Windows 10 & Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Performance

W1zzard · Nov 12, 2021

Intel made it clear that their 12th Gen Alder Lake Hybrid processor architecture works best with Windows 11. We wanted to see what happens when you run the new Core i9-12900K processor on Windows 10 and tested 37 applications and 10 games at 720p, 1080p, 1440p, and 4K.

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bug · Nov 12, 2021

How was variance between tests? With things being randomly sent to the E cores, I expect variance was more of a problem than in your "regular" testing.

DeathtoGnomes · Nov 12, 2021

Must have taken forever and a day to complete this review!

Thank you much for it @W1zzard

Lycanwolfen · Nov 12, 2021

I hope your turned on the Heterogeneous policy in Windows 10 to handle those cores.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\7f2f5cfa-f10c-4823-b5e1-e93ae85f46b5
Attributes = 2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\93b8b6dc-0698-4d1c-9ee4-0644e900c85d
Attributes = 2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\bae08b81-2d5e-4688-ad6a-13243356654b
Attributes = 2

Those are from Windows 10 allows you to adjust profromant and effeicent cpu cores

Mescalamba · Nov 12, 2021

Wouldnt worry much about "end of Win 10".

a) before there is actual end of Win 10, I expect Win 11 to be fairly usable (they should be able to make at least one good version in next 4 years I hope)

b) there is LTSC, big fan of that, using it right now .. and eagerly waiting for update, cause while its great in many aspects, its currently seriously behind and Im starting to chew my fingers a bit since there is few new features that I kinda need

hopefully, anyday soon

Anyway, LTSC should be good for 2025+5 so up to 2030. At that time Win 10 probably will be really obsolete anyway. I expect to move to Win 11 LTSC when its on like 2nd or 3rd release. If first will be like Win 10, then that will be a bit too much of beta.

Inability to select what core should do what is fairly amazing, given its something Windows struggle with since birth of Hyper-Threading.

But then its MS.

dayne878 · Nov 12, 2021

I had troubles when I upgraded to Windows 11 (taskbar completely disappeared after an update and then ended up having to reinstall Windows 10 to restore functionality after trying many fixes), so I won't be upgrading to Windows 11 any time soon.

I also won't be upgrading to Alder Lake anytime soon either, though. I just built this rig in June 2020 with a 10700K and the next upgrade is the GPU (upgrading from older 2080ti) when prices come down to a sane level. I don't plan on buying a new CPU/motherboard until 2023/2024 at the earliest, by which point I'll probably just do a clean install of Windows 11 on that new rig to avoid any issues that come with upgrading.

I mostly game on my PC, so when I do eventually upgrading to a processor that has E and P cores I'll be losing out on performance if I don't go to Windows 11, seems like.

mechtech · Nov 12, 2021

Well at least there isn't any major differences between the 2 OS's. FPS pretty much inline.

Mescalamba said:
Wouldnt worry much about "end of Win 10".

a) before there is actual end of Win 10, I expect Win 11 to be fairly usable (they should be able to make at least one good version in next 4 years I hope)

b) there is LTSC, big fan of that, using it right now .. and eagerly waiting for update, cause while its great in many aspects, its currently seriously behind and Im starting to chew my fingers a bit since there is few new features that I kinda need hopefully, anyday soon

Anyway, LTSC should be good for 2025+5 so up to 2030. At that time Win 10 probably will be really obsolete anyway. I expect to move to Win 11 LTSC when its on like 2nd or 3rd release. If first will be like Win 10, then that will be a bit too much of beta.

Inability to select what core should do what is fairly amazing, given its something Windows struggle with since birth of Hyper-Threading. But then its MS.

Is there going to be a Win 11 LTSC version?

looniam · Nov 12, 2021

There's many more approaches to adjust affinity, let us know of those you know in the comments.

Process Lasso?

On Intel 12th Gen CPUs (Alder Lake), CPU Sets can be used to signal the OS to only utilize Performance (P) or Efficiency (E) cores, or some mix of each, for a process.

Crackong · Nov 12, 2021

Nice article

As expected
12th gen is a rushed launch.
Clearly they've skipped the compatibility beta testing.

Prima.Vera · Nov 12, 2021

What a surprise. Software not ready for this, not to mention games.

wheresmycar · Nov 12, 2021

thank you W1zzard!!

So at the moment for a gaming build Windows 10 sees the best performance with e-cores disabled? I just don't like the way Win 11 looks... im so used to the Windows 7 and 10 style of UI and wasn't expecting MS to swap things around. If 10 is pulling out ahead (or closely trailing 11) in game performance = all the reason to stick with 10.

I might just pick up a 12600K (super tempted now)

RandallFlagg · Nov 12, 2021

Honestly not surprising. Alder Lake has great performance in most places, but when the scheduler doesn't want to work correctly with a particular app it takes some big hits.

Intel's release to desktop 'K' only SKUs (enthusiast market) makes a lot of sense from this perspective. Normally we see their latest on laptop/mobile first but this time around they released to the desktop enthusiasts first - something AMD tends to do. Clearly they needed to let big.LITTLE and the new Win11 scheduler - and possibly other things like PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 - gestate a bit first.

seth1911 · Nov 13, 2021

That have nothing to do with the CPU its only a Microsoft thing, they want that u go to 11.

Tremont works very fine with 1 Prime Core and 4 "Atom" Cores :laugh:

Thats the same move to the stupid sheeps like Direct 3D 12 is only for Windows 10 and after a few years Direct 3D 12 was aviable on windows 7,
but ms need the sheeps without brain. They buy the new OS and dont use the brain for any reason.

The reason for 11 is the TPM Module, yeah sheeps dont ckeck it but the TPM Module is a partnership with an hardware based backdoor for NSA and GCHQ.

Ravenas · Nov 13, 2021

The Windows 11 scheduler seems rushed. The Linux scheduler is completely missing, and not even included 5.16.

SL2 · Nov 13, 2021

The thread director gets disabled if you're using more than one display, right?

watzupken · Nov 13, 2021

Crackong said:
Nice article

As expected
12th gen is a rushed launch.
Clearly they've skipped the compatibility beta testing.

I don’t feel it is a rushed product. If anything, I think this is to be expected for a first gen product with software that takes time to catch up. Having said that, the launch of ADL is a flop in my opinion because,
1. Low supply/ option of DDR5 memory. DDR4 option is available, but most launch day motherboards support DDR5,

2. Lack of cooling option - a lot of retail coolers out there still don’t come with LGA 1700 support out of the box. Manufacturers are releasing the mounting kits, but some will only be available in 2022. Even if the mounting kit exists, there may be mounting pressure or compatibility issues.
Therefore I suspect that’s the reason why ADL chips are not flying off the shelves like when AMD released Zen 3 chips.

viper01 · Nov 13, 2021

is this the new Bulldozer having trouble with the M$ scheduler? whose over now???

SL2 · Nov 13, 2021

viper01 said:
whose over now???

Such drama, no one is over.

WhoDecidedThat · Nov 13, 2021

Mescalamba said:
Wouldnt worry much about "end of Win 10".

a) before there is actual end of Win 10, I expect Win 11 to be fairly usable (they should be able to make at least one good version in next 4 years I hope)

b) there is LTSC, big fan of that, using it right now .. and eagerly waiting for update, cause while its great in many aspects, its currently seriously behind and Im starting to chew my fingers a bit since there is few new features that I kinda need hopefully, anyday soon

Anyway, LTSC should be good for 2025+5 so up to 2030. At that time Win 10 probably will be really obsolete anyway. I expect to move to Win 11 LTSC when its on like 2nd or 3rd release. If first will be like Win 10, then that will be a bit too much of beta.

Inability to select what core should do what is fairly amazing, given its something Windows struggle with since birth of Hyper-Threading. But then its MS.

How can I switch to Windows 10 LTSC?

Deleted member 215115 · Nov 13, 2021

Prima.Vera said:
What a surprise. Software not ready for this, not to mention games.

Software has always been behind and I suspect this will still be the case going forward.

Mats said:
The thread director gets disabled if you're using more than one display, right?

Why would it work that way?

SL2 · Nov 13, 2021

Edit: No, it looks like I'm wrong.

rares495 said:
Why would it work that way?

Well, that's how I interpreted AT's review, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. I was hoping someone could clarify this.

First part of page three:

The Intel 12th Gen Core i9-12900K Review: Hybrid Performance Brings Hybrid Complexity

www.anandtech.com

Ripcord · Nov 13, 2021

just wait until we get to the court case that e-cores aren't real cores

W1zzard · Nov 13, 2021

Lycanwolfen said:
I hope your turned on the Heterogeneous policy in Windows 10 to handle those cores.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\7f2f5cfa-f10c-4823-b5e1-e93ae85f46b5
Attributes = 2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\93b8b6dc-0698-4d1c-9ee4-0644e900c85d
Attributes = 2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\bae08b81-2d5e-4688-ad6a-13243356654b
Attributes = 2

Those are from Windows 10 allows you to adjust profromant and effeicent cpu cores

Alright let's see .. I'm curious .. and I doubt anyone properly researched this before..

The three options you listed are the ones that are expanded in the screenshot, this is on Windows 10, defaults are shown

options available are:

As requested I'm setting them all to "2":

Unfortunately it has no effect:

Corona render still ends up running on E-Cores

Edit: Policy 0, 1 and 3 do work to put Corona on the E+P-Cores. Any idea what these values stand for?

Playing with the settings it definitely looks like Windows 10 can be aware of Hybrid:

Tsukiyomi91 · Nov 13, 2021

pretty mixed bag in terms of productivity and heavy CPU-bound workloads. Gaming seems more or less the same. So.... the whole fear about "use Windows 11 to get the best experience with Alder Lake" is over-exaggerated? hmmm

ARF · Nov 13, 2021

So, Intel cut the real cores to make them with lower performance because of profit margins, right? Leaving the whole mess with the OS thingie for the poor consumer to deal with and bang their heads to the wall?!
It could have been no real problem at all to offer 16-high performance cores in a 95-watt TDP, or outsource the production to the better TSMC production lines.

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Windows 10 & Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Performance

W1zzard

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bug

DeathtoGnomes

Lycanwolfen

Mescalamba

dayne878

mechtech

looniam

Crackong

Prima.Vera

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seth1911

Ravenas

SL2

watzupken

viper01

SL2

WhoDecidedThat

Deleted member 215115

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SL2

The Intel 12th Gen Core i9-12900K Review: Hybrid Performance Brings Hybrid Complexity

Ripcord

W1zzard

Administrator

Tsukiyomi91

ARF

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