GTX 560 Ti Debate

[WarpedHorizon]

Just the other day I was excited that I had decided what graphics card I was going to buy. Then today the new GTX 560 Ti 448 Core launched, and now I'm again unsure. I had decided on the MSI GTX 560 Ti Hawk, it meets my goals for noise, heat and overclockability. But the 448 core is a faster, especially when overclocked, and only $50 more. Only it's a limited edition, so in a year or so when I'm starting to think about adding SLI I probably won't be able to find one. As it stands, with a $250 graphics card my budget has a $210 surplus for an SSD and a (used) hard drive (), so the extra $50 spent on a graphics card still leaves me with $160 left for storage. Should I stick with the normal 560 Ti or take advantage of the 448 core versions better performance?
For reference my build is aimed at gaming and video editing on a tight budget, the components I have so far are: i5-2500k (Microcenter Black Friday deal), Asus P8Z68-V (another Microcenter deal), 8 gb Vengeance LP ram, 700 W OCZ Modstream power supply, a 23" HD Acer monitor (Newegg Black friday deal), and a free coolermaster case. Components I'm going to buy- Hyper 212 Evo, Windows 7, harddrive(s), and mouse/keyboard/speakers.

 

[newtekie1]

I say go for the GTX565...errr....um...GTX560 Ti 448. The extra power and RAM should come in handy in the next year.

As for finding another for SLI in a year or so, either way you go, the card is going to be hard to find. The GTX560 Ti will have been replaced by then, and pickings will be slim.

 

[Jetster]

$300 for a 560 Ti did I read that right? Or is it $250 after the extra $50 Im gonna pass, especially if its a limited addition. There are better options

 

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

$300 for a 560 Ti did I read that right? Or is it $250 after the extra $50 Im gonna pass, especially if its a limited addition. There are better options

If so, spend $50 more and get an asus GTX 570 DCII card.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

GTX 560 = OC'd GTX460 1GB with better power utilization
GTX 560 Ti = OC'd GTX 460 1GB on steroids with better power utilization
GTX 560 Ti 448 cores = OC'd GTX 470 with better power utilization

Don't you love what Nvidea does does with old parts?

 

[newtekie1]

GTX 560 = OC'd GTX460 1GB with better power utilization
GTX 560 Ti = OC'd GTX 460 1GB on steroids with better power utilization
GTX 560 Ti 448 cores = OC'd GTX 470 with better power utilization

Don't you love what Nvidea does does with old parts?

AMD does the same you know. At least nVidia is "updating" the cores and increase the clock speeds, AMD doesn't even bother to do that...

 

[theJesus]

i5-2500k (Microcenter Black Friday deal), Asus P8Z68-V (another Microcenter deal), 8 gb Vengeance LP ram

omg, that's like all the same stuff I just bought

I have a normal 560 Ti and I'm satisfied with it. I looked at the benches and I don't think the extra performance from the new one is worth the $50. Plus, it's a lot louder under load.

 

[WarpedHorizon]

$300 for a 560 Ti did I read that right? Or is it $250 after the extra $50 Im gonna pass, especially if its a limited addition. There are better options

The "normal" 560 Ti is around $250-270, the 448 core ranges from $290-$320.
I'm not too worried about finding GTX 560 Ti's in the future, heck, you can still find GTX 460s places! So around this time next year I think there will still be some stock hanging around.

 

[Jetster]

But for $280 you can get a 6950 2Gb

 

[newtekie1]

But for $280 you can get a 6950 2Gb

Yeah, you could, but the HD6950 2GB performs the same as the standard GTX560 Ti, and obviously worse than the GTX560 Ti 448...

 

[John Doe]

Yeah, you could, but the HD6950 2GB performs the same as the standard GTX560 Ti, and obviously worse than the GTX560 Ti 448...

Except you can get this

MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III 1G/OC Radeon HD 6950 1GB ...

which is cheaper, comes with a solid cooler on top of high current inductors, unlockable...

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2428930&postcount=46

and make a guess from this chart. On it's performance once OC'ed beyond 6970 speeds. But I guess that's bit too much for your nVidia favoritism, eh?

 

[Completely Bonkers]

I don't buy into "SLI next year, with last year's models".

SLI today, or next year sell the 560 and buy the latest card... which will give a similar performance for similar total investment (incl. resale value of old card) at much lower power consumption.

 

[newtekie1]

Except you can get this

MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III 1G/OC Radeon HD 6950 1GB ...

which is cheaper, comes with a solid cooler on top of high current inductors, unlockable...

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2428930&postcount=46

and make a guess from this chart. On it's performance once OC'ed beyond 6970 speeds. But I guess that's bit too much for your nVidia favoritism, eh?

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_560_Ti/images/perfrel_1920.gif

Yes, you are correct, it also isn't $280. If he had said you can get an HD 6950 2GB for $260, my comment would have been different.

Of course, what you linked to is the 1GB model, which isn't known to unlock. But I'm guessing your AMD Favoritism blinded you to those facts, you were just too caught up in the rage of someone else not bowing down to AMD being god that you didn't notice these little details.

The 2GB version you are trying to prove a point with is actually $300. Though if he is thinking of the GTX560 Ti 448, I would definitely put that card in the running, assuming he is willing to risk the unlock.

 

[John Doe]

Of course, what you linked to is the 1GB model, which isn't known to unlock. But I'm guessing your AMD Favoritism blinded you to those facts, you were just too caught up in the rage of someone else not bowing down to AMD being god that you didn't notice these little details.

It's the core that decides on the unlock, not the memory size. Yes, some manufactorers might change revisions between 1 and 2 GB versions, though that's not the case here. Both are unlockable; I've seen it over OCN. And even if it isn't, you can short out two resistors, then unlock.

The 2GB version you are trying to prove a point with is actually $300. Though if he is thinking of the GTX560 Ti 448, I would definitely put that card in the running, assuming he is willing to risk the unlock.

Risking the unlock... it's not the unlock that adds most the performance actually. It's clock speeds with these cards. See W1zzard's article on it. These are Twin-Frozr's, so no limitation of weak stock cooler of the Cayman GPU. It'll OC. And when it does, it'd be a better choice than your belowed, limited nVidia board, which doesn't have as much OC'ing headroom as a good 6950.

 

[LordJummy]

Yes, you are correct, it also isn't $280. If he had said you can get an HD 6950 2GB for $260, my comment would have been different.

Of course, what you linked to is the 1GB model, which isn't known to unlock. But I'm guessing your AMD Favoritism blinded you to those facts, you were just too caught up in the rage of someone else not bowing down to AMD being god that you didn't notice these little details.

The 2GB version you are trying to prove a point with is actually $300. Though if he is thinking of the GTX560 Ti 448, I would definitely put that card in the running, assuming he is willing to risk the unlock.

Just to clarify, you can unlock the 1GB models shaders the same as the 2GB. Same core.

 

[Crap Daddy]

If the OP is also interested in video editing and uses Premiere Pro the Nvidia is the way to go although CS5.5 supports only 570 and 580 but I've read that there's a posiibility to unlock lower end cards. On the other hand lately (good) games tend to use more VRAM so I'd definitely choose the 448 core Ti with 1280 MB over the one GB model 6950. Better still would be a 2GB 6950, check prices.

 

[newtekie1]

It's the core that decides on the unlock, not the memory size. Yes, some manufactorers might change revisions between 1 and 2 GB versions, though that's not the case here. Both are unlockable; I've seen it over OCN. And even if it isn't, you can short out two resistors, then unlock.



Risking the unlock... it's not the unlock that adds most the performance actually. It's clock speeds with these cards. See W1zzard's article on it. These are Twin-Frozr's, so no limitation of weak stock cooler of the Cayman GPU. It'll OC. And when it does, it'd be a better choice than your belowed, limited nVidia board, which doesn't have as much OC'ing headroom as a good 6950.

Doesn't have as much headroom as a good 6950? W1z's review of the 6950 TF III only gave it a 14% overclock without voltage increases, the TF III 560 448 got 15%. He didn't do voltage increases on the HD 560 Ti TF III, but I'm guessing it would still manage a better overclock than the HD 6950, 25% shouldn't be out of the question with the TF III GTX560 448.

Oh, and then there is the fact that the GTX560 Ti 448 starts with a 10% head start in performance already...

But again, I was just responding to the original comment about any old generic HD6950 for $280. As I said, I'd put the HD 6950 TF III card in the running if the OP was looking to spend that kind of money. Sorry if you rampant AMD fanboyism made you glance over that point.

 

[WarpedHorizon]

I should stop thinking.....

So I got to thinking today- SLI was more as a gimick than a real performance nessesity, and I should probably chose the best single card solution. I like the 560 Ti's alot, but part of me thinks I should explore AMD a bit more. I can get the 6950 with the same MSI parts, more Vram, and the ability to reflash for a lot more speed, for $30 less than the 448 core. And with the launch with the new 7000 series prices should come down. Any thoughts?

 

[LordJummy]

So I got to thinking today- SLI was more as a gimick than a real performance nessesity, and I should probably chose the best single card solution. I like the 560 Ti's alot, but part of me almost thinks I should explore AMD a bit more. I can get the 6950 with the same MSI parts, more Vram, and the ability to reflash for a lot more speed, for $30 less than the 448 core. And with the launch with the new 7000 series prices should come down. Any thoughts?

From an unbiased perspective I would say go for the 2GB 6950 (reference if possible for quality pcb and components). My reference 6950 is INCREDIBLE. It overclocked to about 1100MHz (on air. haven't tested it with water). It actually overclocked higher than both of my 6970's. It is a powerful card, and it really shines at high resolutions with texture mods, etc. The 2GB vram is very nice for new games and mods.

My main computer is a dual 6970 setup + a 6950 at the moment.

My secondary computer is same intel platform, but with dual reference gtx 480's. I really love the performance of the sli 480's, but my 6970's seem to outshine them a bit with my triple screen setup. The VRAM comes into play especially when i'm running high end dx11 games, and stuff that has super high res textures.

I would recommend the 6950 2GB if you're to get a single card, want to be able to tinker with it and unlock/OC, and like to turn up the eye candy while playing at high resolutions. I can't speak for the 448 core 560Ti personally.


*EDIT: if using CS5 is your main concern, go with a gtx 480 or a 570. I think adobe only supports cuda.

 

[newtekie1]

So I got to thinking today- SLI was more as a gimick than a real performance nessesity, and I should probably chose the best single card solution. I like the 560 Ti's alot, but part of me thinks I should explore AMD a bit more. I can get the 6950 with the same MSI parts, more Vram, and the ability to reflash for a lot more speed, for $30 less than the 448 core. And with the launch with the new 7000 series prices should come down. Any thoughts?

I don't think prices will come down with the launch of the 7000 series, people always hope for that, but I don't see it happening all that often. What usually happens is that supplies starts to dry up as the launch nears, and the older cards that should be going down in price, end up staying at the same price due to supply being low. Then after launch, the prices don't tend to come down nearly as much as they should.

Going with an AMD card is definitely worth looking into, and if you can get the HD6950 2GB for cheaper than the GTX560 Ti 448, as I said, it is definitely a card worth looking at.

 

[John Doe]

Doesn't have as much headroom as a good 6950? W1z's review of the 6950 TF III only gave it a 14% overclock without voltage increases, the TF III 560 448 got 15%. He didn't do voltage increases on the HD 560 Ti TF III, but I'm guessing it would still manage a better overclock than the HD 6950, 25% shouldn't be out of the question with the TF III GTX560 448.

Oh, and then there is the fact that the GTX560 Ti 448 starts with a 10% head start in performance already...

But again, I was just responding to the original comment about any old generic HD6950 for $280. As I said, I'd put the HD 6950 TF III card in the running if the OP was looking to spend that kind of money. Sorry if you rampant AMD fanboyism made you glance over that point.

%25? Uhm, yeah. Maths? You know %25 of a 560 Ti 448 equals about 900 on core right? Good luck with that. I think you should re-read what's written here, especially Jummy's post to inform yourself on this GPU. The Cayman GPU is argueably the best budget choice. 6950's OC beyond 6970 speeds, which means better performance than a 560 Ti 448. The 560 Ti 448 is a crippled 570, you can't expect it to OC like a solid 6950.

The only fanboy here is you. It's centered around you no matter how hard you try to hide it.

"AMD does the same you know. At least nVidia is "updating" the cores and increase the clock speeds, AMD doesn't even bother to do that..."

See? Oh well.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I have both a 560Ti and a 2GB 6950 (currently fully flashed to 6970) on a dual Bios. What I can tell you about the 6950 (without the flash) is thats it's a damn nice card, mine overclocks to 930mhz without voltage adjustment. My 560Ti overclocks to 995mhz without voltage adjustment and feels faster and snappier.

The same really applies with raised voltages, in so much as the 560Ti maintains a healthy Mhz lead over the 6950 which has less headroom for overclocking as mine seems to be limited to 965mhz no matter how much voltage I put through it, where as, I can do a fairly small hike on the 560 to 1.050V and get 1050mhz.

All in all, they are both fine cards, if I was buying just one based on what I know now and it was between a 1GB 6950 or a 560Ti I would simply say go with the cheaper, either way you won't be dissapointed. I suppose the only thing I could add to that is, that if you do not overclock, then I would probably just about go for the 6950. As for the special edition..... nice card from the sound of it but I would save my money, to be honest you will have enough with either of these other 2 cards, remembering that a 560ti @ around 1000mhz equates to a stock clocked 570 in performance.

 

[John Doe]

The plain 560 Ti is a Mhz-based card like the 460 before it. It makes up for it's lack of shader power from high clock speeds. The new one (448) core is based on a 570 and function at lower frequencies, while packing more ROP's/vRAM etc.

A 6950 will beat a plain 560 Ti at the same clocks. There technically is no such thing as "feeling snappier". It's a placebo effect. Look at the chart I posted at the center of the thread. Plain 560 Ti gets slapped by a 6950, whether it's at stock or OC'ed over 6970 speeds.

 

[LordJummy]

%25? Uhm, yeah. Maths? You know %25 of a 560 Ti 448 equals about 900 on core right? Good luck with that. I think you should re-read what's written here, especially Jummy's post to inform yourself on this GPU. The Cayman GPU is argueably the best budget choice. 6950's OC beyond 6970 speeds, which means better performance than a 560 Ti 448. The 560 Ti 448 is a crippled 570, you can't expect it to OC like a solid 6950.

The only fanboy here is you. It's centered around you no matter how hard you try to hide it.

"AMD does the same you know. At least nVidia is "updating" the cores and increase the clock speeds, AMD doesn't even bother to do that..."

See? Oh well.

We've had differences in the past, but I have to agree with you here.

Right on the money.

 

[Tatty_Two]

The plain 560 Ti is a Mhz-based card like the 460 before it. It makes up for it's lack of shader power from high clock speeds. The new one (448) core is based on a 570 and function at lower frequencies, while packing more ROP's/vRAM etc.

A 6950 will beat a plain 560 Ti at the same clocks. There technically is no such thing as "feeling snappier". It's a placebo effect. Look at the chart I posted at the center of the thread. Plain 560 Ti gets slapped by a 6950, whether it's at stock or OC'ed over 6970 speeds.

Snappier includes FPS in the couple of games I play and i clearly didnt say "the same clocks" (I specifically made reference to overclocking, hence why i said if you dont overclock then I would probably recommend the 6950) and my point is, my 560 (so I guess some others) have greater overclocking headroom against their 6950 counterparts, with that headroom comes performance.... simple really.......... I do not come to this conclusion lightly, especially after having enjoyed (and still do) the use of a 6950/6970 for well over a year.