HD 4870X2 Beats GeForce GTX 280

[wolf2009]

The "Reliable" till now informer CJ has done it again.

Here's what he reported to VR-Zone .

While we are away for Computex, CJ let us know that the Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 prototype card is out and it beats the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage. The R700 card is basically made up of two RV770 GPUs with 2x256-bit memory interface to either GDDR3 or GDDR5 memories. We asked our sources about R700 in Computex and apparently AMD is going to let AIB partners to decide the specs themselves. Therefore, the partners will set their own clock speeds, PCB design, memory types, cooler solutions etc. and there will be Radeon HD 4850 X2 and 4870 X2 cards differentiate by the memory type. The R700 card apparently doing pretty well at this stage scoring about X5500 in 3DMark Vantage Extreme preset while the GeForce GTX 280 card is scoring X4800. Both sides are still working hard on optimizing their drivers for the new architecture so probably we will see the performance to improve over time.

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Radeon_HD_4870_X2_R700_Beats_GeForce_GTX_280/5851.html

Next few months look very promising for ATI :cough: :cough: sorry , AMD .

 

[Duffman]

hmmm, interesting. Looking good. I think now that I have a bad 2900XT (cooler fan won't operate), i will be looking strongly at a 4870 X2

 

[ChaoticBlankness]

As someone who still uses an ATi x1900 AIW, I'm totally ready for an upgrade.

 

[wiak]

hmmm, interesting. Looking good. I think now that I have a bad 2900XT (cooler fan won't operate), i will be looking strongly at a 4870 X2

get a proper cooler like zalman VF900-CU

 

[alexp999]

Surely its obvious a dual gpu is going to beat a single one. . The only comparison is between an ati X2 and an nvidia GX2

 

[Th3-R3as0n]

But Nvidia Aparantely said that their Single Card Solution would be the equivalent or better than AMD's Dual core solution?

Am i right?

This is great news for ATI users. Im still sitting on a X1950XT so the upgrade should be well worth the wait

 

[Deleted member 3]

Surely its obvious a dual gpu is going to beat a single one. . The only comparison is between an ati X2 and an nvidia GX2

Of course not, why would you compare based on amount of chips used? I think you should compare cards in the same price range. Sure there is always the matter of a performance crown, but in the end we all want the best price/performance ratio. For instance it's nice if there is a GX280 GX2 version which would probably kick that 4870 x2 around, but if it's double the price that still doesn't mean a thing.

It's similar to that "but C2Q isn't a 'real' quad" discussion. It is not relevant how something is created, how it looks on the inside. If it does the job it's fine. For instance if the NV card has to run at a zillion Ghz to be faster so be it, as long as it does so at the same price and same power consumption (ie not offer any major downsides) I couldn't care less.

 

[tkpenalty]

Nvidia cannot counter this as the GTX280's design makes it impossible to have two of the cores in close proximity without something like a water block in use...

 

[alexp999]

Okay fair enough. I assumed that all the "next gen" graphics cards would be roughly on par. Same price thats all. Don' really follow up coming stuff too much, lol.
Doesn't this mean the ATi single gpu's will get walked over by nvidia single gpu's? but i suppose if Ati gets the price right...

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Okay fair enough. I assumed that all the "next gen" graphics cards would be roughly on par. Same price thats all. Don' really follow up coming stuff too much, lol.
Doesn't this mean the ATi single gpu's will get walked over by nvidia single gpu's? but i suppose if Ati gets the price right...

Yeah, ATi will have to make there money in the price-performance category due to the lower dev income to work with.

 

[largon]

HD 4870X2 Beats GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage

Fixed.

 

[newconroer]

Of course not, why would you compare based on amount of chips used? I think you should compare cards in the same price range. Sure there is always the matter of a performance crown, but in the end we all want the best price/performance ratio. For instance it's nice if there is a GX280 GX2 version which would probably kick that 4870 x2 around, but if it's double the price that still doesn't mean a thing.

It's similar to that "but C2Q isn't a 'real' quad" discussion. It is not relevant how something is created, how it looks on the inside. If it does the job it's fine. For instance if the NV card has to run at a zillion Ghz to be faster so be it, as long as it does so at the same price and same power consumption (ie not offer any major downsides) I couldn't care less.

Speaking of power consumption, any word on the X2 ? Oh wait, all they've done is VANTAGE scores..wow..I'm glad we're already jumping to conclusions based on that.

 

[niko084]

I never put much faith in pre release VR reviews...

 

[Megasty]

P/P is everything. If the 4870x2 matches the GTX 280 then nuff said. But we all know it won't. It'll beat it by a fair margin. The paper numbers even comfirms that...if the GTX 280 doesn't come up with a terrible amount of little magic people It might be the best single gpu card but at $650-700, bull. I don't even know why this is still an issue

 

[farlex85]

Both companies know what they're doing. If the 4870x2 beats the 280gtx, its a pretty safe bet nvidia will try to make that card priced competitively, or create another one to compete w/ it. The 4870 is supposed to be about $300 at launch right? So if the 4870x2 comes soon after that'll probably be $550 or so at launch. By then the 280 gtx may be equally priced. We'll just have to see. Don't count either out.

 

[flashstar]

According to AMD, they will never release a card that costs more than $500. The 4870x2 will most likely be around $499. That's still $100 cheaper than Nvidia's variant. Additionally, Nvidia won't be able to lower the price at all because the margins are already really small for the 280 and 260.

 

[farlex85]

According to AMD, they will never release a card that costs more than $500. The 4870x2 will most likely be around $499. That's still $100 cheaper than Nvidia's variant. Additionally, Nvidia won't be able to lower the price at all because the margins are already really small for the 280 and 260.

That's good to hear, I didn't know they said that. I personally don't ever want to pay over $400 for a card, considering I can get a counsel for the same. Maybe $300, I'm gonna wait either way though. We shall just have to see I suppose.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

But Nvidia Aparantely said that their Single Card Solution would be the equivalent or better than AMD's Dual core solution?

Am i right?

This is great news for ATI users. Im still sitting on a X1950XT so the upgrade should be well worth the wait

Correct, many from that camp believe that a monolithic design is still "superior" then a dual gpu solution. Coming from CJ it's hard not to believe it's accuracy but, I still take it with a grain a salt for now. But if it's true its a good slap in the face towards those who undermine the 4800 series. This is because I read a few posts that the X2 couldn't beat GTX280 in Vantage as it is more geared towards nv hardware (be it true or otherwise). You have some who believe that 06 is designed for the 2900/3800 and Vantage is for nv.

 

[niko084]

According to AMD, they will never release a card that costs more than $500. The 4870x2 will most likely be around $499. That's still $100 cheaper than Nvidia's variant. Additionally, Nvidia won't be able to lower the price at all because the margins are already really small for the 280 and 260.

Doesn't much matter most people will pay more for Nvidia.

 

[ghost101]

The other thing is, it doesnt "just" beat it, its 14.5% faster. Nice to see, although nvidia might counter with a 256 shader product if previous rumours that nvidia are only using 240 shaders due to poor yields are to be believed.

 

[imperialreign]

Surely its obvious a dual gpu is going to beat a single one. . The only comparison is between an ati X2 and an nvidia GX2

well - if R700 does turn out to be a dual-core GPU, than technically, it still counts as only one GPU on the board . . .

no one is sure, yet, as to the R700 specs, as we haven't heard anything 100% reliable or concrete

 

[Megasty]

Doesn't much matter most people will pay more for Nvidia.

True but that don't make them smart...

I'll be buying the best product for my cash, if I had to - $600-700 is just crazy & I don't care about the Ultra either :shadedshu

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Remember to take all this is a pinch of salt folks...

Correct, many from that camp believe that a monolithic design is still "superior" then a dual gpu solution. Coming from CJ it's hard not to believe it's accuracy but, I still take it with a grain a salt for now. But if it's true its a good slap in the face towards those who undermine the 4800 series. This is because I read a few posts that the X2 couldn't beat GTX280 in Vantage as it is more geared towards nv hardware (be it true or otherwise). You have some who believe that 06 is designed for the 2900/3800 and Vantage is for nv.

Remember when I said take these CJ posts (and other relating posts) with a grain of salt?

Well here is one good reason why
I literally just got out of a meeting with ATI, and honestly, I'd just advise everyone to calm down and wait for direct info from ATI/AMD.

A lot of these rumors and speculation are just plain wrong, some of the numbers floating around out there are made up, and the ones that aren't are often based on older drivers that aren't performing as well as the newer stuff.

I'm under NDA so I obviously can't share any performance numbers with you, so don't ask. I wouldn't believe them anyway, because I never believe the performance numbers ATI or Nvidia gives me at face value. I believe the numbers I get when I test things myself.

Source

Hard to say what this means for the 4800 series. Who is this guy? Well check out ExtremeTech.

 

[Haytch]

The "Reliable" till now informer CJ has done it again.

Here's what he reported to VR-Zone .



http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/Radeon_HD_4870_X2_R700_Beats_GeForce_GTX_280/5851.html

Next few months look very promising for ATI :cough: :cough: sorry , AMD .

Its not that i dont believe you, or your source, its more towards the fact that prior a cards release theres always heaps of shit talking.

Then theres the fact that once cards and other hardware are released, you get a whole bunch of users that dont know how to manage and overclock and then bench their equipment, giving us all crappy and inaccurate estimates.

Lastly, lets try not to forget those that dont know what CUDA is yet.

Ive got high expectations this time round from both Nvdia and AMD/ATi.

 

[Squirrely]

According to AMD, they will never release a card that costs more than $500. The 4870x2 will most likely be around $499. That's still $100 cheaper than Nvidia's variant. Additionally, Nvidia won't be able to lower the price at all because the margins are already really small for the 280 and 260.

Taken from an article (this was posted on a thread by wolf2009 a few days ago) about GT200's yields from 65nm wafers (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/05/29/nvidia-gt200-sucessor-tapes):

Word has come out of Satan Clara that the yields are laughable. No, make that abysmal, they are 40 per cent. To add insult to injury, that 40 per cent includes both the 280 and the 260 yield salvage parts. With about 100 die candidates per wafer, that means 40 good dice per wafer. Doing the maths, a TSMC 300mm 65nm wafer runs about $5000, so that means each good die costs $125 before packaging, testing and the like. If they can get away with sub-$150 costs per GPU, we will be impressed.

I think the only way Nvidia would be able to lower the costs is when they introduce their GT200b core. They do have a little bit of playing room with the current costs per chip (~$150), but once they go 55nm, that will lower the costs quite a bit. That maybe allows them to put the chip more competitively with ATI. But also there's the factor which was stated above, people will pay more for that little green logo. So they could mark it up a bit more.

I guess we just have to wait it out and see what the two do.