Tweaked i5 12400F meets tweaked 5600X!

[Taraquin]

Got my i5 12400F and a Asus B660m K a few days ago and did a comparison:

Due to locked SA voltage (0.95V) I can`t run more than 3600 ram in gear 1 (using Silentiumpc fera 5 cooler) on 12400F atm, expect 3400-3700 gear 1 depending on bin. With stock cooler you will get 100MHz lower ram OC since SA is more stable at lower temps. I could only get 3500 stable with stock cooler. A 12100F with aio may do 3800 in gear 1 due to low temp, a 12700F would probably struggle with 3400 on a poor cooler.

I downclocked ram on 5600X and set timings identical where i could to compare.
Timings: 1.42V: 15-19-19-34 - rc 53 - rrds\l\faw 4\4\16 - wr\rtp 12\6 - wtrs\l 3\6 - rfc 512 - refi 65536, refi can`t be adjusted on 5600X, sets itself to 14000-ish. I lowered rfc to 496 and wr\rtp to 10\5 to compensate on 5600X.

5600X runs +200PBO + curve optimizer of 4x-30 and 2x-29 and stock 76W PPT, I could have run 88W which is bios max, but it only yields 200 points and heat/noise/efficiency is not good. Allcore speed on Ryzen is 4.6GHz, single is 4.85GHz.
12400F runs no powerlimit and 15mv undervolt, allcore speed is 4GHz. Single is 4.4GHz.

Aida:

Easy win for 12400F, superior on R\W\C and slightly better latency.
Edit: Aida is a bit bugged on 12400F, will rerun with newer version.

Cinebench R23:

Easy win once more, 1000 points higher while consuming 71W vs ryzen 76W.
Edit: A update for win10 improved 5600X scores to 11850.

SOTTR, look at CPU game avg\min, this is what FPS CPU is capable of:

On avg identical, but 12400F shows nearly 10% higher min fps.

BUT my 5600X can run ram at 4000\2000 fclk and this gives it an advantage:

Edit: After adjusting VDD18 volt from 1.8 to 1.88v SOTTR gets 267fps avg cpu game and aida gets 51.7ns latency.

Temps:
5600X with D15 and +200 pbo I get up to 67C in games and 72C in CB23. Running stock cooler I get temps around 75C in games and 80C in CB23, performance is a bit lower at 76W limit vs D15 since higher temps raises consumption (clocks in CB23 runs 200MHz slower allcorebdue to temp, games perform similar) .

12400F stock cooler runs up to 67C in games and 82C in CB23 using 76W. With Silentiumpc fera 5 it runs up to 54C in games and 64C in CB23 using 72W. With D15 you could shave of 5-10C in both scenarios.

Wrap-up:
I paid a total of 450usd for 5600X+GB B550 S2H and a total of 340usd for 12400F+Asus B660m K. With that price 12400F is the bang for bucks winner, but 5600X is cheaper now.

12400F pros:
- Faster in prendering
- Runs cooler
- Cheap (220usd where I live)
- Possible to upgrade to Raptor lake on B660 MB
- If you buy a Asus Rog B660 F or G DDR5 you can bclk oc and run 12400F at 5-5.3GHz. Costs rises by 120usd for MB and 50usd for cheap 2x8 5200 DDR5, but performance can be 20% better.
Cons:
- Poor ram OC in grar 1 due to locked SA voltage (0.89-0.98v depending on CPU, mine is stuck around 0.95V)
- Expensive B660 motherboards, cheapest atm costs 140usd here
- You need a better cooler to improve ram oc

5600X pros:
- A bit faster in games (1-2% stock, 5-10% tweaked with pbo, co and ram 3800+)
- Better at file extraction
- B450 (60usd) and B550 (85usd) motherboards are cheap
Cons:
- Costs more (280usd)
- Dead end upgradewise

Overall I prefer 5600X since it costs about the same but perform a bit better, especially when tweaked. If I could overclock ram to 4000+ in gear 1 on 12400F it would have been the winner. A month from now R5 5600 launches. It will cost 220usd and perform about the same as 12400F due to 200MHz lower clocks vs 5600X. That will be my go to budget champ then.

There is the scenario of getting a Asus B660 strix F or G for 260usd and a cheap 2x8 DDR5 for 180usd (130usd for 2x8 B-die), performance will then be around 15% above 12400F running DDR4 tuned and 5-10% above 5600X tuned. Here is a summary from gaming using very fast DDR5 (costs much more) which will make it around 20% faster than DDR4 12400F and 10% faster than 5600X tuned.

 

[WHDS]

Thanks for the comparison!

 

[Fouquin]

Huh, I coincidentally run nearly the same PBO, but am at 3200 CL16 on my 5600X. Score 11942 on R23 with all my other junk running in the back. Maybe better cooling, but yeah your score there seemed a bit low.

Still very impressed with Intel for attacking so hard at the mid-range. It's awesome to see such strong competition back and forth again. This is what we needed.

 

[Taraquin]

Huh, I coincidentally run nearly the same PBO, but am at 3200 CL16 on my 5600X. Score 11942 on R23 with all my other junk running in the back. Maybe better cooling, but yeah your score there seemed a bit low.

Still very impressed with Intel for attacking so hard at the mid-range. It's awesome to see such strong competition back and forth again. This is what we needed.

You probably have higher powerlimit, this was done with 76W PPT. Max my MB does with PBO is 88W, that gives me 4.7GHz allcore and 300 points more, I can also run 4.8@1.32V allcore (this disables the 88W limit in bios) and get close to 12000, but that uses 115W+ and is not worth it in my opinion

Ram tuning has nothing to say in CB, but very much in aida and SOTTR

 

[Taraquin]

This is disapointing! SA-voltage is stuck at 0.9-0.96V if you run at locked CPU. This will allow for 3400-3733 OC in gear 1, in many cases you can`t even get 3600 stable. Shame on you Intel. Unless they change this and make it possible to increase SA-voltage I would say that 5600X is a better deal since almost all of them can run ram at 3800 or higher without problems.

From MSI internal test, so far the result is as below,
*All result is done by MP CPU, QS CPU might have inconsistent result as MP CPU*

• Non-K + B chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
• Non-K + Z chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
• K + B chipset = can increase VCCSA (This scenario was not confirmed by Intel, but so far it worked)
• K + Z chipset = can increase VCCSA

MSI's Latest Z690 & B660 Motherboard BIOS Improves Intel Alder Lake Non-K Memory Compatibility (wccftech.com)

 

[Taraquin]

Just updated to 1013 beta bios, it now applies gear 2 by default on 3600 :\ I can manually set gear 1, but 3700 or higher don`t work.

I tested SOTTR and aida with my 5600X running 4000 with rev E timings (16-20-20-40-60, 560 rfc) and I got 250fps avg cpu game vs 240fps on 12400F so in SOTTR I get 4% more fps once tuned.

I installed a new tower cooler on the 12400F and temp in CB dropped from 82C to 62C max. Powerconsumption dropped by 5W. Also ram at 3600 became 100% stable after getting some rare crashes using sotck cooler if temp exceeded 65C+ (typically loading games), now cooler never exceeds 55C loading games, this helps on ram stability as system agent is more stable at lower temps.

 

[Taraquin]

Test results changed. I no longer recommend 12400F due to 5600X dropping in price and no resolve for low ram speed in gear 1. 12400F is still a good CPU, but expensive B660 MBs + locked SA voltage making ram in gear 1 stuck at 3400-3700 makes 5600X a better choice in my opinion. When 5600 arrives at 60-80usd less 12400F becomes inferior due to motherboard costs :/

A scenario where 12400F becomes a lot faster is paying 170usd more and getting a Asus B660 strix F and cheap 2x8 DDR5 and bclk overclock. That might be worth it, but I would recommend AIO cooler then which adds 50-100usd to the budget.

 

[Taraquin]

Asus released bios 1201, it did help on ram oc, I can no run ram stable at 3700cl15-19-19 1t. 3800 almost worked, slightly unstable.

 

[ratirt]

Got my i5 12400F and a Asus B660m K a few days ago and did a comparison:

Due to locked SA voltage (0.95V) I can`t run more than 3600 ram in gear 1 (using Silentiumpc fera 5 cooler) on 12400F atm, expect 3400-3700 gear 1 depending on bin. With stock cooler you will get 100MHz lower ram OC since SA is more stable at lower temps. I could only get 3500 stable with stock cooler. A 12100F with aio may do 3800 in gear 1 due to low temp, a 12700F would probably struggle with 3400 on a poor cooler.

I downclocked ram on 5600X and set timings identical where i could to compare.
Timings: 1.42V: 15-19-19-34 - rc 53 - rrds\l\faw 4\4\16 - wr\rtp 12\6 - wtrs\l 3\6 - rfc 512 - refi 65536, refi can`t be adjusted on 5600X, sets itself to 14000-ish. I lowered rfc to 496 and wr\rtp to 10\5 to compensate on 5600X.

5600X runs +200PBO + curve optimizer of 4x-30 and 2x-29 and stock 76W PPT, I could have run 88W which is bios max, but it only yields 200 points and heat/noise/efficiency is not good. Allcore speed on Ryzen is 4.6GHz, single is 4.85GHz.
12400F runs no powerlimit and 15mv undervolt, allcore speed is 4GHz. Single is 4.4GHz.

Aida:
View attachment 232474
View attachment 232475
Easy win for 12400F, superior on R\W\C and slightly better latency.
Edit: Aida is a bit bugged on 12400F, will rerun with newer version.

Cinebench R23:
View attachment 232476
View attachment 232477
Easy win once more, 1000 points higher while consuming 71W vs ryzen 76W.
Edit: A update for win10 improved 5600X scores to 11850.

SOTTR, look at CPU game avg\min, this is what FPS CPU is capable of:
View attachment 232478View attachment 232479
On avg identical, but 12400F shows nearly 10% higher min fps.

BUT my 5600X can run ram at 4000\2000 fclk and this gives it an advantage:
View attachment 232473
View attachment 232483
Edit: After adjusting VDD18 volt from 1.8 to 1.88v SOTTR gets 267fps avg cpu game and aida gets 51.7ns latency.

Temps:
5600X with D15 and +200 pbo I get up to 67C in games and 72C in CB23. Running stock cooler I get temps around 75C in games and 80C in CB23, performance is a bit lower at 76W limit vs D15 since higher temps raises consumption (clocks in CB23 runs 200MHz slower allcorebdue to temp, games perform similar) .

12400F stock cooler runs up to 67C in games and 82C in CB23 using 76W. With Silentiumpc fera 5 it runs up to 54C in games and 64C in CB23 using 72W. With D15 you could shave of 5-10C in both scenarios.

Wrap-up:
I paid a total of 450usd for 5600X+GB B550 S2H and a total of 340usd for 12400F+Asus B660m K. With that price 12400F is the bang for bucks winner, but 5600X is cheaper now.

12400F pros:
- Faster in prendering
- Runs cooler
- Cheap (220usd where I live)
- Possible to upgrade to Raptor lake on B660 MB
- If you buy a Asus Rog B660 F or G DDR5 you can bclk oc and run 12400F at 5-5.3GHz. Costs rises by 120usd for MB and 50usd for cheap 2x8 5200 DDR5, but performance can be 20% better.
Cons:
- Poor ram OC in grar 1 due to locked SA voltage (0.89-0.98v depending on CPU, mine is stuck around 0.95V)
- Expensive B660 motherboards, cheapest atm costs 140usd here
- You need a better cooler to improve ram oc

5600X pros:
- A bit faster in games (1-2% stock, 5-10% tweaked with pbo, co and ram 3800+)
- Better at file extraction
- B450 (60usd) and B550 (85usd) motherboards are cheap
Cons:
- Costs more (280usd)
- Dead end upgradewise

Overall I prefer 5600X since it costs about the same but perform a bit better, especially when tweaked. If I could overclock ram to 4000+ in gear 1 on 12400F it would have been the winner. A month from now R5 5600 launches. It will cost 220usd and perform about the same as 12400F due to 200MHz lower clocks vs 5600X. That will be my go to budget champ then.

There is the scenario of getting a Asus B660 strix F or G for 260usd and a cheap 2x8 DDR5 for 180usd (130usd for 2x8 B-die), performance will then be around 15% above 12400F running DDR4 tuned and 5-10% above 5600X tuned. Here is a summary from gaming using very fast DDR5 (costs much more) which will make it around 20% faster than DDR4 12400F and 10% faster than 5600X tuned.
View attachment 239910

Not bad but you could have used 5600 non-x which is cheaper and performs similar to 5600x. Also, why would you lock 5600x's memory to 3600? just because 12400f cant with that frequency, it does not mean the 5600x should not go if you can. It would give boost to performance.
Nice comparison though

 

[Taraquin]

Not bad but you could have used 5600 non-x which is cheaper and performs similar to 5600x. Also, why would you lock 5600x's memory to 3600? just because 12400f cant with that frequency, it does not mean the 5600x should not go if you can. It would give boost to performance.
Nice comparison though

It was to compare IPC, but as I said, running ram tuned at 3800-4000 makes 5600X superior I posted a screenshot of 5600X running ram at 4000 and outperforming 12400F quite a bit.

I don't have the 5600 non-x, but it will typically be 1-3% slower so basically on pair with 12400F. I would generally prefer 5600 in that case since they cost about the same, but a cheap B450 motherboard is 60usd cheaper here than B660.

 

[ratirt]

It was to compare IPC, but as I said, running ram tuned at 3800-4000 makes 5600X superior I posted a screenshot of 5600X running ram at 4000 and outperforming 12400F quite a bit.

I don't have the 5600 non-x, but it will typically be 1-3% slower so basically on pair with 12400F. I would generally prefer 5600 in that case since they cost about the same, but a cheap B450 motherboard is 60usd cheaper here than B660.

Yeah It does depend which mobo you go with the 5600. b350 also would do but probably during the time you were testing, it was not available.
The ram frequency has a huge impact on the 5000 series. I got mine 5800x cranked to 3800 CL16 and it was a huge boost from 320014cl. I know there's still more performance. I just dont have time.

 

[AleXXX666]

Thanks for the comparison!

just put side-by-side 5600X@4.8 and stock 12400 in cpu-z multi. and compare the price of motherboard (cheap B450 one, so not the cheapest crap like A-chipsets) vs average B660 mobo. ryzen will be cheaper platform, and demolishes 12400 in multithread lol. for the price of B660G or F and DDR5 especially 32 gb kit you could get 5800X with good B550 mobo and good set of DDR4 lmfao.

 

[Taraquin]

You can get the Asrock B660m Riptide now for about 150-200usd which can bclk overclock to 4.8GHz+. Paired with 3600 G1 tuned B-die and a 40usd+ towercooler this combo will be better than 5600X+pbo/co and 3800 tuned B-die (up to 10% faster). Pricewise B450+5600 will still have a better price/performanceratio.

 

[Athlonite]

Cons:
- Dead end upgrade wise >>> No it's not there's a whole slew of CPU's you can upgrade to from 5700 to 5950 and 5800X3D so certainly not a dead end upgrade wise as you say you could also upgrade the mobo to an X570 version

 

[Taraquin]

Cons:
- Dead end upgrade wise >>> No it's not there's a whole slew of CPU's you can upgrade to from 5700 to 5950 and 5800X3D so certainly not a dead end upgrade wise as you say you could also upgrade the mobo to an X570 version

Sure, but a B660 will get you further with Raptor lake. 5800X3D however will keep you going for years

 

[AleXXX666]

It was to compare IPC, but as I said, running ram tuned at 3800-4000 makes 5600X superior I posted a screenshot of 5600X running ram at 4000 and outperforming 12400F quite a bit.

I don't have the 5600 non-x, but it will typically be 1-3% slower so basically on pair with 12400F. I would generally prefer 5600 in that case since they cost about the same, but a cheap B450 motherboard is 60usd cheaper here than B660.

12400 still has 18 MB L3, 5600 series have 32 MB. Now I understand, that cache still matters, as it was with L2 back in times lol. Funny like Intel are skimping on it lol

Cons:
- Dead end upgrade wise >>> No it's not there's a whole slew of CPU's you can upgrade to from 5700 to 5950 and 5800X3D so certainly not a dead end upgrade wise as you say you could also upgrade the mobo to an X570 version

and LGA 1700 will support ONLY one extra generation lol.