cutting memory heatspreaders or remove?

[80251]

I have the G-skill F4-4266C17D-32GVKB 2x16GiB kit ripjaws V. It's 42mm in height. I'd like to reduce this height so I could either:
a. push the front shrouded 120x38mm fan down further on my Noctua NH-D15s so more airflow is going over the finstack closer to the heat source
b. attach a more powerful 127x50mm fan with shrouds to the front of the finstack

I had some old G-skill ripjaws DDR3 and had a similar heatspreader problem that I solved by using a dremel and slowly and carefully cutting off the tops of the heatspreader so that the front fan could fit on my Phanteks ph-tc14pe would fit, but the heatspreader on these ripjaws V are different. How difficult is it to remove the heatspreader and is it a good idea to even do so? I thought some heatspreaders in the past were clipped on, but that doesn't look like the case with these Ripjaws V. I don't really want to cut the heatspreader either because then I'll lose any and all warranty I'm sure.

 

[evernessince]

That's a 1.50v kit. Reducing the heatsink's effectiveness is not a good ideal. Removing it altogether is asking for trouble.

I have a similar cooler and the same RAM heatsink / RAM height. The fan sits a bit high and it cools all the same. If you need every last bit of thermal performance you'd be better served by getting a high end AIO then hacking up your RAM.

 

[80251]

Evernessince what about say removing the heatspreader and using thermal epoxy to directly attach Cu heatsinks to each individual BGA RAM module? I am putting a lot more voltage through my old G-skill Ripjaws DDR3 (1.611V) with the cut up heatspreaders so I figured DDR4 at 1.5V shouldn't be a problem.

 

[bonehead123]

Hummm... Dremel... my favorite word when it comes to modding just about anything & everything

Wouldn't it just be easier to return them (or at least sell them) & buy some shorter ones ?

Anyways, I don't know exactly how the sinks are attached or held onto these particular dimms, but surely they are either held on by the spring action of the metal, which should allow their careful removal using a very thin, flat-bladed, plastic putty knife (or a small, thin screwdriver), or possibly by some kind on non-conductive adhesive, which would be slightly more difficult although not impossible to break free with a bit more patience and determination

Yes, either way would most likely void you warranty, but that's a choice you will have to make if you wanna use them in the manner that you describe.

Personally, I would just get a taller cooler with raised pipes, or shorter dimms..

Good luck either way

 

[evernessince]

Evernessince what about say removing the heatspreader and using thermal epoxy to directly attach Cu heatsinks to each individual BGA RAM module? I am putting a lot more voltage through my old G-skill Ripjaws DDR3 (1.611V) with the cut up heatspreaders so I figured DDR4 at 1.5V shouldn't be a problem.

That would keep temps under control but it also creates the possibility that they fall off and short your motherboard. I've seen this happen to people who were modding their graphics card. Stock card heatsinks come screwed in for a reason, to guarantee nothing will fall off. Even if the initial application is very solid repeated thermal cycles will weaken the Epoxy. Mind you at that point you've essentially surrendered your warranty and the resale value of those stick (which are going for around $309 right now). The heatspreader installed on RAM from the manufacturer is designed to avoid this issue.

Without the heatsink, at 1.50v you'd probably hit 60 - 70c depending on ambient, which is above where you want to be ideally. RAM can achieve best performance 50c and below. Whether this means your sticks will sometimes show instability is anyone's guess. It really depends on silicon lottery and the max temp they are reaching.

 

[80251]

Thanks for all the replies evernessince, this idea has been shelved....

 

[tabascosauz]

Have any of you actually run B-die 1.5V daily or naked B-die before espousing the theory that it'll reach 70C and cause a second Chernobyl? That's not how any of this works...

If you don't have good airflow in the form of a fan directly on the DIMMs, an exhaust fan in close proximity, and/or a strong enough intake in the front, thermals are going to be crap with heatspreader or no heatspreader. Tower coolers by themselves do literally nothing for DIMM temps.

@80251 it should be the same idea with most DIMMs on the market, heat it up with a hairdryer or heat gun until you can gently take it apart. Always err on the side of caution, more heat is always better than not enough and risk removing BGA packages. And take your time. G.skill heatspreaders are solid and stuck on there tight. I'd look up a specific guide for Ripjaws to make sure there are no surprises, but principles are the same.

But yes, if you care about your warranty, removing is a no-go. It's an expensive kit, especially if you don't really do a lot of tweaking. And no, don't cut your heatspreaders.

As for clipped on heatspreaders, that was a DDR2/DDR3 thing.

 

[evernessince]

Have any of you actually run B-die 1.5V daily or naked B-die before espousing the theory that it'll reach 70C and cause a second Chernobyl? That's not how any of this works...

If you don't have good airflow in the form of a fan directly on the DIMMs, an exhaust fan in close proximity, and/or a strong enough intake in the front, thermals are going to be crap with heatspreader or no heatspreader. Tower coolers by themselves do literally nothing for DIMM temps.

Now you are just being hyperbolic and rude. No one said what your strawman argument implies.

The linked video doesn't pertain to anything you were saying either. They remove a heatspreader from RAM using LN2 to prevent condensation build-up when CPU overclocking using LN2.

RAM heatsinks by themselves only provide approximately a 3c temp reduction at stock (with variance depending on the sink design) and that increases as the thermal load increases (high voltage). The other benefit is that they are better able to benefit from airflow as the heatsink increases the surface area.

For high voltage RAM, this certainly isn't nothing as you imply and I would take every reduction I could get to ensure stability.

 

[sneekypeet]

As a guy who tests RAM, that 70C figure is way off the mark.

The heat idea is a good one, either the hair dryer, or a longer run of RAM stress testing will also do the trick.

I also have to peel quite a few heat spreaders to get IC information when Thaiphoon Burner does not read the complete part number. My rule of thumb for removal is to use your fingernails only. They are soft enough not to damage anything, and any more prying than what they offer is a tad over the top IMHO.

I say peel 'em, run some benches and see how they react. If you are careful when removing the spreaders, and put them in a bag when removed (to keep debris off the tape) they will go back on if needed.

 

[tabascosauz]

Now you are just being hyperbolic and rude.

Perhaps I could say the same of your hyperbolic 60-70C claims?

B-die destabilizes at 50C, if you had some hands on time with any old set of B-die you'd know this, if 1.5V kicked them up to 60-70 then no one would bench B-die ever without LN2. Is that nice enough for you?

Point is, airflow is what actually matters, and a D15 will not provide that for RAM except *maybe* on a flat testbench or an inverted layout. Heatspreader or not, that would be the main concern with a DR kit at 1.5V.

 

[evernessince]

Perhaps I could say the same of your hyperbolic 60-70C claims?

You could say but you couldn't prove it. Accounting for all potential variables isn't hyperbolic, it's being safe.

B-die destabilizes at 50C, if you had some hands on time with any old set of B-die you'd know this, if 1.5V kicked them up to 60-70 then no one would bench B-die ever without LN2. Is that nice enough for you?

To specify, that figure was without the heatsink and accounting for a range of potential ambient temperatures (among other factors). My bottom figure should have been lower though as it's possible to achieve if the system has proper airflow with a low ambient temp and components that aren't dumping a ton of hot air into the case. Buildzoid has demonstrated a DDR4 3200 kit at 1.4v reaching 55c with the spreader on in a controlled well cooled system.

Point is, airflow is what actually matters, and a D15 will not provide that for RAM except *maybe* on a flat testbench or an inverted layout. Heatspreader or not, that would be the main concern with a DR kit at 1.5V.

Both matter. Airflow matters more when you have a lot of other parts in the PC dumping hot air into the case.

As a guy who tests RAM, that 70C figure is way off the mark.

That's the top of the 60-70 figure I gave and is with the spreader off including a range of potential ambient temps and other factors including with this specific high end kit.

The heat idea is a good one, either the hair dryer, or a longer run of RAM stress testing will also do the trick.

Hair dryer or RAM stress testing will mostly be effective for older RAM kits that have gone through many thermal cycles. Newer kits will be well stuck as GamersNexus demonstrated in the linked video above. They had to use LN2 after going through and thinking out the list of potential options.

I also have to peel quite a few heat spreaders to get IC information when Thaiphoon Burner does not read the complete part number. My rule of thumb for removal is to use your fingernails only. They are soft enough not to damage anything, and any more prying than what they offer is a tad over the top IMHO.

I say peel 'em, run some benches and see how they react. If you are careful when removing the spreaders, and put them in a bag when removed (to keep debris off the tape) they will go back on if needed.

This is a good tip, best to be careful when removing them. Specifically I'd recommend benches that will put the system at full load. GPU and CPU temps will have an influence on RAM temps.

 

[tabascosauz]

You could say but you couldn't prove it. Accounting for all potential variables isn't hyperbolic, it's being safe.

To specify, that figure was without the heatsink and accounting for a range of potential ambient temperatures. I specified the first part in the original comment.

Both matter. Airflow matters more when you have a lot of other parts in the PC dumping hot air into the case.

That's the top of the 60-70 figure I gave and is with the spreader off including a range of potential ambient temps and other factors including with this specific high end kit.

I've run my 4133CL19 Vipers at 1.5V, naked, for half a year in a 2DIMM board......I run my 4400CL19 Vipers at 1.5V with their heatspreaders in a 2DIMM board......1.5V B-die isn't a unicorn, it's what all B-die (that isn't on a Corsair PCB) should ultimately aim for, as long as not hitting 50C.

60-70C straight up makes zero sense. Hynix might still hold its own at 60, Micron probably destabilizes, and B-die would be actually unusable beyond 60. It's not a matter of accounting for variables, that's just not how things work - I'm not even trying to be condescending. 4 x SR B-die is where it starts to get dicey at 1.5V and needs a fan to stay under 50C. 4 x DR B-die is incredibly hard to run 1.5V. OP only has 2 x DR sticks.

With even mundane case airflow it shouldn't nearly be as dire as you've portrayed. DR do put out a bit more heat than SR, but there's only 2 sticks and they're presumably spread out in a 4DIMM board. Heatspreader or no heatspreader should make little difference.

 

[sneekypeet]

Hair dryer or RAM stress testing will mostly be effective for older RAM kits that have gone through many thermal cycles. Newer kits will be well stuck as GamersNexus demonstrated in the linked video above. They had to use LN2 after going through and thinking out the list of potential options.

I do this all the time....GN is not the end all be all for info
No need for LN2 either, a freezer will do the same thing they accomplished.

 

[maxfly]

I wouldn't mess with them 80251 if youve never removed memory heatsinks before. Even if you do everything just right the thermal tape they use now cools off so fast and readheres so quickly and is so friggin strong its just way to easy to pull a bga off. Sell those badboys and go with some low profile modules if you need that last little bit to cool your cpu. It really isnt worth it to experiment with an expensive set.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

That's a 1.50v kit. Reducing the heatsink's effectiveness is not a good ideal. Removing it altogether is asking for trouble.

I have a similar cooler and the same RAM heatsink / RAM height. The fan sits a bit high and it cools all the same. If you need every last bit of thermal performance you'd be better served by getting a high end AIO then hacking up your RAM.

Short of completely removing it, there will not be much difference at all. I've run all manner of these b-die kits, single rank and dual rank, and the limiting factor temperature wise always ends up being airflow, no matter how big or small the heatsink is.

Have any of you actually run B-die 1.5V daily... [shortened to avoid unnecessary wall of text]

This

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Nope
Low cl and high frequencies looks like it's just what needs to happen
If you don't like it use lower frequencies I've seen very little difference past 4000 at cl16 with relatively low dimm voltage at 1.42v

 

[FreedomEclipse]

That would keep temps under control but it also creates the possibility that they fall off and short your motherboard. I've seen this happen to people who were modding their graphics card. Stock card heatsinks come screwed in for a reason, to guarantee nothing will fall off. Even if the initial application is very solid repeated thermal cycles will weaken the Epoxy. Mind you at that point you've essentially surrendered your warranty and the resale value of those stick (which are going for around $309 right now). The heatspreader installed on RAM from the manufacturer is designed to avoid this issue.

Without the heatsink, at 1.50v you'd probably hit 60 - 70c depending on ambient, which is above where you want to be ideally. RAM can achieve best performance 50c and below. Whether this means your sticks will sometimes show instability is anyone's guess. It really depends on silicon lottery and the max temp they are reaching.

I have never heard of this happening with thermal epoxy. I have glued many memory and VRM heatsinks on using thermal epoxy (Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive/Arctic Alumina) and i have never had any of them fall off through out my years or even heard of it falling off anyone elses.

The only time where ive heard of it falling off and have experienced the same is when they (and I) have used thermal adhesive tape rather than epoxy. Because of the high temperatures of VRMs and GDDR melts the glue and that in turn weakens the bond so the heatsinks fall off. epoxy isnt the same because it turn into a hard resin/plastic and doesnt expand or shrink with thermal cycles. You can heat the heatsinks up using a heat gun, try to remove them and you will likely rip the memory IC or VRM right out of the graphics card before the epoxy is anywhere near about to give way - Epoxy creates a permanent bond and there is no way to remove the heatsink unless you use power tools to cut or grind it off.

Stock heatsinks are come screwed down because its easier for the manufacturer to diagnose/repair/refurb if faulty. Heatsinks on the memory and VRMs are often screwed on because it needs the mounting pressure to keep thermal pads which arent adhesive in place for good contact between mating surfaces and these thicker thermal pads are better than the thin thermal adhesive stickers used to attach memory heatsinks on RAM and small chiplet/ICs when dealing with temperatures anywhere above 30'c. 30'c is when thermal adhesive (glue) starts to melt.

 

[evernessince]

I have never heard of this happening with thermal epoxy. I have glued many memory and VRM heatsinks on using thermal epoxy (Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive/Arctic Alumina) and i have never had any of them fall off through out my years or even heard of it falling off anyone elses.

The only time where ive heard of it falling off and have experienced the same is when they (and I) have used thermal adhesive tape rather than epoxy. Because of the high temperatures of VRMs and GDDR melts the glue and that in turn weakens the bond so the heatsinks fall off. epoxy isnt the same because it turn into a hard resin/plastic and doesnt expand or shrink with thermal cycles. You can heat the heatsinks up using a heat gun, try to remove them and you will likely rip the memory IC or VRM right out of the graphics card before the epoxy is anywhere near about to give way - Epoxy creates a permanent bond and there is no way to remove the heatsink unless you use power tools to cut or grind it off.

There were issues for people installing Vega 64 / 56 mods with the Morpheus 2 where the heat sink would fall off. I'm pretty sure that was Thermal glue (although not permanent).

Stock heatsinks are come screwed down because its easier for the manufacturer to diagnose/repair/refurb if faulty. Heatsinks on the memory and VRMs are often screwed on because it needs the mounting pressure to keep thermal pads which arent adhesive in place for good contact between mating surfaces and these thicker thermal pads are better than the thin thermal adhesive stickers used to attach memory heatsinks on RAM and small chiplet/ICs when dealing with temperatures anywhere above 30'c. 30'c is when thermal adhesive (glue) starts to melt.

Screws are just more reliable. Yes thermal pad need mounting pressure but the primary reason is for reliability.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

There were issues for people installing Vega 64 / 56 mods with the Morpheus 2 where the heat sink would fall off. I'm pretty sure that was Thermal glue (although not permanent).



Screws are just more reliable. Yes thermal pad need mounting pressure but the primary reason is for reliability.

Its adhesive tape not epoxy.... If it is epoxy it would be listed in the installation guide here the kit comes supplied with multiple strips of adhesive tape.