Windows 7 Benefits from HyperThreading Better

[TheMailMan78]

Great news, anything that can improve performance is a good thing for me. This is especially good news for us netbook and nettop users.

Waits for AMD fanboy to come in and quote "Real Men Use Real Cores"...

<< Looks at his avy.

Why would anyone say "Real Men Use Real Cores"?

 

[filip007]

Heat from HT thats funny mybe from SSE4.2 this are HT optimized

 

[LiveOrDie]

i run my 920 at 3.2Ghz my temp never go over 60c and im using HT it really heaps the os along, windows 7 is made for i7

 

[Completely Bonkers]

...The work that we've done in Windows 7 in the scheduler and the core of the system to take full advantage of those [HyperThreading] capabilities, ultimately we think we can deliver a great and better experience for you." This could particularly come as good news for users with multi-threaded productivity applications, and newer 3D games.

But it is helping the OS? Can Windows services happily run on the HTT? And have DLLs been written to support multithreading? And is it HTT only or also the "older" HT? Will it impact P4 (and the old, poorer cousin, original HT), or is it only going to impact the newer HTT technology we see in Atom and i7?

 

[Valdez]

But it is helping the OS? Can Windows services happily run on the HTT? And have DLLs been written to support multithreading? And is it HTT only or also the "older" HT? Will it impact P4 (and the old, poorer cousin, original HT), or is it only going to impact the newer HTT technology we see in Atom and i7?

I think it's just marketing bullshit. If it is designed to htt, then it is designed to many core processors too (>4).
I think win7 will simply use many-core processors (logical or physical) in a more effecient way (i hope so).

 

[Shadin]

Where would the extra heat from hyperthreading come from ? They are only logical so they wouldn't add any heat asfaik.

A lot of people OCing report lower temps, better stability and therefore higher OC's with HT disabled on i7. I will say this, though, HT is great for video transcoding. Gaming and everything else, though, it doesn't seem to do much.

 

[DrPepper]

A lot of people OCing report lower temps, better stability and therefore higher OC's with HT disabled on i7. I will say this, though, HT is great for video transcoding. Gaming and everything else, though, it doesn't seem to do much.

Odd really. I always thought it would be like an instruction or something like that. Nothing physical that could create heat. Although I could see it adding more load onto one core than if it was off.

 

[Shadin]

Odd really. I always thought it would be like an instruction or something like that. Nothing physical that could create heat. Although I could see it adding more load onto one core than if it was off.

Yeah, it was shown over at XS. I'll see if I can dig up the posts. As far as Windows 7 being HT optimized, that's all marketing bullshit. Very specific applications benefit from HT, everything else would get the same performance from four cores as it would four + four virtual ones.

 

[kid41212003]

A lot of people OCing report lower temps, better stability and therefore higher OC's with HT disabled on i7. I will say this, though, HT is great for video transcoding. Gaming and everything else, though, it doesn't seem to do much.

99% of people that use computers don't OC, and they probably don't even know what is HT.

 

[Shadin]

99% of people that use computers don't OC, and they probably don't even know what is HT.

Those are the people who tend to buy prebuilt machines, hardly any of which except for the highest end Dell Alienware come with an i7 CPU. It's fairly safe to say at the current time that anyone with an i7 processor damn well knows what HT is, and coming from the enthusiast market, a good portion of them also OC.

 

[kid41212003]

Trust me, after 1 year and a half, core i5 will dominate the mid-range computers (500-600$ each).

 

[Millenia]

Trust me, after 1 year and a half, core i5 will dominate the mid-range computers (500-600$ each).

Hope not, AMD is doing poorly enough as it is

 

[TheMailMan78]

Trust me, after 1 year and a half, core i5 will dominate the mid-range computers (500-600$ each).

Not likely.

 

[DrPepper]

Trust me, after 1 year and a half, core i5 will dominate the mid-range computers (500-600$ each).

In Scotland at least no one really buys a desktop mostly cheap laptops that are AMD cpu's so unless i5 is cheap and mobile it wont be a massive threat.

 

[kid41212003]

In Scotland at least no one really buys a desktop mostly cheap laptops that are AMD cpu's so unless i5 is cheap and mobile it wont be a massive threat.

What I meant is it will take the places of the current Core 2 Duo desktop .

 

[TheMailMan78]

What I meant is it will take the places of the current Core 2 Duo desktop .

And why use an i5 when the Phenom II is so damn cheap and runs most games as well as an i7 which is faster than an i5?

 

[DrPepper]

What I meant is it will take the places of the current Core 2 Duo desktop .

Yes but desktops are becoming less prevailent and laptops are on the rise.

 

[ShadowFold]

And why use an i5 when the Phenom II is so damn cheap and runs most games as well as an i7 which is faster than an i5?

I don't see how the i5 is going to compete with the PII's if they're just crippled i7. The i7 already perform near the same in games.. If the i5 have overclocking head room, I'll most likely build one, play with it for a week and turn it into an 8 threaded crunching machine.

 

[DrPepper]

I don't see how the i5 is going to compete with the PII's if they're just crippled i7. The i7 already perform near the same in games.. If the i5 have overclocking head room, I'll most likely build one, play with it for a week and turn it into an 8 threaded crunching machine.

i5 is dual core so wouldn't it be 4 threaded.

 

[evil bill]

I'm running 7 just fine on a sempron 2800+ (1.6Ghz) with 1GB 333MHz ram on a 40GB seagate HDD, and it runs fine. sure, its not snappy - but it doesnt pause or stutter, and all the applications you expect to run on a netbook/netbox run fine (firefox with 5 tabs, MSN, skype, kaspersky)

Im running 7 on my old rig, (full spec in sig) which has a P4 3.0Ghz with HT and 1GB ram. It runs great to be honest. I thought I might need to take back the other 1GB I donated to my parents to get it to perform but have been very pleasantly surprised.

 

[Valdez]

and runs most games as well as an i7

Better

http://www.hardware-infos.com/tests.php?test=64&seite=1

 

[Mussels]

Where would the extra heat from hyperthreading come from ? They are only logical so they wouldn't add any heat asfaik.

less than a real core, but they still use electricals so they add some heat. i'd expect 30-50% of the heat of a real core.

Yeah, it was shown over at XS. I'll see if I can dig up the posts. As far as Windows 7 being HT optimized, that's all marketing bullshit. Very specific applications benefit from HT, everything else would get the same performance from four cores as it would four + four virtual ones.

Applications need to be written to better support HT. All MS has done for 7, is written its default suite of programs to work better on HT. (Media player, media center, the services, etc)

 

[LiveOrDie]

Yeah, it was shown over at XS. I'll see if I can dig up the posts. As far as Windows 7 being HT optimized, that's all marketing bullshit. Very specific applications benefit from HT, everything else would get the same performance from four cores as it would four + four virtual ones.

For a guy that hasn't seen the proformance jump using a i7 from vista to windows 7 sure talks some crap, i can tell you now i was using vista for 4 months on my i7 and it was pissing me right off it run better on my old c2d 8400, i just wanted to see how windows 7 run on my new system at the time, and man just in windows and other programs there was a huge difference not so much in games, but i under stand why vista wasn't made for HT because no modern cpus had it at the time,so i wiped my harddrive off and run windows 7 as my only OS and all the problems i had with vista are gone, i didnt give a shit about windows bugs because i was using build 7000 and that had bulk bugs, but it still ran better than vista now im on build 7127 and i find a few bugs but none that i care about my system runs better than ever.

PLUS READ THIS BEFORE SAYING IT HAS NO PERFORMANCE BOOST

Hyper-threading is Intel's trademarked term for its simultaneous multithreading implementation in their Pentium 4, Atom, and Core i7 CPUs. Hyper-threading (officially termed Hyper-Threading Technology or HTT) is an Intel-proprietary technology used to improve parallelization of computations (doing multiple tasks at once) performed on PC microprocessors. A processor with hyper-threading enabled is treated by the operating system as two processors instead of one. This means that only one processor is physically present but the operating system sees two virtual processors, and shares the workload between them. Hyper-threading requires only that the operating system support multiple processors, but Intel recommends disabling HT when using operating systems that have not been optimized for the technology.

If i had tryed this vista probley would of ran better on my i7 but i would rather have HT on

 

[Shadin]

For a guy that hasn't seen the proformance jump using a i7 from vista to windows 7 sure talks some crap, i can tell you now i was using vista for 4 months on my i7 and it was pissing me right off it run better on my old c2d 8400, i just wanted to see how windows 7 run on my new system at the time, and man just in windows and other programs there was a huge difference not so much in games, but i under stand why vista wasn't made for HT because no modern cpus had it at the time,so i wiped my harddrive off and run windows 7 as my only OS and all the problems i had with vista are gone, i didnt give a shit about windows bugs because i was using build 7000 and that had bulk bugs, but it still ran better than vista now im on build 7127 and i find a few bugs but none that i care about my system runs better than ever.

PLUS READ THIS BEFORE SAYING IT HAS NO PERFORMANCE BOOST

Hyper-threading is Intel's trademarked term for its simultaneous multithreading implementation in their Pentium 4, Atom, and Core i7 CPUs. Hyper-threading (officially termed Hyper-Threading Technology or HTT) is an Intel-proprietary technology used to improve parallelization of computations (doing multiple tasks at once) performed on PC microprocessors. A processor with hyper-threading enabled is treated by the operating system as two processors instead of one. This means that only one processor is physically present but the operating system sees two virtual processors, and shares the workload between them. Hyper-threading requires only that the operating system support multiple processors, but Intel recommends disabling HT when using operating systems that have not been optimized for the technology.

If i had tryed this vista probley would of ran better on my i7 but i would rather have HT on

On my Q9400, Windows 7 runs better than Vista ever did. Nothing you said can be substantiated to give the credit to Hyperthreading. I'm just stating what others have tested and shown over at XS, saying that Win7 ran better on your i7 without any numbers or proof and just immediately giving the credit to Hyperthreading doesn't prove a thing.

I'm not saying that HT doesn't have its uses, but unless it's one of the processes that has actually been shown to substantially benefit from HT (such as video encoding, something the i7 excels at), then I still call marketing BS on this whole "Windows 7 is super HT optimized for EXTREME PERFORMANCE".

 

[newtekie1]

But it is helping the OS? Can Windows services happily run on the HTT? And have DLLs been written to support multithreading? And is it HTT only or also the "older" HT? Will it impact P4 (and the old, poorer cousin, original HT), or is it only going to impact the newer HTT technology we see in Atom and i7?

The technology hasn't really changed all that much. It should help on all HTT capable processors. Not that I would want to run Win7(or Vista) on an older P4 anyways...

I think it's just marketing bullshit. If it is designed to htt, then it is designed to many core processors too (>4).
I think win7 will simply use many-core processors (logical or physical) in a more effecient way (i hope so).

You are correct, the improvements to the scheduler will simply make the OS more multi-threading aware. The issue is with the OS. What Microsoft has done, from my understanding, is made the OS function better with multiple threads. The way the current OSes run(XP and Vista) most of the OS threads run on the single #0 core, with the new scheduler, these should be spread out onto the other available cores, making the OS snappier and quicker feeling. This should also mean that the OS will do better at running threads created by other programs on multiple cores, so really this should help out programs as well, even programs that don't natively support SMP.

And yes, HyperThreading increases the heat output of the CPU. The CPU is doing more work, so it puts out more heat.