High pitched noise coming out of the speakers when moving the mouse

[Octopuss]

This is some seriously weird shit I noticed this several days ago. Barely noticeable high pitched noise coming from the speakers when I move the mouse. I heard about this in past, it's supposedly something to do with electrical interference or something.
I believe everything is properly grounded (why/how shouldn't it?), and I have standalone soundcard connected to an amplifier.

When I turn the amp volume all the way to the max, I get permanent cracking noise plus the buzzing when I move the mouse. It also changes when there's load on the CPU I believe.

The only time the noise is gone is about two seconds after powering the PC up. It does that even in the BIOS, so it's unrelated to the OS.

I am not entirely sure, but I THINK it might have started after recent BIOS update with the USB fixes for Zen. That's just a vague impression, because I am not sure.

Any ideas? This is frustrating as hell.

 

[Ferrum Master]

There is no fix. It is the mouse doing interrupts and ramping up CPU VRM.

It is a poor motherboard design. There is no cure for it un less you force everything run on constant maximum without any power saving feature.

Fastest cure is to galvanically isolate the amplifier from the PC and most easy option is to use optical - SPDIF. There are galvanically isolated USB options and feed the DAC and then the amplifier.

Other than that... changing motherboard.

 

[Octopuss]

Well no, like I said, when I ramp up the amp volume to 100% there is constant cracking noise even when I'm not moving the mouse, it's an "additional" noise to the mouse thing I discovered only by going up with volume. It's weird.

 

[AleXXX666]

This is some seriously weird shit I noticed this several days ago. Barely noticeable high pitched noise coming from the speakers when I move the mouse. I heard about this in past, it's supposedly something to do with electrical interference or something.
I believe everything is properly grounded (why/how shouldn't it?), and I have standalone soundcard connected to an amplifier.

When I turn the amp volume all the way to the max, I get permanent cracking noise plus the buzzing when I move the mouse. It also changes when there's load on the CPU I believe.

The only time the noise is gone is about two seconds after powering the PC up. It does that even in the BIOS, so it's unrelated to the OS.

I am not entirely sure, but I THINK it might have started after recent BIOS update with the USB fixes for Zen. That's just a vague impression, because I am not sure.

Any ideas? This is frustrating as hell.

as said above, analog vs digital outputs etc. etc.
but, not anyone wanna mess with some super ultra audioplhile "quality" speakers, most normal people just get PC speakers depending on comfortable sound and/or budget for them and get things DONE.
I don't use "additional" sound cards, as they are waste of money for me for their price; i'll get some extra ssd or add up for better cooling solution or other stuff. but, this sh*t are usually found on cheapo no-name speakers. get Logitech or Creative, and at least 2:1 mid-priced solution, for example, don't know about all that "Audiotechnica", "Harman Cardon", "Bose" etc., if they make normal PC speakers with 3.5mm plug so most of users could use them without a mess.

 

[Octopuss]

Well this setup I have is everything but cheap, but unfortunately the amp doesn't have digital input.
What puzzles me is I am half sure the noise wasn't there before.

I googled up a suggestion to file away any paint on motherboard screws, which supposedly helps with grounding. Probably worth a try.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Well this setup I have is everything but cheap, but unfortunately the amp doesn't have digital input.
What puzzles me is I am half sure the noise wasn't there before.

I googled up a suggestion to file away any paint on motherboard screws, which supposedly helps with grounding. Probably worth a try.

There are results actually lifting the grounding. Splitting audio ground from the case ground. It is a complicated thing. Ensure your audio amp is grounded too, if you have ground at your flat. I have not for example as the house was build before WW1. And I went optical, as I don't need anything more than 2 channels and neither I have better recordings than 24/96. If you have ensure devices share the same power outlet. If the amplifier does not use 3 pin grounded cable, there must be screw where to attach it.

There are ground loops, you have to experiment. The noise can creep in from various paths, including motherboard screws, that could form a shorter path, than motherboard traces.

 

[Octopuss]

I'm in Europe, everything is grounded
I'll try different screws first.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I'm in Europe, everything is grounded
I'll try different screws first.

Prff... don't be so silly...

You can trust only if you have measured it. I've been in Prague enough times also. Older buildings are not rewired same as everywhere. You may have a grounded outlet by the looks, but isn't wired up. Seldom anyone even understands what ground is and what for it is needed.

 

[Bill_Bright]

There's no way to tell if it is a poor motherboard design or not. That's just a WAG and highly unlikely or it would effect many others using that same board. This is particularly evident if the sound only recently started.

It would not have anything to do with a BIOS update either.

You are right, this is due to interference - either excessive unwanted RF emissions from other nearby electronics, or insufficient shielding from such RF emissions.

First, make sure the mouse and audio cables and connectors are in good repair. No cracks in the insulation and no exposed wires. Make sure all connections are tight and secure. Has the mouse been mishandled or dropped? You might try it on another computer and another mouse on this computer.

Try to separate the mouse cable from the speaker cables with as much distance as much as possible. Do the same with "all" data cables - move them away as much as possible from all power cables. Move the mouse USB connection to a different USB port on the computer.

I'm in Europe, everything is grounded

Yeah, to believe that is being extremely naïve - and potentially dangerous. While it may be that everything is "supposed" to be grounded, never, as in NEVER EVER assume that it is. Such groundings must be established by a human. And humans make mistakes. Ground connections can be damaged or improperly connected from the start.

Test your outlets. Every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.

Note you want the grounds of all your computer components to be "at the same potential". To ensure this, it is important to power all the components (computer, monitor, speakers, etc.) from the same wall outlet. This is necessary since even two properly wired and grounded outlets in the same room will have a slightly different path to Earth ground, and thus a slightly different resistance to Earth ground. In some cases, this can cause interference. In more extreme cases, you might even feel a small electric tingle or shock if you touch two components powered by two different outlets at the same time. In very extreme cases, this could be dangerous to small children, pets, or people with heart pace makers.

If you must power from different outlets, run a grounding wire loop connecting each component together to establish a "common ground". Basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on on the metal chassis of each component case will establish that common ground. Just make sure the screw does not simply go into plastic.

 

[Auer]

Try switching you amp power to a different circuit than your computer.

Optical is a good suggestion, so is casting over wifi.

 

[Jose Jeswin]

Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........you can make a cable yourself and leave it permanently connected with you computer case...

Gamersnexus DIY

 

[Bill_Bright]

Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........

Ummm, that's a very bad idea. But first, that tutorial is [supposedly! ] to prevent ESDs - electro-static discharges. It is not for establishing a common ground between components to prevent EMI/RFI - which is what is needed here.

Second, what that would do is make a very effective (low resistance) path to Earth ground. That would NOT be good if the idea is to "prevent" ESD destruction because it is the source of the ESD that needs to be grounded - and with computers, that source is typically the user.

The best solution to prevent damage from ESD is to put you and your computer "at the same potential". This is "best" done simply by the user touching bare metal of the computer case's interior. This immediately establishes a "common" ground between the user and the computer, thus harmlessly discharging any static in the user to the computer's chassis, and if prevent further build up of static in the user's body.

If you establish a near 0Ω resistance path to Earth ground via that modified power cable, you risk the static in your body discharging right through an ESD sensitive device (such as your CPU, GPU or memory modules), torching a Grand Canyon size (microscopically speaking) scorched trench through millions or even billions of transistor gates in those devices. If you cannot get into the habit of touching bare metal of the case interior BEFORE (and frequently thereafter) reaching in, use a "good" ESD wrist band.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Ummm, that's a very bad idea. But first, that tutorial is [supposedly! ] to prevent ESDs - electro-static discharges. It is not for establishing a common ground between components to prevent EMI/RFI - which is what is needed here.

Second, what that would do is make a very effective (low resistance) path to Earth ground. That would NOT be good if the idea is to "prevent" ESD destruction because it is the source of the ESD that needs to be grounded - and with computers, that source is typically the user.

The best solution to prevent damage from ESD is to put you and your computer "at the same potential". This is "best" done simply by the user touching bare metal of the computer case's interior. This immediately establishes a "common" ground between the user and the computer, thus harmlessly discharging any static in the user to the computer's chassis, and if prevent further build up of static in the user's body.

If you establish a near 0Ω resistance path to Earth ground via that modified power cable, you risk the static in your body discharging right through an ESD sensitive device (such as your CPU, GPU or memory modules), torching a Grand Canyon size (microscopically speaking) scorched trench through millions or even billions of transistor gates in those devices. If you cannot get into the habit of touching bare metal of the case interior BEFORE (and frequently thereafter) reaching in, use a "good" ESD wrist band.

Not only that... not all wrist straps have the included 1M resistor in the wire... actually usually there is a grounding distribution box and it resides the resistors for each specific devices you use in your usual EPA zone, and wrist strap itself is without a resistor.

There is no disclaimer about that. Basically that GN article is a potential death trap.

I agree the habit to discharge yourself before doing anything is basically enough for home scenarios. But that's our empirical experience, maybe also because we just don't wear any synthetics also, that holds way more charge.

ESD has no connection to this particular case tho.

I've fought these problems myriad times in the past, and it always came to be the motherboard design especially budget ones. Just swapping to another maker or PCB on the same platform fixed it. Trying to mitigate the issue by improving grounding just drops some dB on the noise floor, but it is still there.

I forgot, there is plan B.

Feeding either the amp or PC from a pure sine based UPS. It also cures it.

 

[qubit]

@Octopuss

You've got some good replies on here, so I won't repeat them. What you're hearing is the raw operation of the computer. It's as annoying as it's fascinating and you'll recognize certain sounds for certain processing tasks, too.

It's a fact of life that all computers emit RF noise due to their high frequency operation (yes, even the old 8-bit computers from the 1980s with their 1MHz CPUs) so it all depends on how well this noise is shielded from the analog side of the sound card. How good this suppression is depends on how good the combination of mobo and sound card are at suppressing it. A ground loop, or poor ground can amplify the problem. Maybe even the design and quality of the PSU can contribute it. It's a tricky thing to design well and suppress.

Tell me, do you hear it at normal volume, or only when the volume is at max? No suppression is perfect, unfortunately. Your only option for guaranteeing to completely eliminating it is to optically isolate an external sound card from the PC with something like S/PDIF and then keep the sound card physically away from the PC, perhaps a metre or so.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........you can make a cable yourself and leave it permanently connected with you computer case...

Gamersnexus DIY

This is some serious overkill neckbeard level stuff

 

[Octopuss]

What annoys me there is noise even when I disconnect all USB devices. Like I mentioned, it's two different noises.

I'll see if I can find a cheap socket tester somewhere, or I'll ask an electrician to come over and check the house himself, but I am sure the grounding is not a problem otherwise there would be some accidents, fried equipment or whatever over the years.

 

[Aquinus]

If you must power from different outlets, run a grounding wire loop connecting each component together to establish a "common ground". Basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on on the metal chassis of each component case will establish that common ground. Just make sure the screw does not simply go into plastic.

Won't that open the possibility of a ground loop because you're offering multiple paths to ground?

 

[Octopuss]

Someone suggested I buy this https://www.litheaudio.com/spares-and-accessories-all/01589.html
What do you think?

 

[eidairaman1]

There is no fix. It is the mouse doing interrupts and ramping up CPU VRM.

It is a poor motherboard design. There is no cure for it un less you force everything run on constant maximum without any power saving feature.

Fastest cure is to galvanically isolate the amplifier from the PC and most easy option is to use optical - SPDIF. There are galvanically isolated USB options and feed the DAC and then the amplifier.

Other than that... changing motherboard.

This problem has been around since Audio started being integrated on motherboards. Sound cards was the solution to the emi.

 

[micropage7]

What annoys me there is noise even when I disconnect all USB devices. Like I mentioned, it's two different noises.

I'll see if I can find a cheap socket tester somewhere, or I'll ask an electrician to come over and check the house himself, but I am sure the grounding is not a problem otherwise there would be some accidents, fried equipment or whatever over the years.

it looks like your usb controller bring the noise into your sound, btw you use onboard soundcard or external?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Won't that open the possibility of a ground loop because you're offering multiple paths to ground?

Good question. A "ground loop" is the result of current flow between two dissimilar grounds due to a "difference in potentials" from those points to Earth ground. The ground wire connecting all the components actually closes any potential loop by tying the two grounds (from each outlet) together forming a "common" ground to Earth ground.

If you go to a proper electronics repair facility and look at a workstation, you will often see an anti-static/anti-conductive floor mat, anti-static/anti-conductive pad on the work bench, and the workbench itself all tied together with grounding straps. And the technician then straps all the equipment he or she is working on to that same bench grounding point along with his or her wrist strap. This is to ensure everything, including the technician, are all at the same point and there is no difference in potentials. If no difference, there can be no current flow - no accidental electrocutions. And that's a good thing!

It should be noted this is rarely a problem in a properly wired house. And it is a bigger problem with high power analog systems - like home theater audio equipment. I saw it in my 60 year old house because 1/2 my house wiring used 2-conductor aluminum wires in metal conduit, and the other1/2 used 3-conductor 1/2 copper. Don't ask me why. I don't know. I do know there was a global copper shortage when the house was built - but I don't know why the previous owners only replaced some of it. We won't get into some of the totally unorthodox plumbing issues I've encountered.

My first love in electronics is for audiophile quality home audio equipment. When I bought this house 30 years ago, I kept hearing 60Hz hum through my speakers and could see "noise" on my TV. My audio gear was plugged into one wall outlet and the TV, cable box and VCR were plugged into another wall outlet. In my case, I simply ran a small length of hookup wire from a grounding point on my TV to a chassis screw on my audio amp and everything cleared up.

 

[Octopuss]

it looks like your usb controller bring the noise into your sound, btw you use onboard soundcard or external?

Neither. I have Soundblaster card.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Neither. I have Soundblaster card.

Make sure the cables to your speakers are in good condition, firmly seated in the sockets, and not running along side other cables. If me, I would even swap out those cables (if not hardwired to the speakers - at least temporarily to see what happens.

 

[Octopuss]

The cables are in pristine condition, I even bough semi-expensive thick one for the speakers. Why shouldn't they, they aren't ever touched.
There are only two power cables for the amp and the monitor in the vicinity, plus DP for the monitor. That's all. Speakers are wired with copper cables to the amp. There is likely absolutely nothing wrong in that area.
Besides, the setup hasn't changed for what, three years? And it surely hasn't changed for the past few months since I upgraded the PC. I only noticed the stupid noise last week. Gah.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Why shouldn't they, they aren't ever touched.

Never assume there can be no factory defect. However, if they worked for 3 years and nothing has changed since, then fine, it likely is not a defect in the cables.

Any other new nearby electronics? A new TV, for example?