NVIDIA RTX owners only - your opinion on DLSS 2.0 Image quality

[robot zombie]

Im really underselling how good it can look. I didnt wanna say too much... Im collecting screenshots. But I was really awestruck. Id stop, look around, and just chuckle at how amazing it looked. The sights are really something with all of the RTX enabled.

I kinda thought Id check it out... see how it really looks and runs. Now, I feel like I have to play it through. Far and away the best experience Ive had with the game. It looks great and runs smooth. Combat never looked or felt so good. Stoked to get home and play.

 

[toilet pepper]

I just tried Metro EE and yesterday and DAYUMN it looks good and runs smooth. I wish Cyberpunk runs as good as this. Those are the 2 games that I've seen where my 3080 could stretch my legs.

 

[wolf]

I just tried Metro EE and yesterday and DAYUMN it looks good and runs smooth.

What monitor/res are you running? was it you too that have an LG CX OLED? keen to hear what DLSS setting you use if you game on a 4k panel.

For my 3440x1440 output resolution, the "Quality" setting has almost the exact same total input pixel count as "Performance" does for a 4k output (2280x960 = 2.19MP, 1920x1080 = 2.07MP), so I would imagine this is why DF found that performance already looked so damn good.

 

[toilet pepper]

What monitor/res are you running? was it you too that have an LG CX OLED? keen to hear what DLSS setting you use if you game on a 4k panel.

For my 3440x1440 output resolution, the "Quality" setting has almost the exact same total input pixel count as "Performance" does for a 4k output (2280x960 = 2.19MP, 1920x1080 = 2.07MP), so I would imagine this is why DF found that performance already looked so damn good.

I'm at 3440x1440 @100hz as well, bud. I havent checked if my eyes can tell the difference between the DLSS settings though.

 

[wolf]

I'm at 3440x1440 @100hz as well, bud. I havent checked if my eyes can tell the difference between the DLSS settings though.

Cheers, I've found each setting below Quality to very subtly become softer, yet they still manage to excellently produce fine detail. My only issue with Ultra performance mode really was that shadows become quite noisy because of the RT sample count at that low an input resolution. I also looked for the weapon ghosting as mentioned in this thread and I could see it, but had to look for it, my eyes aren't usually focused on the weapon itself.

 

[robot zombie]

Alright, some screenshots from Control. RTX High (all effects) with medium settings. Can't remember which are 540p and which are 720p But it all scales up to 1080p. If these end up causing problems for some people, let me know and I'll see what I can do. I wanted to preserve as much information as possible and these jpeg's are proving really problematic at holding onto the details on dark images. I still wind up losing color information. These are full-size, as well. Zoom in to see the full detail. Just be wary that some areas will be fuzzy/splotchy due to jpeg compression and then whatever your browser does to the colors. A lot of the gradients are visibly squished by that.

Spoiler

There is a definite smoothing effect that can be seen here. The background looks very natural to me -- painterly, almost. This is a good concession... closer to what I wish AA would actually do. There are no jaggies here, and yet it's not exactly blurry. Soft, yet defined. Very easy to look at. It may not be "crisp," but all of those edges are clean and it is just really striking to me. Something about this quality has a way of pulling back another layer of sheen. The details that count are emphasized, in a way. The image ends up looking more distilled. There's something more 'sophisticated' about it. If you look at the top of the door frame in the first one, or the sign in the second, you'll see those comb-shaped artifacts that are essentially the hallmark of DLSS. What's striking is how minor these are. Almost nothing in the image brings them out. In practice you only see a slight jitter instead of a full jaggy. These are the 'jitters' I was describing before.

Having a hard time on those bars. Notice how clean all of the other most visible edges are. It's only as they drop almost completely into the shadows that they begin to soften. The soft background can be seen past the bars, as well. It's the best treatment a LOD could ask for, almost mimicking a few of the things that come into play with optics out at those distances. There's a hazy, diffraction effect... not quite a fog or gaussian blur. Again, a tactically-elected simplification of the information - fewer distracting bits and more identifying cues.

Notice the comb-shaped distortion on some of the fine edges. A couple of low-contrast edges on the concrete are smudgy, though it's not so apparent because of the low contrast. Meanwhile the dark edges of the concrete contrasting against the harder light coming down are perfect. And yes, that gold-tone trim and those card slots do jitter a little bit.

Just classic shots, fairly sharp and clean all the way back. Full magic of RT effects here. Both of these have some very slight walking edges. I didn't even see them moving the camera around. Can you spot them? These are worth pointing out, as these are the very low-contrast gray transition edges that the RT diffuse light and contact shadows muddle up in obvious, gritty ways. Now instead of grit, there's a much subtler detail loss that's way tougher to spot, just warming up the image a little. I'm looking right at it as I type this. I wonder if anyone else sees it. You might notice it in a broader sense, in the way the light plays off of the materials.

It's subtle, but as you play you really see how much smoother the images are. You can also start to see where it struggles to get far off details accurately. It tends to be minor, unless we're talking about grates, which I'm not convinced the engine can do well enough to ever hold together at any distance or angle. DLSS 2.0 has the most trouble with fine lines at steep angles in this game. Those will begin to 'march' as the camera moves. Sometimes you will see minor comb artifacts. But all in all it just looks more visceral... less... video-gamey. Listen... RTX is still pretty inaccurate right now and the effects have artifacts... this etch and harshness that makes things look exaggerated. I think it so happens that DLSS 2.0 gently goes in and destroys only that crud... like laser surgery. The only major consistent downside I am seeing is color distortion and even slight banding. But it's so minor... the compression on these screenshots exaggerates it.

Screenshots really can't do it justice. It's hard to explain the experience. There's a fluidity to everything, like everything in the image just congeals. It's kind of spooky.

Spoiler: few more

Am I crazy for thinking there's some kind of magic here? If you really look on a still image, you can definitely see the distortion. But it stays in non-critical areas and you don't have the luxury of acquiring it in-game because it is temporal. Also worth noting, turning on all of the RT effects like this causes considerable detail loss even without DLSS... just piling on inaccuracies. I used to avoid the diffuse light (global illumination?) for that very reason... a tendency to etch out surfaces and transitions and at times, introduce horrible shimmer. Those losses appear significantly reduced, everything punches through the RT better and I don't experience that distracting harshness.

I'll have to try comparing in areas where the detail loss with all of the RT is heaviest. But the best way I can describe DLSS 2.0 in this game is that it 'completes' its RTX suite. The effects look better with it on -- far less dirty. The whole game was designed to have RTX effects play off of almost every material in a variety of ways. It's a part of the entire visual design concept with the base stuff being traditional stand-ins. And the architecture in this game is high art -- the things they do with the presentation of materials are amazing. But it was always a bit held back by the huge performance hit and the significant image quality loss introduced by heavy RT processing. Even if you could run it without DLSS, you had to make that call as to whether you wanted a crisp, but plainer image or a noisy/splotchy, but much more dramatic and impactful image.

Now, I feel like if you have an RT card... this is the way to run it. DLSS on with as many RT effects as possible. Can probably turn down regular settings. They'll make less of a visual difference at such a low render resolution. And I mean... almost any RTX card can run it. My 2060 will do it all in 1080p at a steady 80+ fps. The majority of compatible cards are better. I run DLSS 2.0 at the middle resolution (600-odd pixels,) turn everything down to medium except for texture quality (keep on high) and texture filtering (leave on low,) turn SSAO on, turn grain/motion-blur off, and turn on all of the RT effects.

I'm really appreciating what a work of art Control is now. It's really incredible, what they managed to do with these environments. When you get the RT going in these places that were built to feature it and cut out the distractions with the image quality, it just beams into your head how stunning these combinations of colors, materials, and mischievous geometry really are. I feel like I'm finally seeing it as its creators wanted it to be seen. A bit late, but it really is something to experience for yourself! My eyes are popping out of my head half of the time, just trying to take it all in.

 

[las]

You are feeling more responsive with the Asus PG279Q because you are getting higher FPS at 1440p than 4K, once you are getting the same FPS at 4K as you do on 1440p, the responsiveness will be the same (or better on the LG OLED).

I have been playing PUBG on my LG CX 48in and the advantages of having a massive and responsive screen are undeniable. Before I had the LG 34GN850-B screen which is 3440x1440 160hz and the LG CX is just superior in every way. And yes I play PUBG with low settings, which give me the same FPS at 4K/1440p because of CPU bottleneck.



If anyone think DLSS is the same as upscaling, show them this

A massive screen is not what you want for shooters, pretty much all pro's go as small as possible to keep focus high. If a huge TV was better, they would be using that. I perform way better on my 27 inch in shooters, it's not even close. Using a big screen for fast paced shooters feels clunky and you have to turn your head at times, thats NOT OPTIMAL at all. For casual gaming it's fine, which is what I use my OLED for (single player, 3rd person and simulators mostly).

Besides 120 Hz is nothing these days, most serious players use 240-360 Hz now, especially in shooters.

Using an OLED for shooters with HUD, for hours and hours will result in burn-in if you don't limit brightness / OLED LIGHT. When you do this, it is alot less suited for daytime usage and will suck in shooters as a result. Enemies can hide in dark spots with ease, you won't see them.

I don't have burn-in on my C9, even after 1000+ hours of gaming, because i vary games and content and uses screensaver when it's hooked up to my PC. When you are using an OLED with a PC, you need to take precautions or you will see burn-in. If you play the same game for hours and hours every day, I'm pretty sure you will see burn in pretty fast.

Burnin is STILL a problem if you don't change up your content. It's better on 2018+ panels (mostly because of software tho and ABL / Auto Brightness Limiter)
ABL can be VERY distracting when used with a PC tho.

I love OLED but it's not a perfect tech and never will be. When MicroLED is ready for the masses, OLED is going to die out pretty quickly, unless production cost has been lowered ALOT by then.
OLED probably have 5-10 more good years before MLED takes over.

 

[wolf]

Alright, some screenshots from Control.

Man those look fantastic, and all running well on basically the slowest RTX card.

Makes me want to go back to Control again for another playthrough, will have to wait till Metro is finished!

 

[wolf]

DLSS 2.1 coming to No Mans Sky

 

[dogwitch]

DLSS 2.1 coming to No Mans Sky

and as people have play it. missing trees etc.

 

[wolf]

and as people have play it. missing trees etc.

Yeah it's another example where the developer and implementation do not account for needing to change the LOD bias which totally fixes the issue due to rendering at lower internal res. Quick fix by the user but it should be baked into the DLSS setting, hopefully, it gets addressed.

Also Metro Exodus EE is patched and fixes HDR+DLSS

 

[dogwitch]

Yeah it's another example where the developer and implementation do not account for needing to change the LOD bias which totally fixes the issue due to rendering at lower internal res. Quick fix by the user but it should be baked into the DLSS setting, hopefully, it gets addressed.

Also Metro Exodus EE is patched and fixes HDR+DLSS

its a shame thru. the games use awful hdr.... but at the same time... you will need 15k total for calibrating for tv.. half that on top of a 4k cost monitor that follow the hdr standard.

 

[looniam]

got a 3060 and a cheap 4k tv and for my perspective is cyberpunk is a mess but metro EE is a showcase.i bought the tv to watch 4k videos but most games )(dlss or not) are are barley playabe (IMO) ~35 fps is rather surprising. -esp considering the past generations' . . not a big fan of control's artwork . .

totally looking to grab a 3070ti; i expect that to get 4k/60fps in all games (mostly) dlss or not . .

 

[dogwitch]

got a 3060 and a cheap 4k tv and for my perspective is cyberpunk is a mess but metro EE is a showcase.i bought the tv to watch 4k videos but most games )(dlss or not) are are barley playabe (IMO) ~35 fps is rather surprising. -esp considering the past generations' . . not a big fan of control's artwork . .

totally looking to grab a 3070ti; i expect that to get 4k/60fps in all games (mostly) dlss or not . .

going to need a 80 or higher.

 

[Mussels]

got a 3060 and a cheap 4k tv and for my perspective is cyberpunk is a mess but metro EE is a showcase.i bought the tv to watch 4k videos but most games )(dlss or not) are are barley playabe (IMO) ~35 fps is rather surprising. -esp considering the past generations' . . not a big fan of control's artwork . .

totally looking to grab a 3070ti; i expect that to get 4k/60fps in all games (mostly) dlss or not . .

not with RTX on and ultra settings, it wont

Keep in mind that a 3090 is pretty much required if you want 4K60 without compromising (DLSS counts there, too) - and even they cant do RTX on and maintain that

 

[wolf]

A 3060 really isn't a great match for 4k resolution above about 30fps, at least not in new and very demanding titles, you will probably find most sort of pre-2017 games you can crank up too.

If you really want a great experience on that TV I'd also say a 3080 or higher should be at least where you start, and even then keep expectations in check.

 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

I do wonder if one day this technolagy can be used on lower end cards
say the future equivalent of a gt1030 that performs like a 1060
cause if the 1060 has dlss it would legit be amazing

 

[looniam]

not with RTX on and ultra settings, it wont

Keep in mind that a 3090 is pretty much required if you want 4K60 without compromising (DLSS counts there, too) - and even they cant do RTX on and maintain that

yeah it does.

look i'm not exaggerating, the little guy is very surprising.

 

[Mussels]

yeah it does.

look i'm not exaggerating, the little guy is very surprising.
View attachment 200988

that... backs up what i said? average is still below 60

 

[wolf]

DLSS Ultra performance might get you there... what DLSS setting was used for those ~50's FPS runs?

50+ could be OK if the TV has HDMI 2.1 and variable refresh (gsync/freesync)

 

[looniam]

that... backs up what i said? average is still below 60 fps

i never said it fall below the magically 60fps

DLSS Ultra performance might get you there... what DLSS setting was used for those ~50's FPS runs?

uber or utra . .it looks better in meto than cyber cupunk, imo.

E: let;'s be clear here; i'm not suggesting a 3060 is a 4K card, just its surprising

 

[nguyen]

Just tried out Outriders today and the DLSS implementation in this game is extreme good, game look very sharp that I don't need to use the sharpen filter and there is no visible DLSS artifact anywhere to be seen.
Seems like games made with Unreal Engine have motion vector tied into everything that DLSS just work outta the box, which is just awesome.

Left is Native 4K and Right is 4K DLSS Balanced, the character's hair look even better on the DLSS with higher details and better anti-aliasing

 

[dogwitch]

Just tried out Outriders today and the DLSS implementation in this game is extreme good, game look very sharp that I don't need to use the sharpen filter and there is no visible DLSS artifact anywhere to be seen.
Seems like games made with Unreal Engine have motion vector tied into everything that DLSS just work outta the box, which is just awesome.

View attachment 200991

Left is Native 4K and Right is 4K DLSS Balanced, the character's hair look even better on the DLSS with higher details and better anti-aliasing

that sub 2k assets right there on the left. i can even tell in pic.

 

[nguyen]

that sub 2k assets right there on the left. i can even tell in pic.

Really? well I can't upload full size 4K image because it exceed TPU size limit (12MB for a single image)
here is half pic of the Native 4K image

Converting to lossy JPEG would have blurred out the image.

 

[wolf]

Left is Native 4K and Right is 4K DLSS Balanced, the character's hair look even better on the DLSS with higher details and better anti-aliasing

ANother very strong showing for DLSS, perhaps the best yet even? Really nice for the balanced setting too actually.