Your Opinion on NEW Amd Rebrand's & "Fiji" Gpu's

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

I remember a few years ago when nVIDIA was rebranding cards and people were furious (dont ask what ones because I dont remember. May have been with the GTX 5xx series or the series before that). But now that AMD is doing it, there isnt the backlash like what nVIDIA got.

 

[AsRock]

@crazyeyesreaper Thinking about it a little more, from my perspective, it's not just about performance comparisons with NVIDIA any more. I'm questioning the stability of this company to be around with driver updates in the years to come. Am I really happy to drop £300-500 on one of their products just to have the company go bust or give lousy driver support afterwards? No, of course not.

Of course, this does nothing for their bottom line so if more people thought like me that would only hasten their demise. This is the hole they've dug themselves into and must now get out of, it's not my responsibility to help them. They might do it with their current strategy, but I suspect that a better one now would be to get bought out by a rich company, like I suggested earlier.

I've just seen your second post to me while writing this one and you frankly sound like an AMD apologist to me.

Again with the driver BS, why would they put all the effort in to win 7 drivers when most people will be moving to Win10. Even people who don't know much about computer will be changing it. And i have noticed they keep updating the win10 drivers to make them as good as they can by the end of THIS month.

In the end i am glad that AMD are putting more effort in to win 10 drivers than some thing that's going be replaced by so many people.

nVidia did some win7 WHQL drivers and to me they were not all that good.

Cannot say the latest nvidia drivers were all that good tbh and should take a notice of what AMD is doing and make theirs as good as possible but more money than sense i guess.

And i have had no issue's with AMD drivers at all, sure CF updates are needed but i am sure time spent on W10 drivers are much more important.

 

[Bill_Bright]

All this fuss is nonsense!

AMD was initially founded to manufacture "Intel" processors so IBM could have a second source for the original IBM PC. No one complained about that! Why? Because it meant cheaper prices for us consumers!

Almost every PSU maker rebrands their PSUs.

Almost every RAM maker buys their RAM chips from someone else.

Motherboard makers, even ASUS, a major OEM supplier, just assemble parts made by a bunch of other manufacturers.

Motorola and TI and more than another dozen manufacturers have been making microprocessors for others for decades.

This is not despicable. This is nothing to hate. This is smart business and it means more options and lower costs for us consumers and in my book, that's a good thing.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Their drivers are fine, So what they don't release WHQL, WHQL costs money so lets waste thousands with drivers every couple weeks to make people happy. AMD is doing everything they can to keep cash on hand to make it to a proper launch of Zen and 16 / 14nm GPUs in 2016.

I would say Lisa Su is the first AMD CEO to legitimately try and release a solid product and is doing whats necessary to make it happen. I don't like it but I fully understand what they are doing from a business perspective.

Yes I am an AMD apologist while running a 4960x + GTX 780 having not touched an AMD product in 3 years.

Simple fact check Qubit,

Say AMD spends whatever they got left to make you happy, they go bankrupt, say Samsung buys them instead of keeping them afloat they just collect the IP and say fuck you all the people using AMD products. That is a legit senario that is what Tech companies do they buy each other for IP most of the time. So please explain how I really am an apologist when your arguments have no real logical basis.

AMD is strapped for cash.

Zen is the first CPU design in 4 years from AMD that properly implements SMT. They went CMT to begin with and it bit them in the ass.

GCN is not going anywhere but yea. Lets redesign from the ground up pissing money away for zero performance benefit and ZERO POWER SAVING. Literally look at Tonga its revised but not really any better on power than their other cards. Doing what you want them to do literally serves no purpose it does more damage to the company to begin with.

I don't like prices either but the economy hasnt recovered THAT much. Cash doesn''t go as far as it used to at least in the states anyway. Other than Nvidia priced high people bought shit. You reward them for price gouging and it will continue thats how a free market works. People don't buy prices will drop that simple.

And to be completely honest prices arent that high on the 390x 8gb anyway. 290x 8gb is still $400. $380 with rebates, The Bestbuy price is $449 which has a huge mark up usually Newegg etc is about $50-75 cheaper than Bestbuy.

Regardless at $380-400 the 290x 8gb performs pretty much neck and neck with the GTX 980 at ultra high resolutions while being cheaper. So I don't understand the pricing argument either.

390x 8gb rebrand with faster clock speeds and aftermarket cooling while not as power efficient is still a decent GPU. At ultra high resolutions two cards perform neck and neck with the 980 let alone beating the 970. meanwhile Nvidia doesn't have a gpu in place to properly counter the R9 290 8gb or 390 8gb once it launches.

In summation: Rebrands suck GTF over it bitching and whining doesn't change it. Nothing truly amazing GPU or CPU wise will happen till 2016 anyway.

I think you convinced me to go ahead and buy...almost. I need to know one thing though: is Fury GCN 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? How much is DirectX 12 performance going to suffer between whatever 390X is compared to Fury just from a DirectX implementation standpoint?

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

The thread is asking only my opinion about a "rebranding" of existing products. It doesn't ask about AMD in general, Intel, Nvidia, or any other surrounding circumstances.

To that end, a rebrand is depressing but not unreasonable. TSMC has dropped the ball here, and both AMD and Nvidia are left with a largely crap situation. AMD can only reasonably re-release existing product, with minor performance improvements. There is no other option open to them, and that means there's no reason for people to waste money on the latest cards.



Commenting on the surroundings is more interesting. 2016 seems to be the year GPUs will finally see an appreciable improvement (across all offerings). That isn't to say HBM won't prove interesting, but I don't see any reason to invest in the high end cards of this generation. Honestly, neither Nvidia nor AMD have offered anything substantially better than what we had two generations ago (in the mid-tier price). I managed to get a 7970 near EOL, and that still competes favorably with their current offerings. Nvidia might have done a bit better, but the 3.6 GB of RAM kinda proves that they're out of viable ideas for this generation.

As far as deceit and criminal action, really? If you need a new cards, it doesn't matter whether it's 290x or 390x, the only measurements that matter are cost and performance. If you've already got a high end card, then you're going to do research as to whether the new features justify the costs. AMD only catches stupid consumers with the "need" to upgrade. That isn't really a problem, because those kind of people pay for experiments like HBM. I'd be happy to throw them under the bus, assuming it meant HBM could be funded (and developed) faster.

 

[RejZoR]

Oh but it does. The less we buy this pile of rebranded shit, the more they'll be forced to actually design new stuff instead of rehashing same garbage every year. But hey, go ahead, buy everything they dish out and encourage them even more to do even more of this shit. Then NVIDIA will jump on the same bandwagon more than they are already into it themselves and in the end we, customers will be the ones getting screwed over.

 

[newtekie1]

I have no problem with companies re-using their top card/GPU from the last generation as the mid-range card of the next generation.

It makes sense a lot of the time. When they develop a mid-range card, it is usually 90% identical to the previous generation's high end card anyway, so why not just use the previous generation card and save all that money on R&D?

Oh but it does. The less we buy this pile of rebranded shit, the more they'll be forced to actually design new stuff instead of rehashing same garbage every year. But hey, go ahead, buy everything they dish out and encourage them even more to do even more of this shit. Then NVIDIA will jump on the same bandwagon more than they are already into it themselves and in the end we, customers will be the ones getting screwed over.

That argument would be valid if they were just re-branding GPUs and not coming out with new GPUs. But they are coming out with new GPUs.

 

[Frick]

Oh but it does. The less we buy this pile of rebranded shit, the more they'll be forced to actually design new stuff instead of rehashing same garbage every year. But hey, go ahead, buy everything they dish out and encourage them even more to do even more of this shit. Then NVIDIA will jump on the same bandwagon more than they are already into it themselves and in the end we, customers will be the ones getting screwed over.

If you give them some of your magic smoke they can make something truly amazing. Until you do that (or they move to new nodes, which they will do next year) they're stuck in a bad place. And as the Hoff pointed out, the interesting thing is still price and performance, no matter the name.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

@FordGT90Concept

GCN 1.3 for Fiji 12_0 support
GCN 1.1 for 390X / 290X 12_0 support
GCN 1.0 for 7970 / 280x = 11_1 support

Will it matter going forward not really.

DX12 isn't here yet games don't utilize and won't for sometime. PC side of things we will see quick ports and bad implementations to start with big benefit will be CPU side. However going forward the 390X will show its age and with lack of 12_1 which also effects Fiji mind you means within 2 years or so your SOL. However in 2 years the 290x / 390x will be old news and be 1gen if not 2 gens behind it is what is. Tech moves forward. AMD and Nvidia Sand Bagging each other in games is more likely to have impact than anything else at this point I mean christ Nvidia sand bags their own cards on occasion lol.

DX12 is not implemented yet. Even if it is it requires DX11 support for games anyway this means games going forward would just use DX11. DX12 back ports the CPU fixes to DX11 essentially this means a DX11 GPU still benefits from improvements in Direct X12.

Would buy a GPU today personally? depends on upgrade cycle your on a 5870 so yea id fucking upgrade. GTX 780 ill ride things out till 2016 most likely.

8gb cards are however stupid for 1080p better off finding a 290x 4gb aftermarket cooled option. Should be far cheaper.

even up to 2560x1440 4GB is nominally enough games may show they use the vram but most of the time its just caching and not really necessary.

Price performance an overclocked 290X / 390x is still relevant as to the power issue well. running a 4960x + 780 daily for gaming and then going a month playing games regularly the power bill fluctuated $5. Whoop De Fricking doo. 290x isnt so bad as to make the power bill skyrocket so who cares performance is what matters.

390x is fine in this regard and should be a moderately solid GPU going forward for another year or 2. It won't look old till new process node finally is used.

keep in mind the debate about feature levels requires devs to actually use them

GCN on Xbone doesn't feature the stuff Nvidia is championing. So developers will be slower to implement those features as it costs time and money.

 

[RejZoR]

Dream on about Fiji being GCN 1.3. If they are so fucking lazy not to include GCN 1.2 into R9-390X then you can be pretty sure Fiji is the one using GCN 1.2...

 

[xfia]

I have a feeling there use to be a lot more tech commercials when new tech would arrive with all the latest features but now they just say screw it since people call it a rebrand... even something like this that is moving to a new dx version
ps.. i know of at least 1 game in beta that is dx12 and a hand full being made but i guess we must wait a long time to use our new features according to some^

 

[natr0n]

People losing there minds over relabeled video cards. I think there are more important things in life to lose your mind over.

 

[Fluffmeister]

I remember a few years ago when nVIDIA was rebranding cards and people were furious (dont ask what ones because I dont remember. May have been with the GTX 5xx series or the series before that). But now that AMD is doing it, there isnt the backlash like what nVIDIA got.

AMD can do no wrong, beyond not actually making any money.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Dream on about Fiji being GCN 1.3. If they are so fucking lazy not to include GCN 1.2 into R9-390X then you can be pretty sure Fiji is the one using GCN 1.2...

Even if it isnt 1.3 the feature support level remains the same as 1.2 therefore doesnt matter.

However since the card utilizes an entirely new memory interface it is not a scaled up design but a new design. Therefore it could be 1.2 and AMD could change it 1.3 and it still wouldnt matter because Direct X 12 support would still be 12_0.

 

[GhostRyder]

I think you convinced me to go ahead and buy...almost. I need to know one thing though: is Fury GCN 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? How much is DirectX 12 performance going to suffer between whatever 390X is compared to Fury just from a DirectX implementation standpoint?

Fiji is at least GCN 1.2 (Not sure if there is a GCN 1.3 since Tonga which is the R9 285 is the only GCN 1.2 card currently confirmed) so that will be everything supported.

I personally am not a big fan of rebrands, however if they do make it better than the previous by enough and move it down the spaces then its not a big deal. I still want to wait until we have more of these on the market in everyone's hands for proof. I want to see a proper review!

 

[RejZoR]

But at the end of the day it's still an almost 2 years old tech and you'll be throwing some premium shit money at it. I might eat my second shoe, but damn it, this thing should be worth 200€ after all this time, not 450€...

 

[xfia]

Even if it isnt 1.3 the feature support level remains the same as 1.2 therefore doesnt matter.

However since the card utilizes an entirely new memory interface it is not a scaled up design but a new design. Therefore it could be 1.2 and AMD could change it 1.3 and it still wouldnt matter because Direct X 12 support would still be 12_0.

thanks but i will wait for microsoft and amd to explain all the advantages to having windows 10 with a dx12 native gpu.
ps.. they have been working with 20nm for ram for years now

 

[the54thvoid]

Thread is TL: DR.

Has anyone espoused the view that AMD could have used cut down versions of Fiji down the product stack?
As the Maxwell stack (small as it currently is) is all Maxwell architecture. Titan X, 980ti, 980, 970, 960 all GM cores. No rebrand from Nvidia, for a change

 

[RejZoR]

TL;DR, Don't buy R9-300 series...

 

[DarkOCean]

I have no problem with rebrands IF (big if) they are really bringing better price performance than the cards they are curently replacing. (wich I doubt).

 

[xfia]

Thread is TL: DR.

Has anyone espoused the view that AMD could have used cut down versions of Fiji down the product stack?
As the Maxwell stack (small as it currently is) is all Maxwell architecture. Titan X, 980ti, 980, 970, 960 all GM cores. No rebrand from Nvidia, for a change

there would have been no point to put hbm on a lesser gpu.. it has enough bandwidth for 8k and hbm2 will have the vram to back it up.

 

[qubit]

Thread is TL: DR.

Has anyone espoused the view that AMD could have used cut down versions of Fiji down the product stack?
As the Maxwell stack (small as it currently is) is all Maxwell architecture. Titan X, 980ti, 980, 970, 960 all GM cores. No rebrand from Nvidia, for a change

Yup, I did:

Sorry, but being strapped for cash is no excuse for deceiving people, which in my book borders on criminality. Would you find it acceptable to be robbed in the street by a homeless person because they were desperate? No, of course not. The same principle applies here.

So sure they can't invest the same way as NVIDIA and I didn't suggest it had to be as serious an improvement as they did, but they can still do smaller things like adding new features, perhaps. Anyway, their top card is about to be released with a new GPU design, so they've already done the hard work. Why not just make smaller versions of it for cards lower down the range instead of rebranding? That they certainly can do. Heck, it's not for me to work out what they have to do to be profitable, but it's certainly not to deceive people.

This is an expensive business to run, so if the new top management can't turn the company around, then perhaps they should look for a rich buyer eg Samsung perhaps, who will be able to inject a lot of cash into them to make better products.

 

[SIGSEGV]

TL;DR, Don't buy R9-300 series...

i won't. i'd rather waiting their 14nm arctic island with 8gb hbm2 in 2016
i will stay with my 680, even though i still waiting on how FIJI XT/Pro performs in the next few days.
as for AMD's R-300 rebrands / re-spin / whatever it called, i fully agree with crazyeyesreaper arguments.

 

[mroofie]

I have no problem with rebrands IF (big if) they are really bringing better price performance than the cards they are curently replacing. (wich I doubt).

Don't get me wrong i love the idea of rebrands but not when the product line should have something NEW

Infact i wish intel, nvidia and amd could rebrand the previous (latest arch)

 

[xfia]

Again with the driver BS, why would they put all the effort in to win 7 drivers when most people will be moving to Win10. Even people who don't know much about computer will be changing it. And i have noticed they keep updating the win10 drivers to make them as good as they can by the end of THIS month.

In the end i am glad that AMD are putting more effort in to win 10 drivers than some thing that's going be replaced by so many people.

nVidia did some win7 WHQL drivers and to me they were not all that good.

Cannot say the latest nvidia drivers were all that good tbh and should take a notice of what AMD is doing and make theirs as good as possible but more money than sense i guess.

And i have had no issue's with AMD drivers at all, sure CF updates are needed but i am sure time spent on W10 drivers are much more important.

what you said reminds me a rather misinformed article here at tpu having to do with amd not putting out new whql drivers since omega. maybe nvidia needed to hurry up because of the segmented 970 or for they have to optimize games that use gameworks that most of the code is hidden making it harder.. who knows but the truth is if a driver is doing its job and doesnt need a rush for a new version that is a good thing. something amd included to say in the videos for omega.