Full Review: 9800GX2 vs HD3870X2!!!

[EastCoasthandle]

You own experiences don't mean anything. An bunch of independant specialists have looked at both camps and the conclusion was that the IQ difference doesn't exists.

Oh, and you are not the only person with personal experience, don't ever assume that. A good argument doesn't involve personal experience, which is why we have left that part out of the IQ argument. You should be able to prove your point without saying "well my personal experience is...so that is how it is". You can't do that, so the only logical conclusion is that your argument is false. Helping that conclusion along is the fact that it has been proven false by independant studies.

I can offer my opinion on the subject

AND

I have offered my opinion on the subject

I won't continue with this. You acuse me of fanboi and infantile, when it is you acting like that, and forgeting about facts (links). I say what my opinion is, you say what yours is. You say there's a big difference, I say there isn't and I provide a link that backs me up.
I have as much personal experience with both cards as you, post #36, and I have demostrated as much as you, because I don't see any demostration from your part...
And lastly, since my whole point is that both cards have same IQ in oposition to this is better, it is you who is insisting in "my card is better" argument.

As I said qrow up.

Your only accusation of me being a fanboi is offering an opinion that is different then your own. This is not the definition of being a fanboi. However you on the other hand through your rabid responses clearly show otherwise. Per the mentioned PC Maximum review 7 found ATI's offering better then nvidia (which 5 took interest). If you read the article they are referencing CF vs SLI which is why I take no real interest in it. However, their was a distinct difference in the color of the fire (whatever that means there is no additional information regarding this).

Read the chart from the link:
Source

 

[newtekie1]

actually newtekie says for him Nvidia is better

Actually, I'm with you, they are the same.

I can offer my opinion on the subject

AND

I have offered my opinion on the subject

Yes, and your opinion doesn't mean anything unless you can back it up, and you can't. So offer away, it doesn't mean anything. And we are allowed to argue with your opinion, and prove it false(which we have, actually it was proven false before you even offered your opinion).

And the person that resorts to insults, is usually the person losing the argument, and usually the least mature of the group. So it is ironic that you talk about maturity, when you seem to be the least mature.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Actually, I'm with you, they are the same.



Yes, and your opinion doesn't mean anything unless you can back it up, and you can't. So offer away, it doesn't mean anything. And we are allowed to argue with your opinion, and prove it false(which we have, actually it was proven false before you even offered your opinion).

And the person that resorts to insults, is usually the person losing the argument, and usually the least mature of the group. So it is ironic that you talk about maturity, when you seem to be the least mature.

If my opinion doesn't mean anything to you there is no need to offer an opinion about it. This sort of self reassurance isn't needed if you truly felt that way. As the saying goes actions speak louder then words.


As for being proven false and insults (because I seen for myself that IQ is not the same, which is not an insult). I'll let chart below speak for me, that way I don't insult anyone.

As I said before, anyone who had the opportunity to use both cards can clearly see a distinct difference.

 

[driver66]

OMG it never fails /facepalm :shadedshu

 

[newtekie1]

If my opinion doesn't mean anything to you there is no need to offer an opinion about it. This sort of self reassurance isn't needed if you truly felt that way. As the saying goes actions speak louder then words.

As for being proven false and insults (because I seen for myself that IQ is not the same, which is not an insult). I'll let chart below speak for me, that way I don't insult anyone.

As I said before, anyone who had the opportunity to use both cards can clearly see a distinct difference.

Sure there is a reason, when you present your opinion as fact, a fact that is actually false.

I don't see how you can post a chart showing people claiming both sides look better, and then claim that is proof that ATi has better IQ and the "difference is obvious". Really? If the difference is so obvious, then why does anyone pick nVidia? If ATi is that much better, and the difference is so obvious, then why did anyone pick nVidia?

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Sure there is a reason, when you present your opinion as fact, a fact that is actually false.

No, I specifically said "opinion" as found in post 53, 51, etc. As a matter of fact, you quoted me saying it.

 

[newtekie1]

No, I specifically said "opinion" as found in post 53, 51, etc. As a matter of fact, you quoted me saying it.

Read post #38, your post. The first post on the subject we are arguing about. NO mention of it being opinion. Just direct statements of fact, false facts. You then continue with no mention of opinion in post #41. You only then claimed those were your own personal opinions later one, when we already started arguing them.

That's were you are wrong. The HD does offer better IQ when it comes to moves over the Geforce. Anyone who (like myself) had the opportunity to view both cards should tell you that. No reason to lie about this.

No statement of opinion there.

Video playback on both video cards are very distinct, negligible is simply a play on words. The differences in IQ between the 2 are obvious, unlike the differences in AF.
Lets not draw comparisons between video play back and video games.

None there either.

You present your opinion that the IQ difference is obvious as a fact, not as an opinion and that is what started the argument. You only went back and said it was opinion later on, but you originally did not present it as opinion.

 

[DarkMatter]

Your only accusation of me being a fanboi is offering an opinion that is different then your own. This is not the definition of being a fanboi. However you on the other hand through your rabid responses clearly show otherwise. Per the mentioned PC Maximum review 7 found ATI's offering better then nvidia (which 5 took interest). If you read the article they are referencing CF vs SLI which is why I take no real interest in it. However, their was a distinct difference in the color of the fire (whatever that means there is no additional information regarding this).


Source

On the profound fanboism in which you are summerged, you are not even able to notice that going against your opinion "Ati IQ is better" is not the same as saying "Nvidia is better", mine is a neutral opinion, in any case I would be a "fanboi of neutralism", but let's forget about this because you won't never see the difference. We have sustained the same discusion in the past and you always only listen to one person: you.

Now let's look at the charts and do some math:

15 + 9 = 24 > 21

So there's more people with an opinion different to yours than backing you up. And if you bothered to read the article, which is clear you didn't, you would realize this:

1- There should be alot more people saying Ati better if it actually was better.
2- The control group (showing them the same image, they saw a difference) demostrated that they felt forced to choose one. In that situation the fact that there's more from one than the other is fortuite, they were seeing the "same image" just as in the control group but they chose one over the other:

THE CONTROL GROUP

We were surprised that only three of the six people in our control group expressed no preference between display A and display B—and in only one category each at that. Since they were unknowingly comparing identical rigs, we thought nearly everyone would admit there was no difference between the two displays. Since most of our subjects are professional critics, we suspect that they felt an inherent obligation to discern some difference between the two displays they were staring at (despite our assurances to the contrary).

The control group did help eliminate the display itself as a variable: If the monitors had colored our evaluators’ opinions, the votes would have been lopsided in favor of one or the other. Of the control group’s 18 opinions, nine favored monitor A, six favored monitor B, and three expressed no preference.

Explaining why that happened is as easy as throwing a coin and look at the results, throw it 10 times and you won't have 5/5 even when theoretically probabilities are 50%, throw it 50 times and it will be closer to 50%, throw it 10000000 times and there you have, almost 50%.

Don't be a fanboi, you are the only one who thinks that saying "not better than" == saying "worse than". You are the only one here who feels we are attacking your beloved card when we say it has the same IQ as the competition. That's fanboism.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Read post #38, your post. The first post on the subject we are arguing about. NO mention of it being opinion. Just direct statements of fact, false facts. You then continue with no mention of opinion in post #41. You only then claimed those were your own personal opinions later one, when we already started arguing them.



No statement of opinion there.



None there either.

You present your opinion that the IQ difference is obvious as a fact, not as an opinion and that is what started the argument. You only went back and said it was opinion later on, but you originally did not present it as opinion.

If I at a later point explain my posts (for clarity) then that is how it should be interpreted. You cannot define what I mean beyond that. However, it's obvious you are simply posting this to argue and this is getting off topic.

On the profound fanboism in which you are summerged, you are not even able to notice that going against your opinion "Ati IQ is better" is not the same as saying "Nvidia is better", mine is a neutral opinion, in any case I would be a "fanboi of neutralism", but let's forget about this because you won't never see the difference. We have sustained the same discusion in the past and you always only listen to one person: you.

Now let's look at the charts and do some math:

15 + 9 = 24 > 21

So there's more people with an opinion different to yours than backing you up. And if you bothered to read the article, which is clear you didn't, you would realize this:

1- There should be alot more people saying Ati better if it actually was better.
2- The control group (showing them the same image, they saw a difference) demostrated that they felt forced to choose one. In that situation the fact that there's more from one than the other is fortuite, they were seeing the "same image" just as in the control group but they chose one over the other:



Explaining why that happened is as easy as throwing a coin and look at the results, throw it 10 times and you won't have 5/5 even when theoretically probabilities are 50%, throw it 50 times and it will be closer to 50%, throw it 10000000 times and there you have, almost 50%.

Don't be a fanboi, you are the only one who thinks that saying "not better than" == saying "worse than". You are the only one here who feels we are attacking your beloved card when we say it has the same IQ as the competition. That's fanboism.

You are really grasping for straws and showing more and more your preference. The article clearly show the results of their tests and they are conclusive, regardless of how you feel about them. The "what ifs" and "suppose to be" are more excuses then an explanation to the results. This all goes to show how easily offended you are regarding situations like this.

Yes, but the problem is that your original post hint in no way that they are your opinions. You present them in ways to make people believe they are facts. So if they are presented as facts, we will argue them if they are incorrect. Later on saying they were only opinions doesn't mean we shouldn't have argued them in the first place. You can't expect us to be mind readers and know that when you present things in ways that make them seem factual, they are really opinions so we shouldn't argue them.

When you say "The HD DOES have better IQ than the GeForce" that is a statement of fact, not opinion. A statement you need to be able to back up with evidence. You only later realized your "fact" was false, and began claiming it was only your opinion.

It obvious you are not very astute and are now "making it up" at this point in an attempt to save face. This alone discredits your entire argument regarding the IQ results and your interpretation of my posts. However, based upon your lack of facts you haven't offered one shred of evidence to the contrary. For example, you have not used both video cards yet you argue with me with baseless accusations. LOL

 

[newtekie1]

Don't be a fanboi, you are the only one who thinks that saying "not better than" == saying "worse than". You are the only one here who feels we are attacking your beloved card when we say it has the same IQ as the competition. That's fanboism.

+1

If I at a later point explain my posts (for clarity) then that is how it should be interpreted. You cannot define what I mean beyond that. However, it's obvious you are simply posting this to argue and this is getting off topic.

Yes, but the problem is that your original post hint in no way that they are your opinions. You present them in ways to make people believe they are facts. So if they are presented as facts, we will argue them if they are incorrect. Later on saying they were only opinions doesn't mean we shouldn't have argued them in the first place. You can't expect us to be mind readers and know that when you present things in ways that make them seem factual, they are really opinions so we shouldn't argue them.

When you say "The HD DOES have better IQ than the GeForce" that is a statement of fact, not opinion. A statement you need to be able to back up with evidence. You only later realized your "fact" was false, and began claiming it was only your opinion.

 

[DarkMatter]

Yes, but the problem is that your original post hint in no way that they are your opinions. You present them in ways to make people believe they are facts. So if they are presented as facts, we will argue them if they are incorrect. Later on saying they were only opinions doesn't mean we shouldn't have argued them in the first place. You can't expect us to be mind readers and know that when you present things in ways that make them see factual, they are really opinions so we shouldn't argue them.

When you say "The HD DOES have better IQ than the GeForce" that is a statement of fact, not opinion. A statement you need to be able to back up with evidence. You only later realized your "fact" was false, and began claiming it was only your opinion.

+1

Now let's get on topic again please, he will never concede.

 

[reviewhunter]

Gosh, what are you guys arguing about?

 

[niko084]

70% faster in Crysis...wow...to bad AA kills it. Not that you really need AA at 1920x1200.

I hope some driver maturing fixes the AA issues.

This should not be surprising seriously considering Crysis is programmed directly for Nvidia cards... Namely the 8800's, which is not much different from the 9800...

Our Ati cards are still not using half our shaders..... :shadedshu on Crytek.

 

[driver66]

Seriously guys let it rest

 

[DarkMatter]

You are really grasping for straws and showing more and more your preference. The article clearly show the results of their tests and they are conclusive, regardless of how you feel about them. The "what ifs" and "suppose to be" are more excuses then an explanation to the results. This all goes to show how easily offended you are regarding situations like this.

You don't know how to read in the results. But you didn't had to anyway, READ the actual article!! It says it all!!

According to your "conclusive" opinions, it's a lot more clear that the win of HP LP3065 30-inch LCD over HP LP3065 30-inch LCD (yeah it's the same, just in case you didn't notice) is greater than Ati vs. Nvidia. That win is more "conclusive" (the numbers are conclusive right?) than Ati vs. Nvidia win, but yeah I am grasping for straws here too...

The control group did help eliminate the display itself as a variable: If the monitors had colored our evaluators’ opinions, the votes would have been lopsided in favor of one or the other. Of the control group’s 18 opinions, nine favored monitor A, six favored monitor B, and three expressed no preference.

 

[rampage]

sence the thread has been hijacked, why dosent someone create a new thread and we can have a vote on wich card has the god dam prittiest pictue, but then hay, i guess it also come down to what monitor your are using as well, so meh, who realy gives a rats ass, its not like the days of 1>2 years ago with image quality

 

[DarkMatter]

sence the thread has been hijacked, why dosent someone create a new thread and we can have a vote on wich card has the god dam prittiest pictue, but then hay, i guess it also come down to what monitor your are using as well, so meh, who realy gives a rats ass, its not like the days of 1>2 years ago with image quality

I already proposed that, but I just didn't want to start one myselft. But looking at circunstances I'm going to do it.

 

[rampage]

I already proposed that, but I just didn't want to start one myselft. But looking at circunstances I'm going to do it.

ah ok, soz i skimmed over the thread, any who, it seams as things are the gx2 has a nice leed, but with drivers to come and the ati boys with ddr4 i still think things will be pritty close

 

[mandelore]

wow, ive wandered into a cat fight.

*throws catnip about and chills everyone out

 

[newtekie1]

This should not be surprising seriously considering Crysis is programmed directly for Nvidia cards... Namely the 8800's, which is not much different from the 9800...

Our Ati cards are still not using half our shaders..... :shadedshu on Crytek.

I don't know where you got that it is programmed directly for nVidia cards. Just because it has the nVidia logo at the beginning doesn't mean it is programmed directly for nVidia cards, it just means nVidia paided them to put it there. It has Intel's logo at the beginning too, do you really think it was programmed directly for Intel CPUs too? It is just a marketting tool. 3Dmark06 has advertisements for Alienware computers in it, do you really think they programmed it directly for Alienware computers?

If the Crytek engine isn't using half the shaders, it is because there are too many shaders, though I doubt that is the case.

 

[xfire]

You guys need to relax. Let more number tests come out with the Gx2 especially TPU's.

 

[zOaib]

i love this place , we have almost an equal number of opposing factions i.e ATi Clan and Nvidia Clan members dueling it out .................. its sometimes fun when its a more mature argument , not when its down to fanboisim . =)

 

[TooFast]

http://www.computerbase.de/news/har...8/februar/benchmarks_bilder_geforce_9800_gx2/

looks like nvidia is in trouble

 

[calvary1980]

that article is dated Feb 26th, a full review was done yesterday.

- Christine

 

[niko084]

I don't know where you got that it is programmed directly for nVidia cards. Just because it has the nVidia logo at the beginning doesn't mean it is programmed directly for nVidia cards, it just means nVidia paided them to put it there. It has Intel's logo at the beginning too, do you really think it was programmed directly for Intel CPUs too? It is just a marketting tool. 3Dmark06 has advertisements for Alienware computers in it, do you really think they programmed it directly for Alienware computers?

If the Crytek engine isn't using half the shaders, it is because there are too many shaders, though I doubt that is the case.

Check their advertisements...

*BUILT ON THE 8800*
It is programmed directly to ONLY use 128 shaders.

So thats where I get my info. And yes it is programmed directly FOR nVidia cards!
Doesn't mean their ATI support is non existant, just means its not *tweaked* for them.

It gives a small slight advantage off the start. It shows when you compare how close these cards run and then hit Crysis....