9800 SE 256bit/256mb > XT ?

[Samurai]

before i upgraded my gpu to an r420 this is what i ownd, the 9800 se was the best bargin ive ever had in building pcs ... my close relative uses it in my secondary pc , and is soon upgrading his machine to the athlon 64 platform ...

the card is very impesive ,and seemingly rare ... i typed a bunch of stuff into google and no imformation about the 9800se 256bit and 256mb ,can be found at all :O

so , my question is ... considering the card runs faster than an 9800xt and is very stable and happy to do so .... wouldnt the best idea to flash the bios to xt ?

how can i do this ? i belive the card is just a re-named 9800xt for some reson ...
i dont know the manufacture as it came with a stoor bought pc that advertised it as a 9800.

ati tool confirms that , all 8 pipelines are enabled aswell as 256bit interface and 256mb memory.
clocks are at the default soft mod driver settings ...


thanks for all the help ... i hope bios flashing yealds good results ? .. ..

 

[djbbenn]

For starters the 9800se is not better than the XT. The se versions is the slowest of the bunch. It has only 4 pipes and not 8, so if your is showing 8 it must of been modded to unlock the 4 reamining pipes. You have soft mod drivers right? Well if your card doesn't have any problems with the extra pipes enabled and you can safely overclock (with no errors in atitool) to xt speeds...(412/365) then you can flash the bios with a xt one. Just get a flashrom...like atiflash or the modified one from this site and back up your old one first. Then flash the new bios to the card. If you get no problems like artifacts or blocks and your heat isn't too bad, your good and you got a nice 9800XT. Check to see if your card can handle the speeds first though and backup your orginal bios. Flashing instructions are here. Hope it helps.

-Dan

 

[Samurai]

ty , but i simply ment that this 9800 se in particular is faster than the xts ...

i will be flashing the bios an letting you know how it went .

 

[djbbenn]

Do you mean faster when overclock and and have the remaining pipes unlocked? They will be the same with the same bios. If your SE can handle the extra clocks. And ya, post back with your results dude.

-Dan

 

[Samurai]

cool, yeh when overclocked this SE is one beast ... lol

yeah i just needed to know if it where actualy posible to flash from SE > Xt ?
are they actualy the same cards just with different names ?
i though they had physicle differences

EDIT*

ALSO i cant find out which brand this card is ., there is no information on the 256bit/256mb 9800se ANYWHERE :O ??

 

[djbbenn]

Yes you should be able to flash to the XT. They have the same cores, but when they don't have a XT bios they shows a R350 core...not R360. And to see what make it is, you should be able to just look at the card.

-Dan

 

[Samurai]

nah the card doesnt have any identification at all :S i think its cos its an Oem stoor bought pc ,.. there isnt even a s/n

 

[15th Warlock]

Stop! Don't flash it unless you're 100% positive your card has an R360 core, if you use an XT BIOS on a Pro with an R350 core, all you'll get is a lot of stability problems and artifacts in games. You will most probably lose all the OC you get from that card if you use the wrong BIOS.
The only way to check if your card has an R360 core, is to remove the heatsink and check it visually. There's no software that'll help you there, as all programs just report what they read from the BIOS, so if you have a Pro BIOS, every program will report an R350 core.
Read this guide here, for further information:

9800XT Mod Gide

Good luck!

 

[Samurai]

warlock , great help and advice . TY

do you know of any R360 core cards that where forced as 9800se ... that would explain the 256bit and 256mb features wouldnt it ?
but yeah at the weekend im gonna have a look i think to see what core it is ...

would the benifits of running the XT bios at the same clocks be noticable ingame ?

 

[djbbenn]

When you say running at the same clocks...do you mean have the xt bios with XT clocks or se clocks?

-Dan

 

[15th Warlock]

warlock , great help and advice . TY

do you know of any R360 core cards that where forced as 9800se ... that would explain the 256bit and 256mb features wouldnt it ?
but yeah at the weekend im gonna have a look i think to see what core it is ...

would the benifits of running the XT bios at the same clocks be noticable ingame ?

I've heard about such cards, and logic tells us manufacturers would get to use R360 cores even for 9800SE cards, as Ati stopped the R350 production a long time ago (cost reductions? it's cheaper to use the same core for all your cards than having to manufacture two different cores).
If you mean that your card will have better performance clock for clock after flashing it, yes it will, expect about 5-8% performance increase from the XT BIOS, some ppl says it has to do with the R360 using optimized shaders, but I think it's related to the use of more agressive memory timings.
Please read the whole guide mentioned in my link, I'm sure it'll answer all your questions, and good luck with your card.

 

[djbbenn]

Ya big part is the shader scripts...but as you said I think the mem timings do make a difference.

-Dan

 

[Samurai]

9800se 256bit/256mb running at xt clocks with soft mod enabled

 

[djbbenn]

With the orginal bios? There will be some gain from the XT bios because the mem timings and shader script.

-Dan

 

[AMDCam]

See I wish you guys would just answer Samurai's question about if the XT BIOS would run games better than an SE BIOS with the same speeds (most likely the XT speeds). I am really curious too, seeing as I'm having a lot of trouble flashing my 9800 Pro and I just want to know if it makes a difference, because overclocking obviously Samurai and me can do (his runs faster than XT, mine runs 428/400 everything stock).

 

[15th Warlock]

See I wish you guys would just answer Samurai's question about if the XT BIOS would run games better than an SE BIOS with the same speeds (most likely the XT speeds). I am really curious too, seeing as I'm having a lot of trouble flashing my 9800 Pro and I just want to know if it makes a difference, because overclocking obviously Samurai and me can do (his runs faster than XT, mine runs 428/400 everything stock).

AMD, if you read my last post you'll clearly see I already answered that question:

If you mean that your card will have better performance clock for clock after flashing it, yes it will, expect about 5-8% performance increase from the XT BIOS, some ppl says it has to do with the R360 using optimized shaders, but I think it's related to the use of more agressive memory timings.
Please read the whole guide mentioned in my link, I'm sure it'll answer all your questions, and good luck with your card.

So yes, as quoted, he should expect a 5-8% increase in performance by flashing with the XT BIOS if you campare it to a 9800 with the original BIOS at the same clocks (hence the "clock for clock" reference).
Hope this helps you too. I highly recommend you read the guide I mentioned in my first post on this thread. If you read it you'll find answers to all of your questions regarding this matter, but feel free to ask any question here as well
Here's the quide I refer to again.

 

[djbbenn]

See I wish you guys would just answer Samurai's question about if the XT BIOS would run games better than an SE BIOS with the same speeds (most likely the XT speeds). I am really curious too, seeing as I'm having a lot of trouble flashing my 9800 Pro and I just want to know if it makes a difference, because overclocking obviously Samurai and me can do (his runs faster than XT, mine runs 428/400 everything stock).

Yes and I belive I anwsered it in my last post too. I said there will be some performacne increase just from the tighter mem timings and the newer shader script.

-Dan

 

[AMDCam]

Alright thanks guys, sorry about that, just too lazy to read it without "YES IT WILL INCREASE PERFORMANCE" I guess, which is my fault. Sorry about that, from now on I'll actually read this stuff in depth

 

[djbbenn]

Hey no problem, done it myself before. Didn't read enought and the anwser was write there.

-Dan

 

[AMDCam]

15th warlock, why is your fsb so slow first of all, and what did you do to get 1,000 points over me? I mean my RAM still hasn't shipped so I'm not overclocking my processor until I get the good stuff, but that's the only thing I can think of. Will a processor give 1,000 extra points? Thanks

Check out this comparison of my best run to your points:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3704977

one more thing, in Adrian's Rojak Pot, what does he mean 8.3 format for renaming my BIOS? I mean I know I can make it shorter, but how do I change the format?

 

[geeman74]

15th warlock, why is your fsb so slow first of all, and what did you do to get 1,000 points over me? I mean my RAM still hasn't shipped so I'm not overclocking my processor until I get the good stuff, but that's the only thing I can think of. Will a processor give 1,000 extra points? Thanks

Check out this comparison of my best run to your points:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3704977

one more thing, in Adrian's Rojak Pot, what does he mean 8.3 format for renaming my BIOS? I mean I know I can make it shorter, but how do I change the format?

both your scores are low
i know my oc is higher but your cpu speed is (sort of) better

 

[15th Warlock]

15th warlock, why is your fsb so slow first of all, and what did you do to get 1,000 points over me? I mean my RAM still hasn't shipped so I'm not overclocking my processor until I get the good stuff, but that's the only thing I can think of. Will a processor give 1,000 extra points? Thanks

Check out this comparison of my best run to your points:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3704977

one more thing, in Adrian's Rojak Pot, what does he mean 8.3 format for renaming my BIOS? I mean I know I can make it shorter, but how do I change the format?

Well, my proc supports 533 Mhz FSB, and I know 590 Mhz isn't too much, but that's as far as I intend to push it with stock cooling, and other problem I have, is, as my mobo doesn't *officially* support OCing, I had to try some "hacks" to OC it, but I cannot read the clocks of my PCI/AGP buses, so, I don't wnat to burn my audigy or my radeon either
He's probably referring to DOS 8.3 file name format, that means, your BIOS file name shouldn't be more than 8 characters long, or else, DOS won't recognize it and you'll have to use a ~1 thing for the name.

And geeman, your Athlon64 proc is much faster than my pitty P4, that's why you get almost 600 marks more than me and besides, was it necessary to show us the score you get with that X850XT?? *drools*

 

[geeman74]

Well, my proc supports 533 Mhz FSB, and I know 590 Mhz isn't too much, but that's as far as I intend to push it with stock cooling, and other problem I have, is, as my mobo doesn't *officially* support OCing, I had to try some "hacks" to OC it, but I cannot read the clocks of my PCI/AGP buses, so, I don't wnat to burn my audigy or my radeon either
He's probably referring to DOS 8.3 file name format, that means, your BIOS file name shouldn't be more than 8 characters long, or else, DOS won't recognize it and you'll have to use a ~1 thing for the name.

And geeman, your Athlon64 proc is much faster than my pitty P4, that's why you get almost 600 marks more than me and besides, was it necessary to show us the score you get with that X850XT?? *drools*

i could of showed you my 2001 score with my x850xt lol
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8551682
oops

or my 05 score that nearly beats your 03 score
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=800952

my best 05 score with my 9800xt was with my 2600+ xp not my 64bit couldnt get near it about 1000 off
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=235383

 

[15th Warlock]

i could of showed you my 2001 score with my x850xt lol
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8551682
oops

or my 05 score that nearly beats your 03 score
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=800952

my best 05 score with my 9800xt was with my 2600+ xp not my 64bit couldnt get near it about 1000 off
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=235383

So unfair....