MSI Doesn't Plan Radeon RX 9000 Series GPUs, Skips AMD RDNA 4 Generation Entirely

[Hecate91]

You mean the data I provided that showed their billions of dollars is sales?

That‘s three times in this thread alone you’ve embarrassed yourself. Keep it up, it’s amusing.

Asus is the largest AIB, all it takes is some simple googling.
However it doesn't matter, anyone should be buying a GPU based on features and price, not the brand on the box.

I just checked the the websites of the big three.

Not a single one of them are offering a current generation AMD GPU.

Why? Because it’s expensive to have multiple suppliers. If MSI doesn’t make it, they don’t sell it.

Nail 3,984 in the Radeon coffin.

What are you referring to as the big three?
Asus has the TUF and Prime models, Gigabyte has the Gaming OC and Aorus Elite. The only one not selling an AMD GPU is MSI.
You didn't even look because the cards are easy to find, you're owning yourself.

ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 9070 XT OC Edition

ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 9070 XT OC offers ultimate durability and cooling performance with military-grade components and a phase change GPU thermal pad.

www.asus.com

ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 9070 XT OC Edition

ASUS Prime Radeon RX 9070 XT OC Edition 16GB GDDR6 features a compact design with three axial-tech fans for supreme cooling.

www.asus.com

Radeon™ RX 9070 XT GAMING OC 16G Key Features | Graphics Card - GIGABYTE Global

window.isNuxtPage = true;Radeon™ RX 9070 XT GAMING OC 16G Key Features | Graphics Card - GIGABYTE Global (function (w, d, s, l, i) { w[l] = w[l] || []; w[l].push({...

www.gigabyte.com

AORUS Radeon™ RX 9070 XT ELITE 16G Key Features | Graphics Card - GIGABYTE Global

window.isNuxtPage = true;AORUS Radeon™ RX 9070 XT ELITE 16G Key Features | Graphics Card - GIGABYTE Global (function (w, d, s, l, i) { w[l] = w[l] || []; w[l].push...

www.gigabyte.com

 

[Dragokar]

I would love to see K|NGP|N at XFX or ASRock for the RX 10k series. (or whatever the new name will be) By the way don't feed the troll I just installed the next 9070 XT since the customer is luckily not dumb enough to pay for a 5070 Ti vaporware card.

 

[evernessince]

Do you have any proof of this or is it just speculation that R&D costs are “minimal” (and define minimal!)?

I already pointed out proof, the fact that other vendors are profitable and there are even more AMD AIBs than Nvidia is a pretty clearly indication. That it's only MSI pretty tells us all we need to know.

My question is, what right do you have to ask for evidence when your original statement carried none? One doesn't need evidence to dismiss your original statement because it was simply baseless but I provided it anyways.

We’ve recently seen generations that used recycled cooler designs (from multiple AIBs). While adequate, those designs have tended to underperform in comparison to their peers. If manufacturers are already pinching Pennies by reusing old coolers, I can’t imagine that‘a a positive indicator for any other step of the product lifecycle.

How in the world does this logical jump even make sense and loop back around to your original point that making AMD GPUs isn't profitable?

So just because a company pinches pennies it somehow means it's no longer profitable to make AMD GPUs? Did you stop to consider for even a nano-second that companies cut costs in a variety of ways for a vast number of reasons as a normal part of business, and that it's certainly not abnormal for them to re-use card designs?

No, I guess that'd make way too much sense.

AMD Marketing Department: “Our GPUs are so shitty even MSI won’t sell them!”.


MSI is the largest OEM PC component manufacturer on the planet. Not a good look to Dell, Lenovo, HP type companies when you lose them.

Are you confusing OEM PCs with PC components? OEM PC components would be replacement parts for off the shelf PCs, not OEM PCs or retail PC parts.

Pretty sure Dell beats the snot out of MSI in regards to the OEM PC replacement parts it sells simply because MSI doesn't sell anywhere near the pre-built system sales as Dell or any of the big manufacturers do.

There's really no data on PC part marketshare either so regardless of which angle you are coming for, it's supposition.

Well, I don't know if motherboards are any different, but I really like the MSI AM4 board I have. Stable, well executed, lots of control with the fans and lots of headers. Can't complain at all.

Honestly surprised anyone would willingly pass on making a GPU of any brand right now. Even the B580 is selling at marked up prices. Why would anyone avoid any part of this market when the products are flying off the shelves?

Exactly, makes no sense to pass up on extra revenue unless you have a knife to your back from Nvidia.

 

[ThomasK]

Likely they were treated like crap so they bailed amd and preferred doing business with a better company like nvidia.

Go ask evga and xfx which company is better to do business with.

You're just another fanboy blindly defending mr. leather jacket. Give us all a break.

 

[john_]

i like MSI, not sure why all the hate. They probably were losing money, that's the one thing that makes sense. Low sales, R&D is expensive. This is on AMD not them

For the last 20 years, Nvidia's business moto is "If you are loyal, we treat you well, if you are not, you are not a priority for us".
They did it with consumers when they where disabling PhysX and CUDA if an AMD card was primary.
They are doing it with AIBs, their GeForce Partner Program prove it and there are numerous cases where Nvidia is said to be using it's strength to limit competition. What Intel was doing 20 years ego, Nvidia is doing it today.

Nvidia allegedly threatening supply limits or even bans for Chinese AIB partners planning to launch Intel Battlemage GPUs - NotebookCheck.net News

Nvidia's AI customers are scared to be seen courting other AI chipmakers for fear of retaliatory shipment delays, says rival firm | Tom's Hardware

Former AMD Radeon boss says NVIDIA is the GPU cartel - VideoCardz.com



....and probably so many other articles if someone decides to start searching about it.

 

[Quicks]

Well we really don't need more overpriced GPU's and MSI and ASUS trying to compete who can charge the highest price for their GPU's can go F straight off.

But for some odd reason here in SA the 9070XT cost about the same as 5070TI so why would anyone bother buying AMD... The GPU market is all screwed up.

I knew AMD will find a way to screw up the prices and the launch of the 9000 series.

AMD Radeon RX 9070 pricing affected by supply, greed and selective rebate system - VideoCardz.com

Higher Radeon RX 9000 pricing reportedly result of AMD’s selective rebates AMD Rebate System, Source: HardwareUnboxed AMD had a larger stock of GPUs at launch. The Radeon RX 9070 series, launched last week, saw much better availability than previous Radeon releases. It was also significantly...

videocardz.com

 

[evernessince]

It makes a lot of sense, you must be an MSI shareholder.
I asked for a source on MSI being the largest AIB motherboard maker, not a PDF of MSI claiming they're the best ever to their investors.

He can't provide one. I've looked too and there is no data on marketshare of individual PC components. He cites MSI's financials as proof but that tells us nothing of marketshare.

The GPP was shut down 7 years ago, it was only around for 2 months. People keep claiming this is for GPP but cant seem to point ot any modern system they'd be using.

More likely to be MSI choosing to drop poor selling AMD cards during a recession.

It wasn't, go and look at the lack of Master, Suprim, etc cards for AMD's 7000 series. The GPP has verbatim already enacted behind the scenes.

Don't think so. Nvidia tried this before with Asus, MSI and Gigabyte. It was super apparent and the backlash was quite intense. It would make no sense whatsoever to do it again but only with MSI.
Considering MSI gradually winded down their business with AMD I think this has more to do with decision making of the higher ups.
Perhaps the death of the CEO of MSI in 2020 had something to do with it as someone else linked in this thread.

Read the paragraph immediately above this one.

I sense schilling going on here. the only reason is profit margins, Nvidia partners have smaller margins vs AMD partners, but likely work out even in the end because of retain price differences.

If anyone has anti-competitive practices its nvidia. GPP redux.

Like seriously, people claiming AMD is the one being anti-competitive towards it's boards partners but say Nvidia is an angel

This isn't your ordinary cognative dissidence, they are either shareholders or shills.

they were reusing because they barely sold any, so it's understandable. AMD shits the bed by not selling any cards, and you blame the AIB's?

You are trying to imply broad profitability issues but there's no evidence that supports that. This is just MSI, all the other board partners don't have this purported issue you are claiming.

 

[Dr. Dro]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I know you want to, but you can't. AMD's anti competitive practices drives aibs away. God knows what they offer to powercolor sapphire etc to only make amd cards.

LOL, anyone with like 2 or 3 neurons to rub together can clearly see that you're throwing that exact same asinine rhetoric (which was always based on feelings, not fact and certainly, not through the lenses of anyone actually running a business) right back and a lot still feel offended by it or think that you're being dead serious

I sense schilling going on here. the only reason is profit margins, Nvidia partners have smaller margins vs AMD partners, but likely work out even in the end because of retain price differences.

If anyone has anti-competitive practices its nvidia. GPP redux.

GPP? Seriously? What's next, "bumpgate"? If you're digging 15+ years in the past to find some dirt, do some introspection

 

[Visible Noise]

What big three? Asus, GB and MSI?

Asus has both Prime and TUF, GB has Gaming and Aorus Elite for their 9070s. Only MSI bitched out.

Dell, HP, Lenovo.

Do try to keep up.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

I already pointed out proof, the fact that other vendors are profitable and there are even more AMD AIBs than Nvidia is a pretty clearly indication. That it's only MSI pretty tells us all we need to know.

My question is, what right do you have to ask for evidence when your original statement carried none? One doesn't need evidence to dismiss your original statement because it was simply baseless but I provided it anyways.



How in the world does this logical jump even make sense and loop back around to your original point that making AMD GPUs isn't profitable?

So just because a company pinches pennies it somehow means it's no longer profitable to make AMD GPUs? Did you stop to consider for even a nano-second that companies cut costs in a variety of ways for a vast number of reasons as a normal part of business, and that it's certainly not abnormal for them to re-use card designs?

No, I guess that'd make way too much sense.



Are you confusing OEM PCs with PC components? OEM PC components would be replacement parts for off the shelf PCs, not OEM PCs or retail PC parts.

Pretty sure Dell beats the snot out of MSI in regards to the OEM PC replacement parts it sells simply because MSI doesn't sell anywhere near the pre-built system sales as Dell or any of the big manufacturers do.

There's really no data on PC part marketshare either so regardless of which angle you are coming for, it's supposition.



Exactly, makes no sense to pass up on extra revenue unless you have a knife to your back from Nvidia.

OR instead of being a conspiracy, they simply didnt sell enough AMD cards to justify the R+D of building new ones. Who do you know is buying MSI AMD cards?

Go ask evga and xfx which company is better to do business with.

You're just another fanboy blindly defending mr. leather jacket. Give us all a break.

Resorting to ad homonyms doesnt really help your point. It's just immature.

XFX got screwed over. EVGA was mismanaged into the ground by a CEO who refused to admit he wanted to retire.

 

[Hecate91]

OR instead of being a conspiracy, they simply didnt sell enough AMD cards to justify the R+D of building new ones. Who do you know is buying MSI AMD cards?

It isn't a conspiracy, MSI AMD cards sucked so no one bought them.
MSI skipping the AMD 9000 series is a dumb mistake now with no supply of Nvidia 50 series cards. The rumor is some AIB's are in trouble because they don't have any 50 series cards to sell.

XFX got screwed over. EVGA was mismanaged into the ground by a CEO who refused to admit he wanted to retire.

EVGA got screwed over badly with the RTX 30 series and having no room for margins at all, they got out at the right time with the 40 series melting power cables.

 

[Visible Noise]

Asus is the largest AIB, all it takes is some simple googling.

Which OEMs use ASUS? All it takes is some simple googling.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

It isn't a conspiracy, MSI AMD cards sucked so no one bought them.
MSI skipping the AMD 9000 series is a dumb mistake now with no supply of Nvidia 50 series cards. The rumor is some AIB's are in trouble because they don't have any 50 series cards to sell.

From a business prospective, why would they continue to invest into a new generation of products if the previous generation didnt sell well? Nobody expected AMD to actually improve their cards. Nvidia's supply issue is temporary, every launch has been like this for a decade.

Everyone says nvidia make no geforce cards and "everything is made for AI"" yet their geforce GPUs, which sell for a fraction the price of their AI GPUs, brought in 17 billion in revenue last year. That is several million GPUs.

EVGA got screwed over badly with the RTX 30 series and having no room for margins at all, they got out at the right time with the 40 series melting power cables.

EVGA vastly overcharged for Ampere just like everybody else. Their CEO cried about "we cant set our own prices because nvidia" but a simple look at their site via wayback machine proved that was a complete lie. If they couldnt figure out how to make margins on a $800 card selling for $1200+ (on their own site, cutting out the middle man) then that is their own fault. Somehow, MSI, gigabyte, asus, ece all figured it out.

Also, for a company that "had no room for margins" they sure liked to invest in making 7 different PCBs and coolers fora single low volume GPU. This is like claiming 2+3=fish.

 

[wNotyarD]

Which OEMs use ASUS? All it takes is some simple googling.

Mate, you're the only one here talking OEMs in an AIB article discussion.

 

[Visible Noise]

Mate, you're the only one here talking OEMs in an AIB article discussion.

Ok, so we shouldn’t discuss who buys 90% of GPUs then. Got it. It doesn’t matter to AMD, the only thing that’s important to them is retail consumer sales - not the way 90% of people purchase a GPU.

I understand now. Being excluded from 60% of new PC sales won’t affect AMD at all. The 150+ million PC unit sales that have just been handed completely over to Nvidia don’t matter, because reasons.

 

[wNotyarD]

Ok, so we shouldn’t discuss who buys 90% of GPUs then. Got it. It doesn’t matter to AMD, the only thing that’s important to them is retail consumer sales - not the way 90% of people purchase a GPU.

I understand now. Being excluded from 60% of new PC sales won’t affect AMD at all. The 150+ million PC unit sales that have just been handed completely over to Nvidia don’t matter, because reasons.

Is all of this bad for AMD? Surely.

How does it relate to MSI, which is the core of this thread?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Ok, so we shouldn’t discuss who buys 90% of GPUs then. Got it. It doesn’t matter to AMD, the only thing that’s important to them is retail consumer sales - not the way 90% of people purchase a GPU.

Dell, HP, and lenovo don't buy 90% of dGPUs. The vast majority of their sales come from laptops or desktops that use iGPUs. Only their gaming lines use geforce/radeon cards, and I'd place good money on them being well blow 50% of all dGPU sales.

When it comes to gaming PCs DIY is huge, and boutique builders ship big numbers combined. I cant remember the last time I saw an alienware, Omen, or Legion desktop on a forum....anywhere really.

I understand now. Being excluded from 60% of new PC sales won’t affect AMD at all. The 150+ million PC unit sales that have just been handed completely over to Nvidia don’t matter, because reasons.

Where are you getting these numbers? AMD is excluded? Why is AMD excluded? They make APUs without issue, that is what goes into the vast majority of those OEM sales.

Nvidia isnt selling that many GPUs. Not by a long shot. IF their ENTIRE geforce division was represented by those GPUs, that would be an average of $116 per GPU. Gonna go out on a limb here and say they're not selling that many geforce cards.

 

[maxfly]

And so this, as so many other or more appropriately every GPU thread, has devolved into the "my daddy" peepee match.

Good for a laugh I suppose if you're bored.

 

[Athena]

From a business prospective, why would they continue to invest into a new generation of products if the previous generation didnt sell well? Nobody expected AMD to actually improve their cards. Nvidia's supply issue is temporary, every launch has been like this for a decade.

from a business prospective, you don't go by previous generations, you go by what the specs are currently, and they get per-production units to test, just like every other AIB

in this case, it just looks like MSI is thinking there is more money to be made by going nvidia exclusive for gpus, perhaps thinking nvida will take a notice and offer them more gpus. It's a gamble on their part

the supply issue isn't temporary, it's going to be like this for years, unless Nvidia stops a production line for their higher end GPUs for consumers, and there is no way they will do that

just not enough fabs to make everything to meet demand

 

[Visible Noise]

How does it relate to MSI, which is the core of this thread?

Go back and read my posts again.

HP, and lenovo don't buy 90% of dGPUs. The vast majority of their sales come from laptops or desktops that use iGPUs. Only their gaming lines use geforce/radeon cards, and I'd place good money on them being well blow 50% of all dGPU sales.

Let me introduce you to the Dell Optiplex, Dell Precision, HP Z, and Lenovo Thinkstation, workstations that use dGPUs to do work.

When it comes to gaming PCs DIY is huge, and boutique builders ship big numbers combined. I cant remember the last time I saw an alienware, Omen, or Legion desktop on a forum....anywhere really.

You need to get out of your bubble. DIY is a single digit percentage of the market. I can buy a gaming PC, a gaming monitor and a gaming chair from Costco. What I can’t buy from Costco is a GPU - because the market is too small for them.

I don’t know why you wouldn’t know about Alienware, maybe you should look harder? https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/

Dell alone sold $50 billion of PCs last year.

Where are you getting these numbers? AMD is excluded? Why is AMD excluded? They make APUs without issue, that is what goes into the vast majority of those OEM sales.

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS53061925

AMD is excluded because the big three all buy their GPUs from MSI. If MSI isn’t making AMD GPU’s anymore, then they will not be in any of the big three systems. Just go try find a system from Dell, HP, or Lenovo with a 9070 in it - they aren’t even listed. When your product isn’t even being offered by 70% of the market, you have a problem.

Nvidia isnt selling that many GPUs. Not by a long shot.

Nvidia sold 11 1/2 billion dollars of gaming GPUs last year. That doesn’t include non-gaming GPs like workstation and Provis products.

Take whatever you think Nvidia sells the average GPU chip for and divide that into 11 1/2 billion. I don’t care what numbers you pick. It’s a lot.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say they're not selling that many geforce cards.

Nvidia doesn’t sell cards, they sell GPUs.

 

[wNotyarD]

AMD is excluded because the big three all buy their GPUs from MSI. If MSI isn’t making AMD GPU’s anymore, then they will not be in any of the big three systems. Just go try find a system from Dell, HP, or Lenovo with a 9070 in it - they aren’t even listed. When your product isn’t even being offered by 70% of the market, you have a problem.

I politely ask you for any documentation proving MSI is their partner for graphics cards. If you can, I'll stand corrected.

Nvidia doesn’t sell cards, they sell GPUs.

Except they do. They're called Founder's Edition cards.

 

[nguyen]

Built 2 PCs for friends with MSI 4090 Suprim X and MSI 4080S Gaming X Slim and they have incredible build quality, looks like MSI just doesn't have the margins to make good Radeon GPUs

 

[Visible Noise]

I politely ask you for any documentation proving MSI is their partner for graphics cards. If you can, I'll stand corrected.

FAQ Aurora R11 | DELL Technologies

Sales Overview Drivers & Downloads (Windows 10/10S/11) Documentation Service Manual Setup and Specifications Validated OEM video cards = M8HMD Nvidia/MSI RTX 3090, 24GB4Y12V Nvidia/MSI RTX 3080...

www.dell.com

Look for yourself, try to find a system from the big 3 with a 90xx card in it. They don’t exist.

Except they do. They're called Founder's Edition cards.

Manufactured by MSI. Nvidia has no manufacturing facilities at all.

 

[Dr. Dro]

FAQ Aurora R11 | DELL Technologies

Sales Overview Drivers & Downloads (Windows 10/10S/11) Documentation Service Manual Setup and Specifications Validated OEM video cards = M8HMD Nvidia/MSI RTX 3090, 24GB4Y12V Nvidia/MSI RTX 3080...

www.dell.com

Manufactured by MSI. Nvidia has no manufacturing facilities at all.

I thought the OEM bulk was generally built by the Palit group? I don't think Nvidia ever disclosed who they contracted out the FE manufacturing to, though

 

[Visible Noise]

I thought the OEM bulk was generally built by the Palit group? I don't think Nvidia ever disclosed who they contracted out the FE manufacturing to, though

MSI has been building motherboards and video cards for HP and Dell for decades. My experience being limited to products available in the US.