention this cuz the sticks you're looking at aren't really fast.

Just to clarify, ("those" can indicate several kits from what you quoted ), you mean the ones I mentioned initially are CJR, right?

I looked at the ones you mentioned previously, but the price difference is nowhere near worth it for me - at more than 3900SEK they're more than 50% up from the CJR ones. At this point I'm leaning towards that Crucial kit instead. As I said I don't care about maximum performance, but I do want some flexibility, and at least my previous experience with Micron E-die gave me that in spades.

Just as a point of interest, does anyone know what chips Crucial uses in their other Ballistix series (Ballistix/- RGB /- Max)? There's a lot more availability of these other series.

 

[thesmokingman]

Just to clarify, ("those" can indicate several kits from what you quoted ), you mean the ones I mentioned initially are CJR, right?

I looked at the ones you mentioned previously, but the price difference is nowhere near worth it for me - at more than 3900SEK they're more than 50% up from the CJR ones. At this point I'm leaning towards that Crucial kit instead. As I said I don't care about maximum performance, but I do want some flexibility, and at least my previous experience with Micron E-die gave me that in spades.

Just as a point of interest, does anyone know what chips Crucial uses in their other Ballistix series (Ballistix/- RGB /- Max)? There's a lot more availability of these other series.

Yea, the ones you linked initially. As a general rule you can tell b-dies from others by their primary timmings with b-die being matched generally all the way up to 4000mhz. At 4000 and higher we start to see mismatched b-die timings like the kit I mentioned which run 17-18-18-18.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yes, I know there are >9000 threads on this subject, but to be honest, googling around is driving me crazy, so I'm hoping someone will help me out here. I'm looking for a 2x16GB RAM kit for an ITX Ryzen build. I have had a great experience with Crucial's Micron E-die Ballistix Sport LT (3200c16, mine OC'd to 3800c16 1.38V with a 4650G), but sadly those don't seem to come in 16GB versions. I don't plan on going crazy on overclocking, but I'd like something in the 3600-3800MT/s range to run the IF at 1800-1900, and of course I'd be willing to buy 4000MT/s and downclock if that's a better solution. I don't care either way about RGB, and my aesthetic preference is towards simplicity, but it doesn't really matter much here.

For now I'm looking at a G-Skill TridentZ Neo 3600c16 kit as some giant list I found told me those were supposed to be guaranteed Samsung B-die. Is this a good choice? Do you have any better suggestions? They need to be available in sweden (inet.se, proshop.se, komplett.se, webhallen.se) and I'd like to stay below 3000 SEK.

Looking to ditch the 4650G? The Neo 3600 16-19-19 is CJR; the Neo 3600 16-16-16 is B-die.

CJR's good for set-and-forget daily performance - it's surprisingly competitive even with looser tRCD/tRP/tRFC. It's not very well suited to "overclocking" in the traditional sense; even best-case you'll start struggling around 4000 (at which point tCL, tRCD and tRP all need to loosen up), tRCD doesn't scale below 19, tRP doesn't scale below 19, and you're generally looking at 250ns tRFC or higher. But the real-world performance is there, and compatibility is good.

CJR will always be rated x-19-19-39 or looser at 3600+.

As for Micron you'll be fine, but the timings will probably need to be pretty loose (though anecdotally I hear 16Gb Rev.B is tighter than previous Micron dies). If you're not looking to overclock at the high end with desynced Infinity Fabric (which is really where Micron's Rev.B and Rev.E shine, they go like a mofo), then dual rank CJR and DJR would still perform better than Micron. Micron really suffers on tRFC and there's no way around it except pushing its speed higher than other ICs can go.

Another issue with Micron is that with the introduction of 16Gb Rev.B, it's harder to find dual-rank sticks due to the mix of 8Gb Rev.E and 16Gb Rev.B. Rev.B enabled Crucial to make 16GB SR sticks, so you'll have to get a 2x32GB Ballistix kit if you want to be certain you have a dual-rank kit, otherwise you'd just be hoping you get Rev.E in 2x16GB (and Rev.E isn't really something to hope for either, it's worse than Rev.B). The SR penalty is not something you want on a Ryzen 5000 CPU where you won't be exceeding 4000, rendering you unable to make up for that inherent ~400MT/s single rank performance deficit with raw speed, something you otherwise would be able to do with Renoir.

I wasn't aware of the G.skill 4000 17-18-18 kit that is allegedly B-die according to BZ. If that's true, that could be a pretty decent buy. Otherwise, for less expensive 2x16GB B-die it's the usual culprits, 3200CL14 or 3600 16-16-16. Might allow you to do 3600CL14 to 3866CL14 depending on the quality.

As a side note, if you want a G.skill kit, you can take a look at the sticker on the DIMM before you buy it. Take note of the 042 code, it'll tell you what ICs the sticks have. Last few digits should be 8810B for B-die.

 

[Valantar]

Looking to ditch the 4650G? The Neo 3600 16-19-19 is CJR; the Neo 3600 16-16-16 is B-die.

CJR's good for set-and-forget daily performance - it's surprisingly competitive even with looser tRCD/tRP/tRFC. It's not very well suited to "overclocking" in the traditional sense; even best-case you'll start struggling around 4000 (at which point tCL, tRCD and tRP all need to loosen up), tRCD doesn't scale below 19, tRP doesn't scale below 19, and you're generally looking at 250ns tRFC or higher. But the real-world performance is there, and compatibility is good.

CJR will always be rated x-19-19-39 or looser at 3600+.

As for Micron you'll be fine, but the timings will probably need to be pretty loose (though anecdotally I hear 16Gb Rev.B is tighter than previous Micron dies). If you're not looking to overclock at the high end with desynced Infinity Fabric (which is really where Micron's Rev.B and Rev.E shine, they go like a mofo), then dual rank CJR and DJR would still perform better than Micron. Micron really suffers on tRFC and there's no way around it except pushing its speed higher than other ICs can go.

Another issue with Micron is that with the introduction of 16Gb Rev.B, it's harder to find dual-rank sticks due to the mix of 8Gb Rev.E and 16Gb Rev.B. Rev.B enabled Crucial to make 16GB SR sticks, so you'll have to get a 2x32GB Ballistix kit if you want to be certain you have a dual-rank kit, otherwise you'd just be hoping you get Rev.E in 2x16GB (and Rev.E isn't really something to hope for either, it's worse than Rev.B). The SR penalty is not something you want on a Ryzen 5000 CPU where you won't be exceeding 4000, rendering you unable to make up for that inherent ~400MT/s single rank performance deficit with raw speed, something you otherwise would be able to do with Renoir.

I wasn't aware of the G.skill 4000 17-18-18 kit that is allegedly B-die according to BZ. If that's true, that could be a pretty decent buy. Otherwise, for less expensive 2x16GB B-die it's the usual culprits, 3200CL14 or 3600 16-16-16. Might allow you to do 3600CL14 to 3866CL14 depending on the quality.

As a side note, if you want a G.skill kit, you can take a look at the sticker on the DIMM before you buy it. Take note of the 042 code, it'll tell you what ICs the sticks have. Last few digits should be 8810B for B-die.

Thanks, that gives me something more to go off of. The 4650G isn't going anywhere, this is for a main PC upgrade

To give a bit more detail: what I want most of all is a kit that lets me with easily set ~3800MT/s/1900IF without too much tweaking. I'm hoping for something as easy as my 4650G build, where the RAM tuning essentially consisted of plugging in the numbers from dram calc and running a few stability tests

Just to sum up, to see if I'm getting everything right:
- CJR performs well at the speeds and timings it can hit (better than others at similar settings?), but isn't likely to clock much higher than 3600 - though 3800 might be doable. 2X16GB kits are likely dual rank.
- Micron E is difficult to find in these capacities, B is more common, both clock high but with kind of slow timings, but 2X16GB kits are likely to be single rank.
- Samsung B-die is good in terms of both speeds and timings (as long as it's a good bin), but is typically expensive AF.

For reference, I've mostly landed on getting the ASRock B550 PG ITX - I initially wanted the Aorus, but it doesn't have a front USB 3.2G2 header, and the ASRock looks good otherwise too. I considered the Asus, but it has poor rear I/O and is surprisingly cheaply built for its price (not that it matters in my use, but its VRM is surprisingly weak), and I dont like MSI.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks, that gives me something more to go off of. The 4650G isn't going anywhere, this is for a main PC upgrade

To give a bit more detail: what I want most of all is a kit that lets me with easily set ~3800MT/s/1900IF without too much tweaking. I'm hoping for something as easy as my 4650G build, where the RAM tuning essentially consisted of plugging in the numbers from dram calc and running a few stability tests

Just to sum up, to see if I'm getting everything right:
- CJR performs well at the speeds and timings it can hit (better than others at similar settings?), but isn't likely to clock much higher than 3600 - though 3800 might be doable. 2X16GB kits are likely dual rank.
- Micron E is difficult to find in these capacities, B is more common, both clock high but with kind of slow timings, but 2X16GB kits are likely to be single rank.
- Samsung B-die is good in terms of both speeds and timings (as long as it's a good bin), but is typically expensive AF.

For reference, I've mostly landed on getting the ASRock B550 PG ITX - I initially wanted the Aorus, but it doesn't have a front USB 3.2G2 header, and the ASRock looks good otherwise too. I considered the Asus, but it has poor rear I/O and is surprisingly cheaply built for its price (not that it matters in my use, but its VRM is surprisingly weak), and I dont like MSI.

More or less right on, yeah. The ASRock is more or less equivalent to the Aorus, good if you can find it for a good price and don't mind the shorter warranty. Has a better socket position too.

Your average CJR should be able to do 3800, it can just get a little bit close to its widely repeated 1.45V "safe limit". And that's my 2019 understanding of CJR - they've been coming out with better, higher bins for CJR, and throwing DJR (even better) in the mix. The 3600CL16 bin is good CJR. I just don't know which kits are DJR, which is the real champ.

If you can find a 2x16GB kit of FlareX 3200CL14, that will be relatively cheap B-die. Easy route to 3600CL14. I feel like there is a SKU that is 3200/14, not sure tho.

It's also Ryzen 5000; has a roughly 8-9ns advantage over 3000 at the same settings. I thought I'd be leveraging my 5900X to push 3800 on my CJR, but I'm more than happy at 3600. Carries over to actual memory performance too, runs about 113s membench while my 3700X was at 120s.

 

[Valantar]

More or less right on, yeah. The ASRock is more or less equivalent to the Aorus, good if you can find it for a good price and don't mind the shorter warranty. Has a better socket position too.

Your average CJR should be able to do 3800, it can just get a little bit close to its widely repeated 1.45V "safe limit". And that's my 2019 understanding of CJR - they've been coming out with better, higher bins for CJR, and throwing DJR (even better) in the mix. The 3600CL16 bin is good CJR. I just don't know which kits are DJR, which is the real champ.

If you can find a 2x16GB kit of FlareX 3200CL14, that will be relatively cheap B-die. Easy route to 3600CL14. I feel like there is a SKU that is 3200/14, not sure tho.

It's also Ryzen 5000; has a roughly 8-9ns advantage over 3000 at the same settings. I thought I'd be leveraging my 5900X to push 3800 on my CJR, but I'm more than happy at 3600. Carries over to actual memory performance too, runs about 113s membench while my 3700X was at 120s.

Hmmmmm, FlareX 3200c14 you say... like this? That's within my budget and available without too much of a wait (I'll likely be waiting months for my GPU anyway - I've backordered a Nitro+ 6800 XT - so it's not like it matters all that much, but still ). Sounds tempting. The (likely) Micron E Ballistix Sport LT kit is a bit cheaper, but not enough to really matter, especially if it's likely to be single rank.

As for the motherboards, both come with 3-year warranties here in Sweden - the law doesn't technically require that long a warranty, but it does guarantee you the right to have defects or issues addressed for three years after purchase, so my impression is that most companies just offer 3-year warranties to simplify the process. The ASRock is 500SEK more expensive, but that's a price I'll gladly pay for usable front USB-C.

 

[tabascosauz]

Hmmmmm, FlareX 3200c14 you say... like this? That's within my budget and available without too much of a wait (I'll likely be waiting months for my GPU anyway - I've backordered a Nitro+ 6800 XT - so it's not like it matters all that much, but still ). Sounds tempting. The (likely) Micron E Ballistix Sport LT kit is a bit cheaper, but not enough to really matter, especially if it's likely to be single rank.

As for the motherboards, both come with 3-year warranties here in Sweden - the law doesn't technically require that long a warranty, but it does guarantee you the right to have defects or issues addressed for three years after purchase, so my impression is that most companies just offer 3-year warranties to simplify the process. The ASRock is 500SEK more expensive, but that's a price I'll gladly pay for usable front USB-C.

Yep. That's the one. I'd expect Viper Steel 4400CL19 binning level or better for the FlareX. As long as you don't mind the tackier heatspreader (compared to Trident).

Unless something's changed, the Ballistix Sport are the "old" kits with "old" Rev.E. Probably dual rank, but Rev.E is more of a pain than Rev.B. Nice low profile heatspreader but the performance is a bit of a unknown. Think like, Kaby Lake era, like my 4Gb E-die Trident Z. If the prices are similar, no question the B-die is the better buy than older Rev.E, hands down.

I actually think the ASRock PG is the best looking B550 ITX board. The location of the clear CMOS header, lack of BIOS flashback and the uncharacteristic (uncharacteristic for ASRock) lack of CLR CMOS button on the rear I/O gave me a bit of pause. In the end, the board was $50 more than the Aorus so the decision was a no-brainer

 

[Valantar]

Yep. That's the one. I'd expect Viper Steel 4400CL19 binning level or better for the FlareX. As long as you don't mind the tackier heatspreader (compared to Trident).

Unless something's changed, the Ballistix Sport are the "old" kits with "old" Rev.E. Probably dual rank, but Rev.E is more of a pain than Rev.B. Nice low profile heatspreader but the performance is a bit of a unknown. Think like, Kaby Lake era, like my 4Gb E-die Trident Z.

I actually think the ASRock PG is the best looking B550 ITX board. The location of the clear CMOS header, lack of BIOS flashback and the uncharacteristic (uncharacteristic for ASRock) lack of CLR CMOS button on the rear I/O gave me a bit of pause. In the end, the board was $50 more than the Aorus so the decision was a no-brainer

Oh, right, is this the board with the CLR_CMOS header just behind the rear I/O, beneath the VRM heatsink? Yeah, that's pretty damn stupid - they must have designed it for a button on the rear I/O, but then at some point scrapped that, I guess? I'll be running this open on my desk until I get a Meshlicious (I'm guessing May at the earliest) so it's not much of an issue for me, though I might just add a button for the CLR_CMOS myself. I should have both an old power/reset button harness and a 19mm momentary vandal switch lying around, plus the necessary Dupont style crimp terminals, so I'll figure something out.

As for the price, I would really have liked to go for the Aorus - IMO it's the best B550 ITX board when considering all factors - but given that this is a long-term purchase it just feels shortsighted to not have proper front I/O - especially when my intended case has front USB-C.

I'll probably go for the FlareX then - the Ballistix Sport LTs are definitely old, as the store has a single 32GB kit in stock, and nearly every Sport LT kit has disappeared since I bought the one I have in the 4650G build. There used to be heaps in different speeds and sizes, now there are three (two 16GB 3000c15 kits, plus this 32GB 3000 c15), and only the 32GB is in stock. I guess I might have gotten lucky with the kit in the HTPC, given how easily it scaled up to 3800. I completely agree that the FlareX heatspreader is a bit ... tacky, but don't think I can bring myself to pay 800 SEK more for TridentZ B-die just for the nicer heatspreader ... though now I'm considering it. Damn it!

 

[tabascosauz]

Oh, right, is this the board with the CLR_CMOS header just behind the rear I/O, beneath the VRM heatsink? Yeah, that's pretty damn stupid - they must have designed it for a button on the rear I/O, but then at some point scrapped that, I guess? I'll be running this open on my desk until I get a Meshlicious (I'm guessing May at the earliest) so it's not much of an issue for me, though I might just add a button for the CLR_CMOS myself. I should have both an old power/reset button harness and a 19mm momentary vandal switch lying around, plus the necessary Dupont style crimp terminals, so I'll figure something out.

As for the price, I would really have liked to go for the Aorus - IMO it's the best B550 ITX board when considering all factors - but given that this is a long-term purchase it just feels shortsighted to not have proper front I/O - especially when my intended case has front USB-C.

I'll probably go for the FlareX then - the Ballistix Sport LTs are definitely old, as the store has a single 32GB kit in stock, and nearly every Sport LT kit has disappeared since I bought the one I have in the 4650G build. There used to be heaps in different speeds and sizes, now there are three (two 16GB 3000c15 kits, plus this 32GB 3000 c15), and only the 32GB is in stock. I guess I might have gotten lucky with the kit in the HTPC, given how easily it scaled up to 3800. I completely agree that the FlareX heatspreader is a bit ... tacky, but don't think I can bring myself to pay 800 SEK more for TridentZ B-die just for the nicer heatspreader ... though now I'm considering it. Damn it!

Oh no, that's the MSI board. MSI has a hilarious relationship with the CMOS header on most its boards and the B550 ITX is no exception. They later fixed it by putting a little hole in the I/O shield to expose the pins, arguably even more convenient than other boards. Instantly the MSI board went from worst B550 to a seriously functional contender.

The ASRock PG board has the header in the lower right in a place that will probably be fully covered by the GPU. Don't know if you'll have space to wire a vandal switch in there. Ironically the fixed MSI board might be better lol

Depending on the case you might be able to squeeze a screwdriver in there without taking out the GPU first

 

[Valantar]

Oh no, that's the MSI board. MSI has a hilarious relationship with the CMOS header on most its boards and the B550 ITX is no exception. They later fixed it by putting a little hole in the I/O shield to expose the pins, arguably even more convenient than other boards. Instantly the MSI board went from worst B550 to a seriously functional contender.

The ASRock PG board has the header in the lower right in a place that will probably be fully covered by the GPU. Don't know if you'll have space to wire a vandal switch in there. Ironically the fixed MSI board might be better lol

Depending on the case you might be able to squeeze a screwdriver in there without taking out the GPU first

Ah, right. The Meshlicious has the GPU on a riser, so actually that ought to be quite accessible Really poor placement for everyone else though!

I went ahead and ordered the FlareX kit - I did seriously consider that TridentZ Neo 300c14 I linked above for a bit now, but given that I'll be turning off the RGB and that side of the case will be facing a wall, paying that much more just for looks seems a bit silly