• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

PCI Express 3.0 Has Zero Performance Incentive for Radeon HD 7970: Tests

Tenxu24

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
10 (0.00/day)
 

sneekypeet

Retired Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
29,407 (4.48/day)
System Name EVA-01
Processor Intel i7 13700K
Motherboard Asus ROG Maximus Z690 HERO EVA Edition
Cooling ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 with Noctua Industrial Fans
Memory PAtriot Viper Elite RGB 96GB @ 6000MHz.
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3090 24GB OC EVA Edition
Storage Addlink S95 M.2 PCIe GEN 4x4 2TB
Display(s) Asus ROG SWIFT OLED PG42UQ
Case Thermaltake Core P3 TG
Audio Device(s) Realtek on board > Sony Receiver > Cerwin Vegas
Power Supply be quiet DARK POWER PRO 12 1500W
Mouse ROG STRIX Impact Electro Punk
Keyboard ROG STRIX Scope TKL Electro Punk
Software Windows 11
Higher bandwidth for inter-GPU communication is needed, period.

So when I heard this was implemented for PCIE raid cards for SSDs that were already thrashing the bandwidth of 2.0, that was all made up?
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
396 (0.07/day)
System Name Just A Gaming Rig.
Processor AMD FX-8320 @4.1GHz, 1.268V
Motherboard ASUS M5A97 Evo R2.0
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Memory 8 GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600MHz
Video Card(s) Club 3D R9 280X 3GB royalQueen, @1115/1615MHz
Storage OS+Often used stuff: Kingston SSDNow V300 120GB, Mass storage: WD Blue 1TB
Case Zalman Z3 Plus
Audio Device(s) Integrated
Power Supply Corsair CX600M
Software Windows 8.1 64-bit
For single card configs, PCI-E 3.0 is not required. But P67 and Z68 only have 16x lanes, so it might be useful for running two cards in Crossfire.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.63/day)
So when I heard this was implemented for PCIE raid cards for SSDs that were already thrashing the bandwidth of 2.0, that was all made up?

Can't tell ya, I was never sent the PCIe SSD to confirm as I was promised by a certain OEM. In fact, that particular OEM stopped sending me stuff, period, so screw 'em. Yeah, faked, 100%, and all the reviews done with a PCIe SSD with the board in question were faked, too.:rolleyes:

Besides, your memory fails you...PCIe SSDs, not RAID cards(ie RevoDrives). Could have simply been BIOS-level tweaks, even.
 

sneekypeet

Retired Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
29,407 (4.48/day)
System Name EVA-01
Processor Intel i7 13700K
Motherboard Asus ROG Maximus Z690 HERO EVA Edition
Cooling ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 with Noctua Industrial Fans
Memory PAtriot Viper Elite RGB 96GB @ 6000MHz.
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 3090 24GB OC EVA Edition
Storage Addlink S95 M.2 PCIe GEN 4x4 2TB
Display(s) Asus ROG SWIFT OLED PG42UQ
Case Thermaltake Core P3 TG
Audio Device(s) Realtek on board > Sony Receiver > Cerwin Vegas
Power Supply be quiet DARK POWER PRO 12 1500W
Mouse ROG STRIX Impact Electro Punk
Keyboard ROG STRIX Scope TKL Electro Punk
Software Windows 11
I was thinking more of Raid cards (SAS maybe) not the revo's. Your "period" at the end made me question what I heard.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.63/day)
I don't blame you. I question it myself.


Particularily because we know Ivy-Bridge samples are floating around, so real PCIe 3.0 tests could have been done.

No need for SAS cards when X79 has SAS built-in. The X79 enthusiast SKU has these ports disabled, but that's not the only SKU. OEMs can use other "Patsburg" chipsets and enable the functionality, if so desired, but it's going be with a more expensive chipset. PCie 3.0 isn't used to connect Intel's PCH's to the CPU, so I see that particular list of components to be sub-optimal anyway, as most PCIe ports that would take a RAID card wil lbe running off of the PCH.

Intel designates PCIe 3.0 from the CPU as for graphics(check official chipset diagrams). I can't even check currently if putting RAID cards or a PCIe SSD into one of the ports works, even. I had legitimate reasons for wanting a PCIe SSD, but I'm wasting my time trying to get one for board testing purposes.

So, this question about PCIe 3.0 increasing performance, for anything, cannot be done at this time, but that's not new news. Doesn't matter if it's VGAs or SSDs.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
2,067 (0.41/day)
System Name The Stone that the Builders Refused / iJayo
Processor R5 1600/ R7 3700X
Motherboard Asrock AB350 Pro4 / Asus Rog Strix B450-F gaming
Cooling Cryorig M9 / Noctua NH-D14
Memory G skill 16 Gigs ddr4 / 16 gigs PNY ddr4
Video Card(s) Nvdia GTX 660 / Nvidia RTX 2070 Super
Storage 120gig 840 evo, 120gig adata sp900 / 1tb Mushkin M.2 ssd 1 & 3 tb seagate hdd, 120 gig Hyper X ssd
Display(s) 42" Nec retail display monitor/ 34" Dell curved 165hz monitor
Case Pink Enermax Ostrog / Phanteks Enthoo Evolv Tempered Glass edition
Audio Device(s) Altec Lansing Expressionist Bass/ M-Audio monitors
Power Supply Corsair450 / Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 650
Mouse corsair vengence M65 / Zalman Knossos
Keyboard corsair k95 / Roccat Vulcan 121
Software Window 10 pro / Windows 10 pro
Benchmark Scores meh... feel me on the battle field!
When ivy comes out are the only tests I want to see
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
38 (0.01/day)
Location
Sliven,Bulgaria
System Name GamingMachine :)
Processor Phenom II X2 550BE Unlocked Quad Core X4 B50 3.1ghz
Motherboard Asus M4A88T-M
Cooling Zalman CNPS9500 AM2
Memory 2x4gb A-Data 1600mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte HD7870 2GB Windforce 3X
Storage WD Caviar Blue 640GB 7200RPM 32MB
Display(s) Philips 200vw 20"
Case Point of View AluLite
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair CX600
Software Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
I think its too early for 3.0 Express. The Cards are not using the full potencial of PCI Express 2.0, and they want to introduce the new Expess 3.0 ?!:eek:
 
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
2,270 (0.42/day)
Location
the uk that's all you need to know ;)
System Name not very good (wants throwing out window most of time)
Processor xp3000@ 2.17ghz pile of sh** /i7 920 DO on air for now
Motherboard msi kt6 delta oap /gigabyte x58 ud7 (rev1.0)
Cooling 1 green akasa 8cm(rear) 1 multicoloured akasa(hd) 1 12 cm (intake) 1 9cm with circuit from old psu
Memory 1.25 gb kingston hyperx @333mhz/ 3gb corsair dominator xmp 1600mhz
Video Card(s) (agp) hd3850 not bad not really suitable for mobo n processor/ gb hd5870
Storage wd 320gb + samsung 320 gig + wd 1tb 6gb/s
Display(s) compaq mv720
Case thermaltake XaserIII skull / coolermaster cm 690II
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply corsair hx 650 w which solved many problems (blew up) /850w corsair
Software xp pro sp3/ ? win 7 ultimate (32 bit)
Benchmark Scores 6543 3d mark05 ye ye not good but look at the processor /uknown as still not benched
i'd love to see someone create a ps2/latest console emulator, that could use this new tech to it's full potential (yes i own 2 ps2's plus numerous other consoles , just i love being able to play my games on one system)

i'm also curious as to how emulators work on these new 2011 motherboards with win7

ye ye wrong place to talk about it ,but usually not many emulator fans have the latest tec :(

my i7 920 can play alot of the ps2/gamecube titles i have ,but some are still suffering from bad frame rates
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
2,202 (0.46/day)
System Name Ultima
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard MSI Mag B550M Mortar
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 rev4 w/ Ryzen offset mount
Memory G.SKill Ripjaws V 2x16GB DDR4 3600
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 12GB Dual
Storage WD Black SN850X 2TB Gen4, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB , 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD sata,
Display(s) ASUS TUF VG249Q3A 24" 1080p 165-180Hz VRR
Case DarkFlash DLM21 Mesh
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200 Audio/Nvidia HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM650
Mouse Steelseries Rival 3 Wireless | Wacom Intuos CTH-480
Keyboard A4Tech B314 Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
2,452 (0.41/day)
System Name PC
Processor i7 9700KF
Motherboard MSI Z390 A PRO
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000mhz
Video Card(s) PALIT RTX 4070 Dual 12Gb
Storage 2X Crucial MX500 2TB SSD, Samsung 850 pro 512gb SSD
Display(s) DELL C34H89x 34" Ultrawide
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D
Audio Device(s) Audioengine A5+ Speakers
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G403
Keyboard Corsair Vengeance K70
Software Windows 10 64bit
The results are in: zero, nada, zilch, sunna (zero in my language).

So whats new, same story when PCI-E 2.0 came out, but rest assured components will saturate it soon ;)
 

Nyte

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
181 (0.03/day)
Location
Toronto ON
Processor i7 x980
Motherboard Asus SuperComputer
Memory 3x 2GB Triple Channel
Video Card(s) 2x Tahiti
Storage 2x OCZ SSD
Display(s) 23 inch
Power Supply 1 kW
Software Win 7 Ultimate
Benchmark Scores Very high!
Hi,

I'm the lead PCI-Express systems engineer over @ AMD Markham that brought up PCI-E 3.0 for this generation of GPUs. I would like to contact the author of that article but I can't find this email address. If someone would be so kind as to put me in contact with him that would be great.

I have a inkling feeling that he isn't even running at Gen3 speeds so I'd like to confirm his configuration and setup (setting a CMOS option does not guarantee anything contrary to user-experience belief).


Stephen
 

josejones

New Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
2 (0.00/day)
My understanding is that in order to get true PCIe 3.0 support every link in the chain must support PCIe 3. Otherwise, it can only be as good as the weakest link in that chain i.e. mobo, chipsets, CPU, GPU etc.

Nyte "I'm the lead PCI-Express systems engineer over @ AMD Markham that brought up PCI-E 3.0 for this generation of GPUs."

Nyte, (Stephen with AMD) when will AMD be coming out with motherboards that have full PCIe 3.0 support? Intel's gen 3 mobos have been out for months now. I'm not aware of AMD even mentioning them.

Where's the AMD mobos w/PCI Ex. 3.0 promised would be here by now?

I ask because I'm ready for my next build but with the work that I do I need full PCIe 3 support so, that's what I'm waiting for.

Please ask AMD to make a video at their youtube ch. explaining how PCIe 3.0 works and what all it is used for. I see too many gamers not understanding that it's not just for games. Some of us actually have WORK to do.
 
Last edited:

Nyte

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
181 (0.03/day)
Location
Toronto ON
Processor i7 x980
Motherboard Asus SuperComputer
Memory 3x 2GB Triple Channel
Video Card(s) 2x Tahiti
Storage 2x OCZ SSD
Display(s) 23 inch
Power Supply 1 kW
Software Win 7 Ultimate
Benchmark Scores Very high!
My understanding is that in order to get true PCIe 3.0 support every link in the chain must support PCIe 3. Otherwise, it can only be as good as the weakest link in that chain i.e. mobo, chipsets, CPU, GPU etc.

Nyte "I'm the lead PCI-Express systems engineer over @ AMD Markham that brought up PCI-E 3.0 for this generation of GPUs."

Nyte, (Stephen with AMD) when will AMD be coming out with motherboards that have full PCIe 3.0 support? Intel's gen 3 mobos have been out for months now. I'm not aware of AMD even mentioning them.

Where's the AMD mobos w/PCI Ex. 3.0 promised would be here by now?

I ask because I'm ready for my next build but with the work that I do I need full PCIe 3 support so, that's what I'm waiting for.

Please ask AMD to make a video at their youtube ch. explaining how PCIe 3.0 works and what all it is used for. I see too many gamers not understanding that it's not just for games. Some of us actually have WORK to do.

Unfortunately I can't comment on our 3.0 chipset availability due to conflict-of-interest related stuff. Instead, what I can say is this, would it make sense for AMD to NEVER release a 3.0 chipset and let Intel take free reign of that market segment? I'm sure you know the answer to that.

You are also correct that the ultimate throughput of the end-to-end link is constrained to the lowest performing link in the hierarchy. That is not all though, the more "links" you add in this topology, the greater delay you induce. A longer delay will ultimately starve the PCIe credit/debit based transaction system causing stalls (or rather idle "bubbles" to appear over the link). This leads to inefficiency. Unfortunately though, it's very hard to even saturate a PCIe 3.0 x16 link in the first place due to other system related bottlenecks (notably the CPU).

A Youtube video is a great idea, I'll have to ping the marketing departments for that though (I'm in the engineering department). I'll gladly answer any technical questions you have regarding PCIe 3.0 because it isn't a company trade secret.

You are correct in that PCIe 3.0 is not geared purely for games... there are many market segments that this is valid in which is not apparent to gamers:
1. Netbooks/Notebook PCB layouts that use less than x16 lanes (for routing issues or lowering material costs) can run at Gen3 to offset the reduced width to equalize performance.
2. Compute heavy (GPGPU) applications. Geared towards server markets.
3. Same as point number 1 but applying to desktop motherboards.
4. Various internal reasons which unfortunately I can't mention but I can say something like "transportability of the PCIe IP to other subsystems".
5. And final reason: future-proofing and it gives engineers a job :).
 

josejones

New Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
2 (0.00/day)
Thanks for your response, Nyte. I'm no A+ certified or IT PC guy so, I don't know enough about it to ask legit questions beyond the basics. I'd just like to be made aware of exactly what I can expect from the new PCIe 3 standard as well as what I shouldn't expect or its limitations. I'd like to know specifically what software/applications will benefit most from this doubling of bandwidth. And maybe even a sneak peak at PCIe 4 since they're already talking about it which will double the bandwidth again.

We have a small business where we have to do everything ourselves now to cut overhead - we build our own websites, make our own product description videos, create our own books, covers, images etc. We work with the Adobe Creative Suite, Photo Shop, Premier, Word and more almost everyday.

And don't tell anyone but, I sneak in a little online gaming now and again ... ssshhhh. Wondering how much that new Gigabit Ethernet LAN really helps but that's a different topic.
 

Revisionfx

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
slow transfer from x79 mobo to 7970?

Hi,

I'm the lead PCI-Express systems engineer over @ AMD Markham that brought up PCI-E 3.0 for this generation of GPUs. I would like to contact the author of that article but I can't find this email address.
Stephen


Hi Stephen,

We have 7970 on both
Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 i7 i5 i3 LGA1155 Z68 DDR3
and
Asus RAMPAGE IV Extreme i7 X79 LGA 2011 DDR3 PCIE
(yes tried their latest bios upgrade)

Transfering data via openCL from RAM to GPU is at least twice (if not more) slower on second motherboard, have any clue?

Pierre (never posted here so I am not sure I will receive a response to thread), so:
jasmin at revisionfx dot com
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.31/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Unfortunately I can't comment on our 3.0 chipset availability due to conflict-of-interest related stuff. Instead, what I can say is this, would it make sense for AMD to NEVER release a 3.0 chipset and let Intel take free reign of that market segment? I'm sure you know the answer to that.

You are also correct that the ultimate throughput of the end-to-end link is constrained to the lowest performing link in the hierarchy. That is not all though, the more "links" you add in this topology, the greater delay you induce. A longer delay will ultimately starve the PCIe credit/debit based transaction system causing stalls (or rather idle "bubbles" to appear over the link). This leads to inefficiency. Unfortunately though, it's very hard to even saturate a PCIe 3.0 x16 link in the first place due to other system related bottlenecks (notably the CPU).

A Youtube video is a great idea, I'll have to ping the marketing departments for that though (I'm in the engineering department). I'll gladly answer any technical questions you have regarding PCIe 3.0 because it isn't a company trade secret.

You are correct in that PCIe 3.0 is not geared purely for games... there are many market segments that this is valid in which is not apparent to gamers:
1. Netbooks/Notebook PCB layouts that use less than x16 lanes (for routing issues or lowering material costs) can run at Gen3 to offset the reduced width to equalize performance.
2. Compute heavy (GPGPU) applications. Geared towards server markets.
3. Same as point number 1 but applying to desktop motherboards.
4. Various internal reasons which unfortunately I can't mention but I can say something like "transportability of the PCIe IP to other subsystems".
5. And final reason: future-proofing and it gives engineers a job :).
Is there any chance of some ltd compatibility or bios upgrade to full pciex 3 for 990fx boards,obv thinkin of my own
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
They tested at 1024x600 !? That's netbook territory, how the hell is it suppose to saturate the PCIe bus at all!? You need to test with very high resolution, very high detail and very high levels of FSAA to show some differences. Preferably you need CrossfireX or SLi configuration as well.
Besides, i think the history is repeating with PCIe bus like it did with AGP. All just a theoretical difference but in reality, all the bus versions act pretty much the same.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,457 (1.41/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
PCI-EX 3.0: CrossFire/SLI and Dual GPU cards. Also test in resolution HD and beyond. This is how you need to make tests, not on a single GPU card...:shadedshu
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,147 (2.96/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
PCI-EX 3.0: CrossFire/SLI and Dual GPU cards. Also test in resolution HD and beyond. This is how you need to make tests, not on a single GPU card...:shadedshu

Or the benchmark can be done right?


Source
 
Top