• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Why is battery technology so behind the times?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 24505
  • Start date
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.24/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
That's true of Lithium batteries as well.

This!


That is an aspect we should care less about.

We don't need new elements. We need creative thinking to formulate better chemistries from the existing lot.


While that is correct, the problem is volume. In small amounts, yes LiFePo is safer by far. But in large battery packs like the type that go into vehicles, cascade and runaway effects apply dramatically. The danger is reduced, sure, but not by nearly enough.

The solution is NOT Lithium based.

so far lithium is doing me okay.. but then again i aint daft enough to own an electric car.. for anything more than short local trips i think they are a waste of space.. more so when governments start charging a mileage tax in an attempt to get the lost gas tax back.. i do own a couple of electric bikes though..

trog
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
5,363 (1.04/day)
Location
Gougeland (NZ)
System Name Cumquat 2021
Processor AMD RyZen R7 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus Strix X670E - E Gaming WIFI
Cooling Deep Cool LT720 + CM MasterGel Pro TP + Lian Li Uni Fan V2
Memory 32GB GSkill Trident Z5 Neo 6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ OC RX6800 16GB DDR6 2270Cclk / 2010Mclk
Storage 1x Adata SX8200PRO NVMe 1TB gen3 x4 1X Samsung 980 Pro NVMe Gen 4 x4 1TB, 12TB of HDD Storage
Display(s) AOC 24G2 IPS 144Hz FreeSync Premium 1920x1080p
Case Lian Li O11D XL ROG edition
Audio Device(s) RX6800 via HDMI + Pioneer VSX-531 amp Technics 100W 5.1 Speaker set
Power Supply EVGA 1000W G5 Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core Wired
Keyboard Logitech G915 Wireless
Software Windows 11 X64 PRO (build 23H2)
Benchmark Scores it sucks even more less now ;)
Give me an EV that uses Molten Metal Batteries
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
As long as those batteries have to move, I don't see how weight can be ignored.
We're not talking about lead-acid kinds of weight. NiMH batteries are only 15% to 20% heavier depending on formulation and packaging. That's not a lot when considering weight in the context of a battery pack being compared to the rest of the mass of the vehicle in question.
There aren't any, so yeah...
That's not true, but that's a completely different topic altogether.
Maybe. Or maybe we need some outside-the-box thinking and another way to harness electricity. Both easier said than done
True. We need a breakthrough somewhere because the status-quo is not acceptable.

so far lithium is doing me okay.. but then again i aint daft enough to own an electric car..
And there we are. Small amounts of it are ok. Still risky as a phone or tablet battery catching fire can still burn a house down, but the risk is much smaller than packing several hundred kilograms of the stuff into a car...
i do own a couple of electric bikes though..
That's something I can get behind as well. Smaller battery packs and if they catch fire, it's a very easy task to get off of a bike. I actually want one. 29" wide wheel version.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
671 (0.54/day)
Location
Austria
System Name nope
Processor I3 10100F
Motherboard ATM Gigabyte h410
Cooling Arctic 12 passive
Memory ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD7770 and EVGA GTX 470 and Zotac GTX 960
Storage 120GB OS SSD, 240GB M2 Sata, 240GB M2 NVME, 300GB HDD, 500GB HDD
Display(s) Nec EA 241 WM
Case Coolermaster whatever
Audio Device(s) Onkyo on TV and Mi Bluetooth on Screen
Power Supply Super Flower Leadx 550W
Mouse Steelseries Rival Fnatic
Keyboard Logitech K270 Wireless
Software Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC
I think its the pricepoint.

On the CPU with Silicon its the same, there are new techniques but no one will use it. (Graphene, Gallium et all.)

In 2010 i read an article about the future CPU in the comming 10 years, it will use Graphene and Gallium et all, now 12 years later nothing happens still Silicon but now with 5 GHz stock boost Clocks.
If we compare one core of a I7 860 on the same clock with a I7 12700 core, we get maybe about 93% performance gain in 13 years.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
8,253 (1.24/day)
System Name money pit..
Processor Intel 9900K 4.8 at 1.152 core voltage minus 0.120 offset
Motherboard Asus rog Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling Dark Rock TF air cooler.. Stock vga air coolers with case side fans to help cooling..
Memory 32 gb corsair vengeance 3200
Video Card(s) Palit Gaming Pro OC 2080TI
Storage 150 nvme boot drive partition.. 1T Sandisk sata.. 1T Transend sata.. 1T 970 evo nvme m 2..
Display(s) 27" Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 165Hrz Nvidia G-Sync, IPS.. 2560x1440..
Case Gigabyte mid-tower.. cheap and nothing special..
Audio Device(s) onboard sounds with stereo amp..
Power Supply EVGA 850 watt..
Mouse Logitech G700s
Keyboard Logitech K270
Software Win 10 pro..
Benchmark Scores Firestike 29500.. timepsy 14000..
i aint gonna knock lithium batteries.. they have pretty much change the world as we know it.. the power they can produce is remarkable..

i have a small-ish jump start pack.. it can easily fit in one hand or a large pocket.. it has the power to jump start a large diesel engine.. i would not have believed it if there wasnt youtube videos showing them in action..

there is one video of a guy who owns a large shovel truck.. its lead acid batteries died years ago.. he used this pissy little lithium jump start device to start the bloody thing.. remarkable..

trog
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
What I meant was that the periodic table is far from complete.
Oh, it's absolutely complete. Everything after actinides is only made in the lab and unstable. There can't be anything stable with a nucleus that big, weak interaction says.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Oh, it's absolutely complete. Everything after actinides is only made in the lab and unstable.
That statement is deeply flawed as it contradicts itself. It is also incorrect. All of the elements we have made occur in nature under extreme situations. Our star system does not facilitate conditions for those elements to occur naturally and as such we can only create & study them through artificial means.
There can't be anything stable with a nucleus that big, weak interaction says.
Rubbish. We just haven't progressed far enough to have discovered both the isotopes of heavy elements that can and will be stable and discovered how to make them. Remember, atomic/nuclear science is still very young. We have A LOT left to learn!
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
That statement is deeply flawed as it contradicts itself.

Rubbish. We just haven't progressed far enough to have discovered both the isotopes of heavy elements that can and will be stable and discovered how to make them. Remember, atomic/nuclear science is still very young. We have A LOT left to learn!
There is nothing to learn here though. Protons are positively charged, the force holding them together is only ~100x stronger than the electric force pushing them apart. When the nucleus has 250 particles or more, protons start to be far enough from each other the weak interaction won't hold them together anymore (it has a short range). That's why fission happens naturally. That's why you can't put more protons together than the nature already has.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
There is nothing to learn here though. Protons are positively charged, the force holding them together is only ~100x stronger than the electric force pushing them apart. When the nucleus has 250 particles or more, protons start to be far enough from each other the weak interaction won't hold them together anymore (it has a short range). That's why fission happens naturally. That's why you can't put more protons together than the nature already has.
While I could address these points and explain why they are both correct and incorrect, this is not the place for that discussion and I'm not spending that kind of time here. I'm just going to end off by saying there is more involved that you seem aware of.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
While I could address these points and explain why they are both correct and incorrect, this is not the place for that discussion and I'm not spending that kind of time here. I'm just going to end off by saying there is more involved that you seem aware of.
Maybe send me a PM if you find the time? I'm always looking to learn more about these things (full disclosure: I am not an expert in nuclear physics :D).
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Maybe send me a PM if you find the time? I'm always looking to learn more about these things (full disclosure: I am not an expert in nuclear physics :D).
I of course meant no offense to you. To explain why stable super heavy element isotopes are possible in certain conditions would take days of typing and even then I would only scratch the surface and not enough to help you fully understand. I will grant you that WE, here on Earth, might never discover a way to create them, but such is a far cry from saying they are impossible to discover.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
I of course meant no offense to you. To explain why stable super heavy element isotopes are possible in certain conditions would take days of typing and even then I would only scratch the surface and not enough to help you fully understand. I will grant you that WE, here on Earth, might never discover a way to create them, but such is a far cry from saying they are impossible to discover.

I was explaining to my GF the other day that the silver her chain is made from is only made when a star explodes.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
I of course meant no offense to you.
None taken.
To explain why stable super heavy element isotopes are possible in certain conditions would take days of typing and even then I would only scratch the surface and not enough to help you fully understand. I will grant you that WE, here on Earth, might never discover a way to create them, but such is a far cry from saying they are impossible to discover.
I'm still not sure that would qualify as a new element any more than the rest of the synthetic elements do. And I certainly wouldn't hold my breath for that to fix my phone battery problem :D
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
1,002 (0.19/day)
IMHO, space could be good source of energy and experimenting with materials that don't work on Earth. Low to no gravity, extreme heat and cold. And ofc vacuum.

Question is, how to get it back to Earth.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
IMHO, space could be good source of energy and experimenting with materials that don't work on Earth. Low to no gravity, extreme heat and cold. And ofc vacuum.

Question is, how to get it back to Earth.

Laser? convert the heat back into electricity, also cooling the high powered laser would be no problem.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
1,002 (0.19/day)
Laser? convert the heat back into electricity, also cooling the high powered laser would be no problem.
Hm, wonder if that could work. Problem would be probably possibility of weaponization. :D Golden Eye stuff.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Hm, wonder if that could work. Problem would be probably possibility of weaponization. :D Golden Eye stuff.
It's not that easy to weaponize laser. It requires maintaining the beam on the target for (tens of) seconds, which is not so easy when targeting moving stuff.
That said, I have read about a project back in 2000s about capturing sunlight in orbit, converting it (UV? can't remember exactly) and sending it down to Earth. The aim back then was to light up a bulb. I haven't heard anything about that since.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
That depends on the kind of harm you want to inflict and the type of laser you use to do it.
The problem I see is that you can't gather too much power in orbit. The best you can do is accumulate energy somehow and then release it. That would be a pulse laser, which I think is pretty effective. The alternative would be a rather anemic, continuous beam. You could use that to set a building (fuel depot?) on fire.
So yes, possible, but rather inefficient. Or maybe my imagination isn't vivid enough.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,157 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Can you not "fire" plasma?
Through the atmosphere? Probably not.
I mean, you can, but it would cool off long before it would reach its target.
 
Top