27 vs 36 decibel HDD

[Bill_Bright]

Helium is used because it is less dense than air. Consequently, drag and turbulence is reduced.

Because the platters are encased in a sealed compartment filled with the gas, oxygen cannot get in. And that is what prevents oxidation/corrosion.

 

[Shrek]

I believe helium is used in higher RPM drives to reduce the drag of the spinning platters.
This means less opposing force , and less power needed to spin the platters.

How does that work, as one can no longer have a filtered hole to equilibrate with the atmospheric pressure?

 

[eidairaman1]

Helium is used because it is less dense than air. Consequently, drag and turbulence is reduced.

Because the platters are encased in a sealed compartment filled with the gas, oxygen cannot get in. And that is what prevents oxidation/corrosion.

Yup telcos use nitrogen encapsulation in cable vaults for old paper insulated telephony cables.

(I think it is Helium for mig/tig welding)

 

[Bill_Bright]

How does that work, as one can no longer have a filtered hole to equilibrate with the atmospheric pressure?

I was wondering about that too. People used to assume drives were hermetically sealed, as in "air tight", but they weren't. They had that filtered hole, as you noted to account for changes in atmospheric pressure - for example, when notebooks were taken to high altitude on aircraft.

I am assuming because helium is much less dense than air, even at very high altitudes, the internal pressures never get high enough to cause problems.

Yup telcos use nitrogen encapsulation in cable vaults for old paper insulated telephony cables.

I used to work with pressurized cables that housed the control and audio cables between the air traffic control tower and the remote receiver and transmitter sites. These were buried cables and the pressure kept moisture out. Nitrogen was used because (besides being cheap and abundant), its pressure does not fluctuate due to changes in ground temperatures. This is why a lot of tire shops use nitrogen in car tires. But for cables, it also ensures oxygen does not get in there too.

 

[Shrek]

Nitrogen was used because (besides being cheap and abundant), its pressure does not fluctuate due to changes in ground temperatures. This is why a lot of tire shops use nitrogen in car tires.

I hate to disagree, but a perfect/ideal gas obeys

P V = n R T​

no matter if it is nitrogen or oxygen. Air is predominantly nitrogen anyhow.

 

[Jacky_BEL]

How does that work, as one can no longer have a filtered hole to equilibrate with the atmospheric pressure?

The HDD's are just totally sealed:

The Race to Seal Helium HDDs

 

[repman244]

The helium drives are sealed - there is no filtered hole like on other drives.

The helium reduces friction when the platters spin and with that in mind you can fit more platters in a HDD and not be limited by thermals.

 

[Shrek]

Makes sense, but lets calculate forces (should the drive find itself in a vacuum)

14.7 lbs/in^2​

A 3 1/2 inch drive is about 4" x 5 1/2", so that would be 325 lbs; call it two people standing on the drive. Not so bad, very doable.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I hate to disagree, but a perfect/ideal gas obeys

You love to disagree. I say just Google it - then go argue with the tire shops, and with the military and airlines who have been using nitrogen in aircraft tires for decades.

And nobody is talking about "perfect".

And just because air is mostly nitrogen, that IN NO WAY means air behaves like nitrogen, or the other way around.

Now please don't run this thread OT - which has absolutely nothing to due with nitrogen.

 

[Shrek]

You just blocked my ability to answer.

 

[Lei]

Does anyone know a software that can monitor my hdd activity for hours? So far the best I could find only keeps a 5 minutes log. Want to know how much idle time I have.

 

[Ferd]

is 36 too loud?

What is considered loud for you can be accepted or just fine for someone else , no amount of theoretical explanation will give an answer, this is one of those things you have to test in real life

 

[HTC]

Does anyone know a software that can monitor my hdd activity for hours? So far the best I could find only keeps a 5 minutes log. Want to know how much idle time I have.

HDSentinel?

I stopped using it when i ditched Windows but i used it, up until then.

 

[eidairaman1]

I was wondering about that too. People used to assume drives were hermetically sealed, as in "air tight", but they weren't. They had that filtered hole, as you noted to account for changes in atmospheric pressure - for example, when notebooks were taken to high altitude on aircraft.

I am assuming because helium is much less dense than air, even at very high altitudes, the internal pressures never get high enough to cause problems.


I used to work with pressurized cables that housed the control and audio cables between the air traffic control tower and the remote receiver and transmitter sites. These were buried cables and the pressure kept moisture out. Nitrogen was used because (besides being cheap and abundant), its pressure does not fluctuate due to changes in ground temperatures. This is why a lot of tire shops use nitrogen in car tires. But for cables, it also ensures oxygen does not get in there too.

Yup aviation tires use nitrogen. I dont believe tire shops around here use nitrogen due to the expense of using nitrogen generation/converter equipment.

What is considered loud for you can be accepted or just fine for someone else , no amount of theoretical explanation will give an answer, this is one of those things you have to test in real life

Its why I gave a link.

 

[Shrek]

Yup aviation tires use nitrogen. I dont believe tire shops around here use nitrogen due to the expense of using nitrogen generation/converter equipment.

Facts and Myths About Nitrogen Inflated Tires - Make Driving Fun with Performance Tires & Wheels | Tire Rack

"The only benefit from running pure nitrogen in tires is the increased air retention (slower loss of air out of the tires over time). A tire that is normally maintained with the proper air pressure will perform exactly like a tire with a pure nitrogen fill. If you can get a pure nitrogen fill for free, there is no harm in doing so but very little (if any) benefit from it."

I fill my tires with air knowing the oxygen will diffuse out faster and so what remains will self enrich in nitrogen, but that will take quite a long time.

 

[95Viper]

Get back on topic.
Stop the side topics.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It doesn't bother.

Wait a minute. I realized that what I'm hearing all this time is 23db noise of my hard drive. The sound I'm hearing is from the idle mode. And Ultrastar idles even quieter.
This might mean that with Ultrastar I may not hear the constant non-bothering huuuuum

In that case, buy with confidence and enjoy your new, very spacious drive!

IBM's Ultrastar name was actually changed from Deskstar.

Actually, no. The Deskstar and Ultrastar were two completely different lines BITD. The Deskstar was IBMs IDE lineup and the Ultrastar was the SCSI 10kRPM lineup. I know this because I owned both. Very different. BITD, I had a SCSI320 RAID5 array with 4 18GB Ultrastars. They ran fast.

The modern Ultrastar range is the highend/high capacity drive from the Hitachi division of WD.

 

[micropage7]

Hello,
I currently have a western digital blue which makes 27db while seek. it's 5400rpm.
Planning to upgrade, but all HDD above 14TB capacity are 7200rpm and Ultrastar makes 36db

is 36 too loud? My PC is so quiet when the monitor is off there's no way to say pc is on or off.
Also if you know any 18tb @5400rpm let me know. Thanks

I'm a bit skeptical, because increasing fan speed from 800 to 1000 makes them significantly louder

WD Blue
Ultrastar

from the spec, yes it is louder but since you put them in the case it will cut some db and with those fans, current airflow, you won't too notice it

 

[Lei]

I discovered one more thing.
Ultrastar and WD Red Pro are filled with helium in capacities of 12tb and above.

Notice 10tb idles at 34db and consumes 8 watts at idle, whereas the 12tb idles at 20db and consumes 5 watts (less hungry than 1TB which certainly has fewer platters)
Also 10tb weights 750 grams whereas 12tb is 660 grams (lighter than 4tb which is not helioseal) Helium is 7 times lighter than air


Pay attention to this from pdf : Five generations of Helioseal Technology from 12tb and above
so if you see any review complaining about Ultrastar noise, make sure to check which capacity they've got. (Amazon customers who complained all had =<10tb)
HC300 series not helium HC500 is helium

Same thing about WD Gold, from 10 to 12tb suddenly there's a 90gram weight loss and power friendly

The name is misleading, I though since it is a star, there must be helium in all of them; there's helium in some Gold and Red
WD Red pro
Ultrastar
WD Gold

 

[skizzo]

With all respect to the user above, I’d ignore their advice. Everyone perceives noise differently, and some are more sensitive to it than others. Personally, I’d kill myself if I had a velociraptor in my desktop. I ended up giving mine away back in the day because of the noise.

The general rule of thumb is that a 3dB increase is perceived as twice the noise. So yes, you will definitely notice the difference if your 5400rpm drive is bothering you now.

Unfortunately, once you get past 8TB there aren’t many “quiet” options on the market. If you can, I’d recommend picking up or building a NAS so that you can keep the noise away from you (that’s what I did ), or get two lower capacity drives to offset the increase in noise.

If you’re set on a single, high capacity drive, and happen to have a spare 5” bay, I’d get some thick rubber bands to suspend the drive. It won’t solve the seek noise, but it will help with noise overall.

it is every 6dB (SPL) that is doubled in amplitude and 10dB will double "perceived" volume which is what 99% of normal people would refer to in these situations where one would say "that sounds twice/half as loud". never once heard anyone who works with audio suggest a 3dB change is halving/doubling anything

 

[Shrek]

3 dB = 10^0.3 = 1.99526

 

[Lei]

Georgia State University:
Rule of thumb for Loudness

Ultrastar is twice as loud from a 5400rpm during seek and the difference while idle is meh

3 dB = 10^0.3 = 1.99526

 

[skizzo]

as a test (proof) go to a mixing desk, or any DAW, pull down/push up a fader by 3dB and that will show why it is wrong to think a 3dB change makes amplitude/perceived loudness change by half/double.

I understand where that math come from, but in reality that is not what the human ear hears. I will not pretend I know wtf sound "power" is but I do understand it doesn't equate to the same as perceived loudness. But I'll concede, yes, 3dB apparently does change something, "power" by half/double....but what that means to the end user....I really don't know. I say that because no one says "can you turn that crap down by half of the sound power please! 3dB should do it!"

 

[Valantar]

I discovered one more thing.
Ultrastar and WD Red Pro are filled with helium in capacities of 12tb and above.

Notice 10tb idles at 34db and consumes 8 watts at idle, whereas the 12tb idles at 20db and consumes 5 watts (less hungry than 1TB which certainly has fewer platters)
Also 10tb weights 750 grams whereas 12tb is 660 grams (lighter than 4tb which is not helioseal) Helium is 7 times lighter than air


Pay attention to this from pdf : Five generations of Helioseal Technology from 12tb and above
so if you see any review complaining about Ultrastar noise, make sure to check which capacity they've got. (Amazon customers who complained all had =<10tb)
HC300 series not helium HC500 is helium

Same thing about WD Gold, from 10 to 12tb suddenly there's a 90gram weight loss and power friendly

The name is misleading, I though since it is a star, there must be helium in all of them; there's helium in some Gold and Red
WD Red pro
Ultrastar
WD Gold
View attachment 220321

There is no way of there being 90g of air inside of the 10TB version, so the 12TB version likely has fewer, higher density platters.

As for the noise question: everyone has different thresholds for annoyance. I've long since ditched mechanical drives in my pc, and put them in a NAS instead. This means my hallway has a bit more background noise than before, but it's not like that's somewhere I spend significant time. All the while my pc is inaudible under anything but full load. Your preferences are likely different. The main question: is humming/buzzing more or less annoying to you than clicking/sudden noises? Are they equal? If the former, I would get a NAS, but in lieu of that, focus on idle noise. If the latter, I would think about how often the HDD is used and go from there.

 

[Lei]

Air density 1.27 kg/m3

HDD dimensions: 14x10x2.6 = 0.00038602 cubic meter
if hard drive was entirely made of air, it would weight 0.4902454 grams
if it was all helium it would be 0.0656234 grams
double check : yep they're 7 times apart 0.06x7=0.42

difference between weight of air and helium in that volume : 0.424622

Ok, helium makes it half a gram lighter, so other components must be also different.
Anyway, from 12tb and up, a lot of things including acoustics change. We tend to think higher capacities are louder because they have more platters and arms; but it's not true once Helioseal enters the realm.

There is no way of there being 90g of air inside of the 10TB version, so the 12TB version likely has fewer, higher density platters.

As for the noise question: everyone has different thresholds for annoyance. I've long since ditched mechanical drives in my pc, and put them in a NAS instead. This means my hallway has a bit more background noise than before, but it's not like that's somewhere I spend significant time. All the while my pc is inaudible under anything but full load. Your preferences are likely different. The main question: is humming/buzzing more or less annoying to you than clicking/sudden noises? Are they equal? If the former, I would get a NAS, but in lieu of that, focus on idle noise. If the latter, I would think about how often the HDD is used and go from there.

So this statement is disregarding Helium capability:

Unfortunately, once you get past 8TB there aren’t many “quiet” options on the market. If you can, I’d recommend picking up or building a NAS so that you can keep the noise away from you (that’s what I did ), or get two lower capacity drives to offset the increase in noise.