Intel and Windows 11 Deprecating SGX Breaks 4K Blu-ray Playback

[chrcoluk]

People who actually care about superior BR quality and have hardware which lets them appreciate such quality, i.e. a treated room, semi-professional laser projector worth as much as an average apartment and an equally expensive audio system? I happen to know such a person, he would laugh very loudly at the idea of using a computer with Windows as a source.

For most people watching movies is just a thing they do as low priority entertainment, not their core activity. In this context streaming is a huge progress for the vast majority of people - convenience is king and the quality only has to be "good enough".

I agree, there is diminishing returns, 480p is a bit yuckie but definitely watchable on my 27inch, 720p I actually feel is good enough for me personally, and 1080p kind of refines it.

If I watch 4k and look for the differences I can see them, but its definitely far from a requirement for me, at 1080p I can already see all the details I need to see.

Netflix has proven as you said, it just needs to be "good enough" and convenience is king, been able to at a click start watching a movie, instead of buying or renting a disc, and having to get up and insert it into a player. Plus no storage space required on shelves etc.

I am also someone who now thinks stereo is good enough, surround sound speaker setups just aren't worth the hassle, and this is also proving itself on PC where the most dominant setup by far now days is stereo headphones.

 

[insane 360]

i don't use 4k bluray's but i do have bluray drives in my desktop. i use MakeMKV to rip the bluray and let plex take care of the rest so i can watch the video everywhere.

hadn't seen a need for 4k yet, does this throw a wrench in makeMKV for ripping?

 

[davyangel]

You've always had to jump through way too many hoops to get 4k BR working on PC so unlike BR I never even bothered trying and just got an Xbox One S when it was on sale. Disappointing state of affairs as the DRM never stopped piracy of 4k discs, but it sure made it hard and expensive to do legit.

YUP this!
Ditto also just ended up getting an Xbox to play 4k disc since ever since like I can remember Microsoft made it harder with each new version to play back any legit content with DRM restrictions!
Cyberlink actually has an entire checklist of approved motherbords, cpu, 4k drive, etc required to get 4K BR disc working in Windows and even then still might not work!

DRM I feel is actually at the point where it increases piracy instead of (potentially, never been proven) reducing it.

And it actually increases security vulnerabilites since Windows purposely makes low level changes to OS to meet DRM requirements. This actually one of the main reasons they got rid of SGX with 12th gen Intel CPUs.

 

[Tardian]

PS5 & LG OLED gives UHD Blu-ray bliss. Yes, one needs to sit close to get a real benefit unless the 83" display is used.

 

[R-T-B]

This actually one of the main reasons they got rid of SGX with 12th gen Intel CPUs.

That has more to do with Intel finally waking up to the fact that Hardware Security is a flawed model than anything to do with "modifying windows."

 

[Tardian]

SGX enclaves are also limited in size. All enclaves on a system must fit into the Enclave Page Cache, which is currently limited to 128MiB total—not 128MiB per process. Obviously, you can't fit entire operating systems—or even most containers—in only 128MiB, which means that application developers must make careful and extremely difficult decisions about which parts of memory are "confidential" and which are not.

Intel promises Full Memory Encryption in upcoming CPUs

Intel's security plans sound a lot like "we're going to catch up to AMD."

arstechnica.com

 

[sl1pkn07]

You're one of the two people who have it then.

one more here

 

[Tek-Check]

All 12bit DV streaming rips are having excellent quality. Scene really cares about rip quality.

BluRay only uses HEVC Main10, i.e. 10bits for color.

DV 12-bit is displayed on 10-bit panels. They are excellent, but heavily compressed for streaming purposes.
DolbyVision files packaged in HEVC files on disks are also excellent, often even better than stremed content, with higher bitrate.
Plus, disks have lossless audio, which is non-existent on streaming platforms.
Disks still rule for the joint audio-video quality. There is no doubt about it.

Netflix has proven as you said, it just needs to be "good enough" and convenience is king, been able to at a click start watching a movie, instead of buying or renting a disc, and having to get up and insert it into a player. Plus no storage space required on shelves etc.

I am also someone who now thinks stereo is good enough, surround sound speaker setups just aren't worth the hassle, and this is also proving itself on PC where the most dominant setup by far now days is stereo headphones.

Hahaha! If you can't be bothered to insert a disk into player, how do you manage food intake? Delivery into sofa?

I am actually going to cancel Netflix subscription. Have not put it on for a few months now. Done that, moving on.

 

[zlobby]

DV 12-bit is displayed on 10-bit panels. They are excellent, but heavily compressed for streaming purposes.
DolbyVision files packaged in HEVC files on disks are also excellent, often even better than stremed content, with higher bitrate.
Plus, disks have lossless audio, which is non-existent on streaming platforms.
Disks still rule for the joint audio-video quality. There is no doubt about it.


Hahaha! If you can't be bothered to insert a disk into player, how do you manage food intake? Delivery into sofa?

I am actually going to cancel Netflix subscription. Have not put it on for a few months now. Done that, moving on.

Where can one find DV content on disks?

If it is on a disk it means there must be a commercial player that can play the content, right? AFAIK DV is still not in BluRay's book of standards, or any other commercial disk for that matter.

For movies and shows I can live with non-lossless audio. And if I want to see a concert I prefer to just go and see it in person. No record can beat that.
For music alone I prefer lossless formats as my hearing is still good and I have the gear to actually make the difference.

 

[Tek-Check]

Where can one find DV content on disks?

I bought new Dune 4K UHD disk. It was released in DolbyVision. There is more content in DV on disks. Try to search it.

If it is on a disk it means there must be a commercial player that can play the content, right? AFAIK DV is still not in BluRay's book of standards, or any other commercial disk for that matter.

Exactly. Recent 4K UHD disk players support DolbyVision, some better than others. Try reviews to find out - Sony, Panasonic, Reavon, etc.
If saved as movie file on PC and made available on local network, it will play on DV compatible TV either as Dolby Vision file or HDR file, depending on hardware and software used, such as NAS, Nvidia Shield, Plex, internal player, etc.

if I want to see a concert I prefer to just go and see it in person. No record can beat that.

True, but only locally, I am afraid. If a concert is in New York and I live in Dubai, I can't enjoy it live. You can either purchase concert recording on disk or, in future, stream it live with Dante module on high-end AV processor, if service becomes commercially available.

 

[claes]

IIRC Dolby started licensing Vision for blu-ray in 2016? Don’t take my word for it!

 

[zlobby]

True, but only locally, I am afraid. If a concert is in New York and I live in Dubai, I can't enjoy it live. You can either purchase concert recording on disk or, in future, stream it live with Dante module on high-end AV processor, if service becomes commercially available.

It's called plane tickets.

I'm booking my Vienna New Year's concerts an year in advance.

 

[Tek-Check]

It's called plane tickets.

I'm booking my Vienna New Year's concerts an year in advance.

A few can afford it. Live concerts will become more democratized and available to masses in a few years once live streaming over Dante module bocomes more widely adopted in AVRs/PCs. Live event streaming is in its infancy as of now.

Still, it's always good to have a memorable concert on disk too, so that you listen to it whenever you want.

 

[zlobby]

A few can afford it. Live concerts will become more democratized and available to masses in a few years once live streaming over Dante module bocomes more widely adopted in AVRs/PCs. Live event streaming is in its infancy as of now.

Still, it's always good to have a memorable concert on disk too, so that you listen to it whenever you want.

Yes, concerts on disks are certainly an option. Especially if you have seen it first in person, or you have good AV gear and good room accoustics.

 

[JRW]

All parties need to sort out this mess for ordinary users who want to enjoy their movies on PC. Both Intel, AMD and BD Association need to come up with a solution rather than forcing users to buy a stand alone BD player.
And those saying "I do not care" could show more solidarity with home theatre fans. It is in everyone's interest that PC users can also enjoy their collections of movies.

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[A Computer Guy]

I'm sure all 2 people that still watch Blu-rays on their computers will be devastated.

I still have a Toshiba BestBuy laptop with BluRay player and single USB 3 port. Guess I'm gonna have to hold on it to for awhile.

 

[qubit]

This removal of support makes it clear that Blu-ray is a dying format, for better or worse. I guess a successor disc format isn't coming.

I'm sure all 2 people that still watch Blu-rays on their computers will be devastated.

I bought my friend a birthday gift of a 4K Blu-ray movie the other day. Mind you, he's got a stand-alone 4K Blu-ray player so should be ok. Perhaps the only person in the country to have one.

I've seen it in 4K HDR on Sky Cinema, so it will be interesting to compare the video quality which I expect to be better on disc.

Ambulance (2022) ⭐ 6.1 | Action, Crime, Drama

2h 16m | R

m.imdb.com

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Think people just gave up more than pc dvd playing wasn't something people wanted to do seeing one wouldn't need internet like streaming needs

I haven't tried in a while frankly but still have a couple pc LG bluray player might have to see what vlc and makeMKV does
Some dvd's i have and can't find decent downloads for so love to just rip and cut the crap drm out and have just the freaking movie on storage

I pretty much just rip from the internet since it's ezpz to find quality movies/ tv series for free so no need for netflix/ amazon/.. limited and disappearing content monthly fee's.....

 

[AsRock]

DRM has always been a huge broken mess. Even without the absurd PC restrictions ("no, no, you're not allowed to take screenshots... or skip the intros... or breathe..."), even many standalone players by premium brands suffered from the "we'll support this model for 3-5 years and then stop making updates, which means no updated AACS so in +6 years time you won't be able to play the newest movies". Been there and done that with a Sony player. I never bought a replacement, I just stopped buying new Blu-Rays... It's always been the worst kind of planned obsolescence whose long-term compatibility / stability as a standard has been way out of whack vs CD / DVD.

Edited, DRM has always been a issue.

Hi,
Think people just gave up more than pc dvd playing wasn't something people wanted to do seeing one wouldn't need internet like streaming needs

I haven't tried in a while frankly but still have a couple pc LG bluray player might have to see what vlc and makeMKV does
Some dvd's i have and can't find decent downloads for so love to just rip and cut the crap drm out and have just the freaking movie on storage

I pretty much just rip from the internet since it's ezpz to find quality movies/ tv series for free so no need for netflix/ amazon/.. limited and disappearing content monthly fee's.....

Convenience, they don't want the hassle or get of their asses, but in the end it will bite you in the ass. As you will not able to watch some thing when you want to as you cannot get online or some thing.

And if that company (direct2Drive) goes bust you have a good chance of loosing every thing. Which was one reason i lost a bunch of my games as they lost the info and just denied it ever being created.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Good info here about makemkv

I never looked into it before since I don't have any UHD bluray discs. After doing a quick search it doesn't appear that AMD supports anything like SGX so you're basically SOL if you want to try and physically play an UHD bluray on your PC if you're running AMD or any Intel CPU of the 12th gen or later. Watching normal bluray movies works just fine on any system as long as you have a program that'll play bluray discs; I make use of Cyberlink PowerDVD to watch bluray discs on my computer.

I guess if you really wanted to be able to watch UHD on your PC you'd need at least a bluray drive and copy it to your computer. I use MakeMKV (it's free to use while it's in beta - I'm not sure when/if it'll come out of beta) and then Handbrake to covert it to .mp4/.m4v to be able to run it off my plex server.

A bluray movie is usually around 24GB; putting it through handbrake can bring them down to about 1/4th or 1/5th the size depending on settings you use (I use the HQ 1080p preset for bluray movies and then I set the Encoder Preset to VerySlow. It usually takes around 1-1.5 hours at this speed to put a bluray movie through Handbrake with my 5900X). I just ripped a bluray movie last night, the .mkv file was around 27GB, the .m4v file is around 6.5GB

Looks like an UHD movie can take upwards of 45GB. If transcoding it through handbrake brings it down at least 1/4th the size then you're looking at around 11-12GB.

I guess it depends on how much space you have for data storage. You could leave the file in .mkv format or take the time to compress it through handbrake. Since Plex isn't setup to read .mkv files so I have to convert them to .mp4/m4v. I've got just shy of 1000 movies and 35 complete TV series all taking up around 4TB of space. If they were left in .mkv format I would need around 16TB of space.

If you want to use MakeMKV you can find it here: https://makemkv.com/
Here's a direct link to the free temporary registration key while it's in beta (the key usually lasts 2-3 months, then you'll have to come back to this link and get the updated key): https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1053

 

[Prima.Vera]

I still watch 4K Blu-Ray, for the simple reason that their quality is 2 or 3 times better than the compressed junk you get with Amazon, Netflix, etc. Plus I like to own my own movies on physical media.
And yes, I have an optical drive, also a dedicated 4K Blu-Ray player.