Debating multi gpu? Just do it!

[Vayra86]

Personally I think the power / heat argument is mute, there's too many variables that could mean they're better or worse off in single or multi, so how's about we just list the games that work, those that don't....

This. Here.

You buy a gaming PC to play games. You go for a very slight (10%-15% at the most) cost advantage on a 600 dollar GPU investment total. Half of that investment drops dead in the very thing it is supposed to do:

play games.

The point is that when one title doesn't work, and then another, every time you are paying back on that 10% you earned at the start. And then, you want to sell your GPU's but they're mid ranged and about two years old, so hey, 100-150 bucks maybe for the set? Instead you could also sell off a 980ti for about 300+... OR decide it's time to buy a second one, second hand, for a similar amount and truly get serious about horsepower - in which time has passed, and support for that card has been finalized too, all optimisations implemented and no early adopter nonsense.

You see the point?

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Most benchmarks would argue that fact:



Read more: http://wccftech.com/multi-gpu-nvidia-sli-amd-crossfire-performance-value-comparison/#ixzz46JVko9Dp

And on a side note: SLI works SOMETIMES and Crossfire works SOMETIMES to imply that one works more than the other is fallible at best. And when it does work, most of the time it is a draw. I neglect to understand why you would want this to somehow turn into an AMD vs Nvidia thread...There are plenty of those around already.

LOL, only 9 games, and a syn bench, and and article by WCCF? That's not exactly enough to counter all the mass amount of users that say otherwise. I mean seriously, everyone knows benches can be skewed.

And here's another thing, pretty much EVERY Crossfire user I've seen trying to refute that SLI works better, uses mostly non current games as examples.

If those 4 videos I showed you of current titles working in SLI that Crossfire can't yet handle doesn't mean anything to you, I have nothing further to say to you, because you're in denial.

 

[trog100]

i am still trying to figure out why i aint getting any of these sli problems that some suggest are the norm..

or maybe more to the point why some folks are getting problems and i aint.. there has to be some rational explanation.. least i think there has..

trog

 

[JATownes]

LOL, only 9 games, and a syn bench, and and article by WCCF? That's not exactly enough to counter all the mass amount of users that say otherwise. I mean seriously, everyone knows benches can be skewed.

And here's another thing, pretty much EVERY Crossfire user I've seen trying to refute that SLI works better, uses mostly non current games as examples.

If those 4 videos I showed you of current titles working in SLI that Crossfire can't yet handle doesn't mean anything to you, I have nothing further to say to you, because you're in denial.

Wasn't trying to be rude (while obviously you are), was simply posting a review stating that SLI and Crossfire scaling and performance is debatable at best. For clarity, all of the 4 games you posted are Nvidia sponsored games and ALL of them had substantial SLI problems at launch. But again, I will not turn this thread into an AMD vs Nvidia repeat that some people can't seem to get over.

Believe me when I say that my rig, with or without Crossfire will slice through all of the games you mentioned (even at 3440x1440). I was simply trying to show that BOTH Crossfire and SLI have issues and should be avoided unless the multi-gpu is simply being used for fun and isn't being relied upon for solid and stable framerates. I apologize I offended you in such a way, and hope that one day you will have an SLI or Crossfire system and be able to speak from personal experience as most of us here are trying to do to help give guidance. Repeating what has been read and heard isn't the voice of experience, over a decade of using multi-gpu systems is.

JAT

 

[Frick]

i am still trying to figure out why i aint getting any of these sli problems that some suggest are the norm..

or maybe more to the point why some folks are getting problems and i aint.. there has to be some rational explanation.. least i think there has..

trog

Do you buy the AAA games on launch?

 

[Ascalaphus]

SLI 980TIs here. 4k or 2k no issues. Of course you run into that occasional driver issue/no SLI support but then you can just disable one card and you are good to go. Better to have the extra horsepower and not need it, rather than to need it and not have it I say.

 

[Vayra86]

Wasn't trying to be rude (while obviously you are), was simply posting a review stating that SLI and Crossfire scaling and performance is debatable at best. For clarity, all of the 4 games you posted are Nvidia sponsored games and ALL of them had substantial SLI problems at launch. But again, I will not turn this thread into an AMD vs Nvidia repeat that some people can't seem to get over.

Believe me when I say that my rig, with or without Crossfire will slice through all of the games you mentioned (even at 3440x1440). I was simply trying to show that BOTH Crossfire and SLI have issues and should be avoided unless the multi-gpu is simply being used for fun and isn't being relied upon for solid and stable framerates. I apologize I offended you in such a way, and hope that one day you will have an SLI or Crossfire system and be able to speak from personal experience as most of us here are trying to do to help give guidance. Repeating what has been read and heard isn't the voice of experience, over a decade of using multi-gpu systems is.

JAT

Note: every single game has substantial problems at launch, be they Crossfire, SLI, driver support as a whole, day zero game bugs, day one patches that break driver bits, need I go on? The fact remains that when there is an official SLI profile for a game, it also works and it scales decently. With Crossfire, the problems tend to return from time to time. Crossfire support has improved over the recent past, but still needs work. SLI has an overall much bigger library of bits and fixes to it, and supports a longer list of games. We can debate this, but it is a fact that is supported by a far greater investment in support from Nvidia than what AMD puts into it.

That doesn't change a thing however about the fact that even SLI does not work in every game or that certain games may *never* see support for it even though there are lots of people asking for it. Thát is the bottom line of the single/dual GPU debate for me - if you ever come across that one game that will never get support, you're stuck with that single, mid ranged GPU.

BTW that WCCF article actually focuses entirely on the Crossfire scaling differences of the Fury X versus the rest, not on the amounts of games that do or don't have support. Yet it fails to connect the dots. Fury X is the only GPU today with HBM and we all know Crossfire/SLI needs to mirror the VRAM... gosh I wonder what's happening here.

 

[dj-electric]

Running and experimenting with multi GPU setups for almost a decade now. Whatever Dave said in the first page - its all true.

 

[trog100]

SLI 980TIs here. 4k or 2k no issues. Of course you run into that occasional driver issue/no SLI support but then you can just disable one card and you are good to go. Better to have the extra horsepower and not need it, rather than to need it and not have it I say.

i think that has to be the secret.. not be totally dependant on CF or SLI support.. those that are will have problems because it aint always there as maybe it should be..

i see adding an extra card as being a no brainer cost effective upgrade path.. but the single card performance has to be there to start with..

i was happy with my pair of 970 cards playing games at 1080 on a 144 hrz monitor.. performance to spare.. maybe i would not be so happy at 1440 or 4 K..

i am happy with my pair of 980 TI cards at 1440 on a 144 hrz monitor.. performance to spare.. i dont play games at 4K..

starting off with a good performance single card and then somewhere down the line adding another one as and when required works well.. using a pair of poor performance cards that need to be at their best all the time dosnt work so well.. end of story..

trog

ps.. at 4K i would have issues.. i would be struggling to maintain frame rates at the level i am used to.. my performance to spare factor would not be there.. f-ck 4K.. he he

 

[Frag_Maniac]

...all of the 4 games you posted are Nvidia sponsored games and ALL of them had substantial SLI problems at launch...

Well it's not long after launch for some of them, and SLI is now working, whereas Crossfire isn't. This isn't an argument of whom sponsors more games though, it's about whom supports them better with multi GPU drivers. The fact that Nvidia wins on both, is secondary.

Endorsement usually means at best 2-3 weeks lead time on driver tweaking, compared to what often ends up being MONTHS on proper multi GPU support. So whom gets endorsement is really insignificant compared to how well the driver team time is spent post release, and there Nvidia wins most of the time.

For that matter, my current GPU, a 7970 was bought back when AMD was sponsoring a lot of good games, and that was a big part of their success in hardware sales. They were also cranking out a lot of good drivers, despite ho hum Crossfire support. So your sponsorship angle isn't really a valid excuse for AMD, because they squander that time recklessly.

More current sponsorship is yet another reason SLI is more likely to, and DOES more often work much sooner than Crossfire, though, because unlike AMD, Nvidia make good use of their time with devs. And my saying you're being in denial of things like that is not "rude", it's just an observation, which you just further validated.

Done talking to you about this. I don't like having to repeatedly point out the obvious, esp when called "rude" for it. As Vayra verified, Nvidia put FAR more into SLI than AMD do Crossfire, and everyone KNOWS they can more easily afford to.

AMD are FAR behind Nvidia mainly because they make a lot of stupid business decisions. When it comes to mulit GPU though, it's also because they've been at it longer than AMD, and it obviously shows, to anyone that can see the plain facts.

 

[JATownes]

Again, I will not turn this into an AMD vs NV thread, but would love to continue this through PM, because we have seen repeatedly that sponsorship by Nvidia can cause substantial problems with the competitor's architecture by design.

JAT

 

[EarthDog]

Again, I will not turn this into an AMD vs NV thread, but would love to continue this through PM, because we have seen repeatedly that sponsorship by Nvidia can cause substantial problems with the competitor's architecture by design.

JAT

And that doesn't happen with amd????

 

[JATownes]

And that doesn't happen with amd????

That happens with both. My point here is that BOTH companies do these things, just like he stated that when AMD was sponsoring games Crossfire was working perfectly well at launch. I concur AMD has made bad decisions, and does not have remotely the R&D budget that NV has.

This has spun out of control. The point of the matter was that the OP asked about multi-gpu and was it worth it...that question was being answered when all of the sudden it has to turn into AMD vs NV...BOTH have substantial issues and BOTH aren't worth it.

I'm just sick of AMD vs NV threads and neglect to understand why someone in EVERY thread has to turn it into one. Especially when AMD and NV users were both reciting the problems with both, when all of the sudden a quote such as "Those in the know go Nvidia for multi GPU setups." is thrown in. Necessary, definitely not, especially from someone not even running a multi-GPU setup, just reciting information that was read or heard. I'm pretty sure OP was asking for first hand experience, which he was getting in droves.

JAT

 

[EarthDog]

I think you made more out of than needed to be...

Oh well.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I ran SLI for awhile. Raw performance was great, the issues associated with it weren't. Even when games worked fine there were ever present annoyances. I doubt I'm ever going back. I have a friend who has been on SLI for a few generations now and he can't wait to drop it for a single card. Both of us have as a result been annoyed by Nvidia's insistence on releasing top tier cards later. With fast and high res displays we need that single card performance now.

That's what I normally see with complaints on multi card setups; people who have done it and decided "never again." Some people have a higher tolerance for bullshit, some play a fortunate selection of games that work perfectly, some have no choice because of their display, but the issues I've seen on these setups would prevent me from recommending it to most people.

 

[kronic1]

i have to admit the last time i used crossfire was with amd iv never tried sli, iv have had crossfire 6970s,7970s,280xs,290s,290xs i did notice a huge diff with the 290s not needing the crossfire strap, had almost zero issues in games as far as stutter or crossfire not working ,not including ark survival online or spin tires lol, since the 290s anyway,
the 6970s and 7970s and 280xs suffered from micro stutter and only worked proper in 40% of games give or take, but used shitloads more power,and generated lots more heat nun the less, iv since gone from 2x290xs in crossfire to 1 single 980ti and haven't looked back , no issues less heat, can actually afford to game for more than a few hours at a time without the wall plug or case melting lol, so i do think crossfire has got alot better since the 290s but its still a finicky beast, and with how lazy game developers are these days its just less hassle to run a single card hands down

 

[Frag_Maniac]

...just like he stated that when AMD was sponsoring games Crossfire was working perfectly well at launch.

I did SO not say that, reread my post. I said they had a lot of good drivers in general at that time, DESPITE Crossfire in general not working so well. I also said AMD do a MUCH worse job at making use of their time with devs when they sponsor games, which I tend to think is probably why so many devs ask Nvidia instead now. It's clearly not just due to the success of Maxwell.

I see no point of discussing it via PM, if you can't even follow or accurately quote what's being said here.

And for the record I am not pro or con AMD or Nvidia, and am currently on a 7970. I'm also waiting a LONG time before my core upgrade to see what Zen will be like. If anything my anger at AMD is that they've blown many chances to better compete in the industry, and we seriously NEED that completion back.

Just don't take what you hear so defensively for yourself for being a Crossfire user, or for AMD. It's not like we all WANT them to fail, hell no.

 

[trog100]

AMD vs Nvidia.. single graphics cards vs SLI or CF..

this thread is full of dogmatically entrenched bullshit from both sides on both issues.. the sides have been chosen and nether side is open to genuine discussion.. the entire thread has been pointless from beginning to end.. he he


trog

 

[JATownes]

And here's another thing, pretty much EVERY Crossfire user I've seen trying to refute that SLI works better, uses mostly non current games as examples.

For that matter, my current GPU, a 7970 was bought back when AMD was sponsoring a lot of good games, and that was a big part of their success in hardware sales. They were also cranking out a lot of good drivers, despite ho hum Crossfire support. So your sponsorship angle isn't really a valid excuse for AMD, because they squander that time recklessly.

I apologize, I misinterpreted what was said, though the implication is definitely there. Hence the "pretty much EVERY Crossfire user I've seen trying to refute that SLI works better, uses mostly non current games as examples" because at the time of those games, AMD was truly more efficient than Crossfire, especially in AMD sponsored games. Also, I am hard pressed to think of an AMD sponsored game that did not support Crossfire at launch... but I digress nonetheless.

And I might be misinformed, but from what I understand developers rarely approach AMD or NV for sponsorship...AMD or NV approach developers, usually with providing substantial revenue in exchange for advertising and the request or demand to put in proprietary tech to make the game run better on their hardware, especially when the games are launching at the beginning of a product cycle. Hence why sponsorship usually leads to "optimization" of one over the other. I personally loathe sponsorship in games and all forms of proprietary tech when an open source option is available, but that is just me.

No offense was taken, and I personally enjoy a debate such as this! Practicing real estate law has instilled a vigorous debate mentality in me.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I apologize, I misinterpreted what was said

No need for an apology, I was just clarifying.

This however...

AMD was truly more efficient than Crossfire...

...is evidence the conversation has drawn on too long I think.

 

[cadaveca]

the conversation has drawn on too long I think.

Pretty much. There is no denying that multi-GPU can present problems that running a single VGA does not. If you don't mind dealing with the problems, then SLI/Crossfire is OK, but otherwise, if you like to play games in the most hassle-free way, then single GPU is the master of all.

I personally never said one brand was better than the other, as both are prone to issues at times.