LGA1700 Upgrade path vs jumping ship to AM5

[Not4ce]

For starters my rig is:

Mobo: MSI Pro B660M-A DDR4
Ram: Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600 C18
Cpu: 12400F
GPU: 6800XT (Primary) / 3070

Just wanted to get the opinion of you guys on this before I spend 300-500$

Now as much as I love this alder lake chip, kinda bummed how intel mobos only last 2 gens. I dont do any multi-threaded work/have no need for high core count cpus for production load. This PC is strictly for gaming use and a hobby. The 12400F has been an excellent CPU and I have 0 complaints with it, infact its probably the best sub 200$ cpu I have had the pleasure of owning

My plan was: slap a 13600K if i ever need a cpu uplift. I mainly love emulation, and IPC improvements go a long way, the frame time consistency and caching stutter reduction from 10400 to 12400 was massive for RPCS3/Cemu. I dont plan on OCing and I wanted a 13500, but that uses alder lake chips. Most emulators really use 10ish threads well, so 6C/12T is fine, I wasnt looking at i7s or 7700xs yet. Not really worried about the E cores as such, but if I upgrade I wanted the newer cores.

I also dont play comp games, so no need for 400 fps on CSGO etc, however, I did consider a 4080 much later since the current pricing is absurd to me. This is relevant, because of RT, which in my experience heavily impacts CPU perf. 10400F on cyberpunk/spiderman kinda struggled with RT, but 12400 does a much better, so any CPU purchase would be for emulation and possible RT improvements. But in saying that, the RT part isnt as important, I honestly think its kinda useless in 90% of games and isn't a main decider here

Now, I am not sure if spending money on a K sku just for raptor lake cores is the smartest idea on my B660 board. What did you guys think? I was thinking just buying the next platform from Intel and a "X90 or 70/Oc" board might be smarter. This is where the choice of AM5 comes in, since AM4 basically lasted 4+ years

I know some people might say: if you dont need it, why consider? Firstly, because I will not be paying MSRP and there are sales and bundles quite often. And secondly I don't upgrade annually, If I figure this out now, I know which sales to keep an eye for, such as looking at AM5 bundles vs grabbing that 13600k down the line

So my choices are:

1: Slap a 13600K; but im def not spending more on a z690. This is my initial though since I mainly care for the raptor core + IPC gains

2: Get AM5 and a 7600X/Zen 4 cpu and have a longer upgrade path. I usually upgrade my cpu every 2-3 years, and I might get 2 cpu upgrades out of AM5 but I hate to speculate mobo lifespan

3: Hold for now, and just get the next intel socket and do a fresh mobo + cpu upgrade


I like the idea of AM5 but theyre a lot pickier with ram and it forces a DDR5 ram upgrade. Kinda annoyed at 6000mhz cl30 prices which was another reason I considered staying on LGA1700 for a while longer with 13600K.

Let me know what you guys thought was the smartest choice here

 

[Outback Bronze]

Hi mate,

You have a pretty neat set up. I would honestly leave it until next gen unless you find a really cheap RL (raptor lake) cpu that your happy with down the road.

RL doesn't have any IPC gains over Alder Lake. If it does have any IPC gains, they are negligible. Its only clock speeds and higher memory speeds and probably more so on DDR5.

Now as much as I love this alder lake chip, kinda bummed how intel mobos only last 2 gens.

Yes, this does suck but apparently there is going to be a RL refresh so maybe hold out on the 13600K until then and see what the refresh brings to the table.

Sure, you can go AMD but I would hold onto that 12400F for a while until you're really ready to upgrade. Then you can make a more informed decision.

Don't think you will have any issues running a 4080 with that CPU either especially as resolution goes up.

Cheers.

 

[Space Lynx]

For starters my rig is:

Mobo: MSI Pro B660M-A DDR4
Ram: Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600 C18
Cpu: 12400F
GPU: 6800XT (Primary) / 3070

Just wanted to get the opinion of you guys on this before I spend 300-500$

Now as much as I love this alder lake chip, kinda bummed how intel mobos only last 2 gens. I dont do any multi-threaded work/have no need for high core count cpus for production load. This PC is strictly for gaming use and a hobby. The 12400F has been an excellent CPU and I have 0 complaints with it, infact its probably the best sub 200$ cpu I have had the pleasure of owning

My plan was: slap a 13600K if i ever need a cpu uplift. I mainly love emulation, and IPC improvements go a long way, the frame time consistency and caching stutter reduction from 10400 to 12400 was massive for RPCS3/Cemu. I dont plan on OCing and I wanted a 13500, but that uses alder lake chips. Most emulators really use 10ish threads well, so 6C/12T is fine, I wasnt looking at i7s or 7700xs yet. Not really worried about the E cores as such, but if I upgrade I wanted the newer cores.

I also dont play comp games, so no need for 400 fps on CSGO etc, however, I did consider a 4080 much later since the current pricing is absurd to me. This is relevant, because of RT, which in my experience heavily impacts CPU perf. 10400F on cyberpunk/spiderman kinda struggled with RT, but 12400 does a much better, so any CPU purchase would be for emulation and possible RT improvements. But in saying that, the RT part isnt as important, I honestly think its kinda useless in 90% of games and isn't a main decider here

Now, I am not sure if spending money on a K sku just for raptor lake cores is the smartest idea on my B660 board. What did you guys think? I was thinking just buying the next platform from Intel and a "X90 or 70/Oc" board might be smarter. This is where the choice of AM5 comes in, since AM4 basically lasted 4+ years

I know some people might say: if you dont need it, why consider? Firstly, because I will not be paying MSRP and there are sales and bundles quite often. And secondly I don't upgrade annually, If I figure this out now, I know which sales to keep an eye for, such as looking at AM5 bundles vs grabbing that 13600k down the line

So my choices are:

1: Slap a 13600K; but im def not spending more on a z690. This is my initial though since I mainly care for the raptor core + IPC gains

2: Get AM5 and a 7600X/Zen 4 cpu and have a longer upgrade path. I usually upgrade my cpu every 2-3 years, and I might get 2 cpu upgrades out of AM5 but I hate to speculate mobo lifespan

3: Hold for now, and just get the next intel socket and do a fresh mobo + cpu upgrade


I like the idea of AM5 but theyre a lot pickier with ram and it forces a DDR5 ram upgrade. Kinda annoyed at 6000mhz cl30 prices which was another reason I considered staying on LGA1700 for a while longer with 13600K.

Let me know what you guys thought was the smartest choice here

Honestly keep what you have. That is a good setup and combo. You really won't notice much difference. Remember, all of these benchmarks you look at on TPU and elsewhere are done with a rtx 4090 gpu... when you have a normal gpu like a 6800 xt, you won't notice much difference at all in games by cpu upgrades. (12400f is still a really good CPU and pairs well with 6800 XT, keep what you have and stack your money for a rainy day)

 

[ir_cow]

I would leave it unless you have money to burn. the 12400F is holding you back, but you could just get a 13600K and be good for that GPU.

 

[Not4ce]

Hi mate,

You have a pretty neat set up. I would honestly leave it until next gen unless you find a really cheap RL (raptor lake) cpu that your happy with down the road.

RL doesn't have any IPC gains over Alder Lake. If it does have any IPC gains, they are negligible. Its only clock speeds and higher memory speeds and probably more so on DDR5.



Yes, this does suck but apparently there is going to be a RL refresh so maybe hold out on the 13600K until then and see what the refresh brings to the table.

Sure, you can go AMD but I would hold onto that 12400F for a while until you're really ready to upgrade. Then you can make a more informed decision.

Don't think you will have any issues running a 4080 with that CPU either especially as resolution goes up.

Cheers.

Thanks for the reply!

I completely agree with this sentiment. I really like the 6800XT and 12400F combo, I actually do play at higher resolutions and I dont have any issues. I was wondering if I should pull the trigger on a 13600K on a heavy discount, around 30% off, which might be soon-ish due to end of financial year sale but ill pass

But thanks for the common sense. I think ill go option 3 and wait it out for LGA1800/whatever socket intel uses next. I really appreciate not having to worry about ram kits or pay 50% more for 5% improvements with DDR5

In real world usage the 3600mhz cl18 is perfect on Intel and games have good 1% lows. So im feeling AM5 less and less

Honestly keep what you have. That is a good setup and combo. You really won't notice much difference. Remember, all of these benchmarks you look at on TPU and elsewhere are done with a rtx 4090 gpu... when you have a normal gpu like a 6800 xt, you won't notice much difference at all in games by cpu upgrades. (12400f is still a really good CPU and pairs well with 6800 XT, keep what you have and stack your money for a rainy day)

Agreed, I had the same idea but now I deff wont jump on a 13600K deal and waste money. Just upgrading to next platform in a year or two

I would leave it unless you have money to burn. the 12400F is holding you back, but you could just get a 13600K and be good for that GPU.

I dont think the 12400F holds back my 6800XT, maybe youre reffering to the long off 4080? Even then probably not, as i mentioned I dont play FPS games and mainly story driven and possible interest in RT, which is kinda meh anyways

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

But thanks for the common sense. I think ill go option 3 and wait it out for LGA1800/whatever socket intel uses next. I really appreciate not having to worry about ram kits or pay 50% more for 5% improvements with DDR5

Wait it out and see what Intel and AMD have to offer. Too many people stick with one brand.

Edit: the next socket will drop DDR4 support IIRC.

 

[Lost_Troll]

Edit: the next socket will drop DDR4 support IIRC.

100% correct with DDR5-6400 being the base speed for the LGA1851 socket.

I would not change a thing for now and wait until you start to feel the slow down with your system in the next few years, then upgrade the whole system. That is what I am planning to do for the core components but will probably upgrade the video card first before any thing else.

 

[Not4ce]

Wait it out and see what Intel and AMD have to offer. Too many people stick with one brand.

Edit: the next socket will drop DDR4 support IIRC.

Well im impartial to both intel and amd. I couldnt care less what I have, as long as it performs well. I used to have a 5600X + mobo which I sold off after I got my 12400F that generally performed a lot better for me

But yes, agreed, I think it makes more sense to not waste money and just focus on a whole system change in a year when DDR5 becomes cheaper, instead of wondering "how much does a cheaper 13600k upgrade help"

DDR5-6400 being the base speed for the LGA1851 socket.

Oh is that a fact? Could you please link the source?

I would not change a thing for now and wait until you start to feel the slow down with your system in the next few years, then upgrade the whole system. That is what I am planning to do for the core components but will probably upgrade the video card first before any thing else.

Yea agreed, I was thinking of a possible GPU upgrade, the 12400F has been flawless and I mainly play at 1440P-4K anyways. I was mainly thinking of 0.1% lows here. Now I'll be doing a late LGA1851/AM5 swap with DDR5 + CPU swap. Dont really need a faster GPU but frame generation is what really piqued my interest, but with the current 4080 prices? no thanks. Maybe a full change when RDNA 4 or Nvidias 5000 series come out



But thanks to everyone that chipped in with their thoughts

Sometimes you get tempted to upgrade when you see deals, but in my case, it'll be pointless to jump this early and saving up is just smarter as these newer techs mature (Ray tracing, DDR5, Frame Gen, Pcie gen 5, obscenely high tdp gpus)

 

[ir_cow]

100% correct with DDR5-6400 being the base speed for the LGA1851 socket.

Intel confirms this is the next socket, but nothing about the memory speed. https://www.techpowerup.com/302318/intel-confirms-lga1851-is-its-next-desktop-cpu-socket

 

[oxrufiioxo]

There is suppose to be a raptorlake refresh with supposedly decent gains.

I feel Am5 would be too costly vs going with somthing like a 14600k assuming intel doesn't require a new socket for it but I guess given their track record who knows.

Maybe wait for Zen5 before making a decision.

 

[Assimilator]

Maybe wait for Zen5 before making a decision.

This is basically where I'm at right now. My current Zen 3 system cost me a lot less for a lot more than a corresponding Zen 4 system would, and I honestly don't see any benefit in Zen 5 since there's nothing PCIe 5.0 available yet.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

I was mainly thinking of 0.1% lows here

Then I would suggest looking hard at an X3D model, when you do decide to upgrade.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Seems to obvious to get 13 series chip if you have the upgrade bug they are coming down in price isn't that why you got a lowball 12 series chip ?
Anything else seems like e-waste.

 

[Taisho]

Your setup is very balanced, especially for 1440p. Just make sure you're running your DDR in gear 1 because not all Alder Lakes are capable of stable 3600 MT/s gear 1, so I'm moderately suspicious.

Upgrades are not worth the money and headaches. Just wait for Arrow Lake in the 2nm process, it's going to make all previous CPUs obsolete. The K variants of Raptor Lake are actually good thanks to significantly more cache but are also disgustingly overvolted by default, which results in high power draw and temps compared to Alder Lake. Especially on B660 chips is very problematic atm, as any underclocking seems to completely cripple CPU performance. AM5 has 25-45s boot times even with "memory context restore" enabled which reportedly causes instability. No thanks. I have 6-8s last BIOS time on my 10400.

 

[Not4ce]

There is suppose to be a raptorlake refresh with supposedly decent gains.

I feel Am5 would be too costly vs going with somthing like a 14600k assuming intel doesn't require a new socket for it but I guess given their track record who knows.

Maybe wait for Zen5 before making a decision.

Well I really hope arrow Lake is supported, I have a feeling Intel's just going with a new platform which is why I went down this line of thought. But yea either intel or Am5 for x3d. The 12400F is insane value, and I got mine for 100$ usd (180aud)

Hi,
Seems to obvious to get 13 series chip if you have the upgrade bug they are coming down in price isn't that why you got a lowball 12 series chip ?
Anything else seems like e-waste.

I went 12th gen as it was half as expensive as the 5600x I had, and honestly, just a lot less headaches. Anything else being "e-waste" Is a very strong statement....any of these alder lake chips are great on a 2nd pc

As @Outback Bronze mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a huge IPC gain with raptor lake, and I was mainly looking at IPC improvements for emulators. YouTube benchmarks on rpcs3 with 13600k isn't that much faster, specially because I can enable avx512 on my chip, which wasn't fused off

Your setup is very balanced, especially for 1440p. Just make sure you're running your DDR in gear 1 because not all Alder Lakes are capable of stable 3600 MT/s gear 1, so I'm moderately suspicious.

Upgrades are not worth the money and headaches. Just wait for Arrow Lake in the 2nm process, it's going to make all previous CPUs obsolete. The K variants of Raptor Lake are actually good thanks to significantly more cache but are also disgustingly overvolted by default, which results in high power draw and temps compared to Alder Lake. Especially on B660 chips is very problematic atm, as any underclocking seems to completely cripple CPU performance. AM5 has 25-45s boot times even with "memory context restore" enabled which reportedly causes instability. No thanks. I have 6-8s last BIOS time on my 10400.

How to get the best out of my ram at a safe timing...

www.overclock.net

My chip is a sk hynix chip on the lpx 3600 pair, which is apparently middle tier from my googling. I have never OCd ram which sounds like a headache

On xmp the sticks run at 3600 18-22-22-42 no problem, but I've heard changing that to Gear 1 can cause issues for others on 12400f due locked SA voltage. Everything has been on auto so far

So im confused, are you saying use gear 1 and xmp timings? Or don't use it, since it doesn't work for some?

Im happy to try minor ram tweaks, but really not interested in testing speeds, clocks and setrings for hours and doing long stability tests

if you/anyone had advice on a ram setting that i needed to change, for some perf gain, without needing to do hours of stability testing id be quite happy to try those

Ive never dabbled in ram ocing before but id rather buy a better pair than mess around for hours for 1-2% perf gain if my current sticks are just ass

Also agreed. My boot time went from 15 to 8.8 with alder lake, I had an asrock b450 and I've had very weird and an overall poor experience with Zen 3, including usb stutter and random annoyances

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Arrow lake definitely won't be lga 1700 but it sounds like Meteorlake will probably be a bust for desktop I guess we will see.

Assuming Raptorlake refresh is decent and not on a new socket it could hold you over 2-3 years.

 

[Taisho]

TestMem5 is a few minutes long RAM test stressful for memory controller. It should catch instabilities from working in gear 1, though I heard of cases when people couldn't even boot 3600 MT/s gear 1 Alder. I didn't have any RAM timing modifications in mind. If 3600 gear 1 is not stable, you can try something like 3466. It will outperform 3600 gear 2 in every scenario.

 

[Not4ce]

TestMem5 is a few minutes long RAM test stressful for memory controller. It should catch instabilities from working in gear 1, though I heard of cases when people couldn't even boot 3600 MT/s gear 1 Alder. I didn't have any RAM timing modifications in mind. If 3600 gear 1 is not stable, you can try something like 3466. It will outperform 3600 gear 2 in every scenario.

Hey a quick update for you

1: B660M-A has unlocked SA voltage, on my bios ver: 7D43v1A it had "manual override" alongside automatic

2: Im now using 3600mhz cl18 gear 1:1, stable no issues at 1.25 Sa volt

3: 1% lows are a lot better, and in games like cyberpunk at 4K high (fsr2.1) my lows went from 61fps to 68 and averages improved by 1-2fps

Overall very happy, I always wanted to run the kit at gear 1, but I read some posts where people said SA volt was locked, so obv that has changed for this, and Ive heard some asus boards also have unlocked SA for non-K cpu now. Thanks for reminding me, which is why I even checked my bios, otherwise I wouldve been stuck at Gear 2 and subpar perf, so appreciate the heads up

Ive attached some bechmarks as well, stuff has generally improved by around 5% in benchmarks which is nicer to look at for the lols i guess

In timespy ive also bumped up from 16.9 - 17.6k, obv graphics score was same, but cpu score went from 8.8 - 9.6k

 

[AusWolf]

IMO, hold on to your setup as long as it serves your needs. Just because something new has been released, it doesn't mean you have a reason to upgrade.

Drawing the line between needs and wants is a useful skill these days.

 

[Lei]

So why an AM5?
If you wait for next intel socket. It will last for 14 and 15 gen.
Then AM5 will end in 2025. Then there's intel in 2026.

So, should u get the last CPU that AMD offers for AM5 in 2025, or wait an extra year?

I don't like choosing my cpu based on socket. It's like choosing a gpu based on the dimensions chassis supports.

 

[Not4ce]

IMO, hold on to your setup as long as it serves your needs. Just because something new has been released, it doesn't mean you have a reason to upgrade.

Drawing the line between needs and wants is a useful skill these days.

Oh I absolutely agree with that

Maybe you missed the other post above, after getting some input, I've decided to skip the cpu upgrades

Since all the upgrades would be very minimal, specially for the 1% lows I was after. Ill be waiting for Arrow Lake/am5 x3d release to see how the competition fares, it also lines up with my 2-3 yearly upgrade cycle

So why an AM5?
If you wait for next intel socket. It will last for 14 and 15 gen.
Then AM5 will end in 2025. Then there's intel in 2026.

So, should u get the last CPU that AMD offers for AM5 in 2025, or wait an extra year?

I don't like choosing my cpu based on socket. It's like choosing a gpu based on the dimensions chassis supports.

I was thinking just buying the next platform from Intel and a "X90 or 70/Oc" board might be smarter. This is where the choice of AM5 comes in, since AM4 basically lasted 4+ years

My plan was: slap a 13600K if i ever need a cpu uplift. I mainly love emulation, and IPC improvements go a long way, the frame time consistency and caching stutter reduction from 10400 to 12400 was massive for RPCS3/Cemu

So If you read my post, you'll see why I mentioned am5. X3D and 1% lows was the reason

Also for emulation, moving a gen and going from 50 fps to stable 60 is a game changer

I've had very mixed experiences with Am4 and 5600x which I ended up selling, but I'll buy whatever provides the best value on the market

I don't like choosing my cpu based on socket. It's like choosing a gpu based on the dimensions chassis supports.

....not picking cpu based on socket, picking cpu based on best single threaded/ipc uplift gen on gen

Cpu on sales for a current socket will eventually become 30-40% off at end of life, which is a great way of improving emulation speed

 

[ThrashZone]

I went 12th gen as it was half as expensive as the 5600x I had, and honestly, just a lot less headaches. Anything else being "e-waste" Is a very strong statement....any of these alder lake chips are great on a 2nd pc

Hi,
E-waste is anything you bought at release price and try to sell used
You'd never get anything close to purchase price or parting out existing cpu/ mother board for a new amd board and cpu and use remaining gear/ case...
So knowing you'd keep both system gets rid of the e-waste but you never said anything about wanting two rigs just next gen chip or bail and go amd which I stated next gen chip is way less e-waste.

So it all depends on how hard the upgrade bug bites lol
Hell I have three desktops all are using the orginal cpu's I started with except one and all have cpu next gen upgrades available still so yeah I get what you're asking but just depends on how deep your pockets are

 

[dgianstefani]

Hi,
E-waste is anything you bought at release price and try to sell used
You'd never get anything close to purchase price or parting out existing cpu/ mother board for a new amd board and cpu and use remaining gear/ case...
So knowing you'd keep both system gets rid of the e-waste but you never said anything about wanting two rigs just next gen chip or bail and go amd which I stated next gen chip is way less e-waste.

So it all depends on how hard the upgrade bug bites lol
Hell I have three desktops all are using the orginal cpu's I started with except one and all have cpu next gen upgrades available still so yeah I get what you're asking but just depends on how deep your pockets are

Tell that to the 3070 FE I bought for £450 on release, used for a year, then sold to a miner for £900.

Oh I absolutely agree with that

Maybe you missed the other post above, after getting some input, I've decided to skip the cpu upgrades

Since all the upgrades would be very minimal, specially for the 1% lows I was after. Ill be waiting for Arrow Lake/am5 x3d release to see how the competition fares, it also lines up with my 2-3 yearly upgrade cycle





So If you read my post, you'll see why I mentioned am5. X3D and 1% lows was the reason

Also for emulation, moving a gen and going from 50 fps to stable 60 is a game changer

I've had very mixed experiences with Am4 and 5600x which I ended up selling, but I'll buy whatever provides the best value on the market


....not picking cpu based on socket, picking cpu based on best single threaded/ipc uplift gen on gen

Cpu on sales for a current socket will eventually become 30-40% off at end of life, which is a great way of improving emulation speed

13600K will do a lot for 0.1% lows even at stock. Tuned, I'd wager you'd almost double them coming from a 12400. The larger L2 cache, faster clocks, additional E cores to run background tasks, etc. Adds up.

With my setup I get 1% lows around 200 FPS and 0.1% around 150, but that's a system wide approach to minimizing latency and bottlenecks.

See if you can snag a nice Raptor Lake refresh chip.

 

[P4-630]

When you upgrade to a raptor lake K /(refresh) CPU, you're good for several years.
Also it's the cheapest way.

 

[ThrashZone]

Tell that to the 3070 FE I bought for £450 on release, used for a year, then sold to a miner for £900.

Hi,
Sure switch to gpu's and miners for an argument well played sir