Looks like AMD finally made a profit!

[AsRock]

I agree it was inevitable...but why worry? I think the next couple of rounds of consoles are going to be great for PC gaming. With KB/mouse support, game developers will be coding for it from the beginning and it will hopefully eliminate ports with buggy control schemes. I also believe getting away from the "walled garden" approach in relation to console hardware is a great idea, and hopefully will lead to less "exclusive" titles.

I'm actually excited for the changes, as I would love for us to be approaching an era of true multi-platform gaming, and that hopefully will turn in to profits for AMD. We all need AMD to keep pressure on NV and Intel to continue pushing the boundaries.

Not interested in consoles, they are limited and require logging in to there servers.

JAT

I remember reading some years ago, going some 20 years now were Compaq make a request for making a console but it was to much like the PC so it was denied, then some years later MS actually got permission which became the XBOX.

I believe, since I believe at my core that MS hates PC gaming, that is is part of a broader, multi-year push by MS to marginalize PC gaming and make it disappear eventually. Too many hints and traces of evidence over the last 15 years to think otherwise.

And MS support with gaming as been appalling at best, With there gfw which left games requiring fixes now this new shop crap. MS want to kill PC gaming as i see it and are not our friends for those who want it.

As for PC gaming on linux well that's still taking it's time, if only gaming company's would just support Vulkan, any thing that gets us away from MS BS as they know they will get there way sooner or later i just hope by that time will can tell them go fuck them self's and linux is our escape from the BS but still over 20 years and it's still not there. I hope Steam can be one of many to make this happen.

 

[Bill_Bright]

First, perhaps this Xbox mouse and keyboard OT tangent should be split into separate thread to be fair to the OP.

Second, why is having more options for user input a problem? I see it as a very good thing. It opens up greater flexibility to the Xbox. The old controller is not going away. Microsoft is giving users more options. That is good. It is up to the game developers to take advantage of the greater options - where the responsibility should be.

 

[JATownes]

I believe, since I believe at my core that MS hates PC gaming, that is is part of a broader, multi-year push by MS to marginalize PC gaming and make it disappear eventually. Too many hints and traces of evidence over the last 15 years to think otherwise.

I think there is too big of a world-wide industry related to PC gaming for it to ever disappear completely.

However, if there was a shift to something like customizable consoles, (to support that industry), it would basically be a PC running on a 3rd party OS, then I could see PC gaming disappearing, then it would be just like PC gaming, just without Windows (which would be awesome), but perhaps using proprietary hardware, (which would suck).

Never looked at it from that perspective. Thanks for making me think.

 

[HD64G]

Wow, 6 TFLOPS on Project Scorpio means in between 980 Ti and Titan X performance. It also means if they sell enough of them, we may see an end to games being dumbed down on PC to look like the lesser capable consoles.

I'm skeptical they can sell enough of them to make that happen, but MS and Sony usually take a loss initially just to capture as large a segment of the gaming audience as they can. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Word is Sony are only putting 4.2 TFLOPS into PS Neo, but that's still enough to level out the platforms enough to remove the risk of graphics sabotage on PC titles for parity. Hell, my current GPU (7970), is only capable of 3.8 TFLOPS.

Most possible GPU for PS4 Neo is the cut Polaris 10 being in RX470 imho. On the other side, Scorpio might have a cut version of Vega 10.

 

[Bill_Bright]

think there is too big of a world-wide industry related to PC gaming for it to ever disappear completely.

Well, if people keep walking off cliffs, getting stuck in trees, or driving into police cars while playing Pokémon Go, maybe the gaming industry will just go away completely.

 

[JATownes]

Well, if people keep walking off cliffs, getting stuck in trees, or driving into police cars while playing Pokémon Go, maybe the gaming industry will just go away completely.

Hahaha! I'd have given you some gold for this if this was Reddit. My family is playing incessantly, especially my wife and 12 yo daughter. I'm not a big fan...

 

[rtwjunkie]

I think there is too big of a world-wide industry related to PC gaming for it to ever disappear completely.

However, if there was a shift to something like customizable consoles, (to support that industry), it would basically be a PC running on a 3rd party OS, then I could see PC gaming disappearing, then it would be just like PC gaming, just without Windows (which would be awesome), but perhaps using proprietary hardware, (which would suck).

Never looked at it from that perspective. Thanks for making me think.

I actually can see your perspective...maybe I won't doubt them so much.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Not sure what reddit has do with it. These were all real events.

 

[rtwjunkie]

These were all real events.

LOL, Darwinism/thinning of the herd in full effect.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Had to happen sooner or later, which kinda worries me as that was one of the main reasons a PC and console were different.

More powerful consoles with KB/M support mainly means less chance of shoddy control porting and platform parity sabotage on PC. It's a win win really. The only ones going to be griping about it is the kids that can't afford them, who's parents won't buy them due to price. I think there's plenty of grown up gamers now that will buy them though. Lots of console gamers are married with kids now, and have PCs as well. Thus it makes sense for MS to make PC and Xbox more cross compatible.

 

[AsRock]

Yeah for a while, but we all should know by now that MS supports console over PC. I guess we will see sooner or later right .

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Yeah for a while, but we all should know by now that MS supports console over PC.

Traditionally they have, but consoles that easily surpass entry level gamning PCs in graphics power, and support KB/M, are two keys things they HAVEN'T done, which are breaking that tradition. Plus they are trying to bridge the gap between console and PC, with both supporting Windows.

Any one of those things is a big change in mindset, but all 3 combined tends to look like they are truly devoted to blurring the line between console and PC. Now some might see that and worry about more parity on the development end, but if anything it should be the opposite, because there won't be any reason to hold back PC if consoles can perform just as well or even better than the average PC.

In fact, I must say I'd be damned tempted to buy a Project Scorpio if it supports KB/M, and the price is right. No telling what kind of exclusives it will get. Just about anything is possible. The only thing I'd be worried about other than system price is modding, and length of platform cycle. Modding is finally starting to appear on consoles, but it would be damn nice if they''d at least make the main chip modular and upgrade-able. Otherwise they start to look weak after a few years.

 

[Bill_Bright]

LOL, Darwinism/thinning of the herd in full effect.

LOL yeah but not good when they take innocent bystanders out with them.

 

[yogurt_21]

I believe, since I believe at my core that MS hates PC gaming, that is is part of a broader, multi-year push by MS to marginalize PC gaming and make it disappear eventually. Too many hints and traces of evidence over the last 15 years to think otherwise.

might as well say muscle cars are doomed if the big 3 stop supporting them. Doubt it. Consoles can mimic pc's all they want. All that does is make ports easier for devs. But pc gaming will always be around so long as there are "MUST HAVE MORE POWER" people. And tbh that's as embedded into human dna as fight or flight. So no MS can do what they wish, havign KB/M keymapping before they even port will make porting easier than ever.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I agree. No way MS hates PC gaming. In fact, MS very well understands PC gaming is a driving force in PC sales - a significant fact considering there is an overall decline in PC sales in recent years.

I have seen no hints or trace evidence MS is trying to marginalize or make PC gaming disappear. Got examples? I mean it just does not make any sense MS would want to squash a major source of revenue. It is not like they have to spend more resources building gaming support into Windows.

Sure, MS wants Xbox to thrive, but no way do they want all their eggs in one basket. They want Windows Phones, tablets, notebooks and PCs to all thrive.

I note too PC gaming is a major factor in the self-built industries too. Not only does that drive advances in motherboard, CPU, GPU, etc. technologies (including Intel vs AMD), but Microsoft makes more profit on Windows and Office licenses selling to individual consumers (even with OEM prices) than they do to the big computer makers who get massive volume license discounts.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I have seen no hints or trace evidence MS is trying to marginalize or make PC gaming disappear. Got examples?

Bill, I'm not trying to insult you, but you must have been in witness protection for the last 10 years. Here, read this thread started by RCoon in 2014. He made it funny, but it's so true.

And the comedy act has only continued the last year and a half with the advent of W10 and the Windows Store games and MS' inability to effectively handle or perhaps decision to muck that all up. You can find those news articles the last year hear on TPU.

He continues to make good examples and points throughout the thread, though without the comedic presentation of the OP.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ts-love-for-pc-by-doing-nothing-at-e3.202172/

MS is adept at TALKING about their commitment to PC gaming, nothing more.

 

[Bill_Bright]

No, actually, we been building a bunch of Windows based gaming computers for the last 10 years!

Sorry, but ineptitude is not an indication of intent to kill off PC gaming.

 

[rtwjunkie]

No, actually, we been building a bunch of Windows based gaming computers for the last 10 years!

Sorry, but ineptitude is not an indication of intent to kill off PC gaming.

But repeated talk, followed by either doing nothing or working against gamers is. They are the joke of jokes among PC gamers for this reason. Talk to gamers, there's more than enough of them here.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Talk to gamers, there's more than enough of them here.

I have a custom PC shop. Much of our business is with gamers.

Microsoft has a long history of PR and marketing blunders that backfired in their faces. I am just saying that does not show they intend to kill PC gaming. They just want to totally control it.

In fact, now that W10 is here, Microsoft wants to monopolise games development on PC.

Do NOT assume the left hand at Microsoft knows what the right hand, head, feet, mouth or heart are doing!

 

[rtwjunkie]

Do NOT assume the left hand at Microsoft knows what the right hand, head, feet, mouth or heart are doing!

LOL, True enough! You made me laugh.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I don't supposed comments like that makes me many friends at Microsoft. I told my MS MVP lead long ago that I will defend MS with vigor when wrongly accused (as they often are - especially over security issues) but will bash them with just as much vigor when due - and that is often too. I was recently honored and humbled by being awarded Microsoft MVP for the 10th year in a row so I guess there is not much they can say if I stick with the truth.

The fact is, they have some of the best developers in the world putting out some of the best software ever. It is too bad the developers get a bad rap (guilty by association) due to decisions made by marketing weenies and bean counters. But I suppose that is typical of just about any big company.

 

[Artas1984]

Good for AMD, now succeed with ZEN.

They have to come BIG TIME. AMD is still swimming in Sandy Bridge waters performance wise...

 

[rtwjunkie]

They have to come BIG TIME. AMD is still swimming in Sandy Bridge waters performance wise...

Back on topic, I really hope they can pull off a good one, so that the whole company is not being propped up by the GPU's. Really, they don't have to beat Intel. Just come up with something in the Haswell, even Ivy level, but running cool and efficiently, and beating Intel pricewise, and they have a winner. CPU's have not in reality advanced all that much since Sandy Bridge, so anything equivalent to that whole range is fine.

IMO, of course.