• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Samsung to Optical-Shrink NVIDIA "Pascal" to 14 nm

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
46,277 (7.69/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
It looks like NVIDIA won't skip the 14 nm process en route sub-10 nm nodes, despite meeting its energy-efficiency targets with the 16 nm FinFET node, after all. The company has reportedly concluded talks with Samsung Electronics, to optically-shrink its current GeForce "Pascal" architecture down to the newer 14 nanometer FinFET node, by Samsung. It's unclear as to whether specific upcoming (unreleased) Pascal GPUs will get 14 nm treatment, or if this is a series-wide die-shrink of the kind NVIDIA did between the 65 nm and 55 nm nodes. The Samsung-made 14 nm "Pascal" GPUs should enter production before year-end.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
622 (0.12/day)
Location
City 217
Processor AMD Phenom II X4 925
Motherboard Asus M4A78LT-M
Cooling Ice Hammer IH-4***
Memory 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair
Video Card(s) Asus HD7870 2GB
Storage 500GB SATAII Samsung | 500GB SATAII Seagate
Display(s) 23" LG 23EA63V-P
Case Thermaltake V3 Black Edition
Audio Device(s) VIA VT1708S
Power Supply Corsair TX650W
Software Windows 10 x64
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
1,589 (0.36/day)
Location
Northamptonshire, UK
System Name Main / HTPC
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X / Ryzen 7 2700
Motherboard Strix B550i / B450i Aorus Pro
Cooling Lian-Li Galahad 360 / Wraith Spire
Memory Corsair LPX 2x16 3600MHz / HyperX Predator 2x8GB 3200MHz
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 FE / ARC A380
Storage WD Black SN770 1TB / Sabrent Rocket 256GB
Display(s) Acer Z301c / 39" Panasonic HDTV
Case Corsair 2000D / Cougar QBX
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V379 / Realtek ALC1220
Power Supply Corsair SF600 / BeQuiet SFX Power 2 450W
Mouse Logitech G900
Keyboard Drop Sense75 with WQ Studio Morandi's
VR HMD Rift S
Software Win 11 Pro 64Bit
GTX 1080+ anyone? :laugh:

throwback to 9800 GTX and 9800GTX+
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.39/day)
Shrinking the GTX 1080 to 250 sq.mm GTX 1160 more likely. GTX 1060 can't be shrink-ed without dropping the 192 bit. The 1170/1180 could be the shrink of pascal titan on 256 bit.
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
7,062 (1.04/day)
Location
Asked my ISP.... 0.0
System Name Lynni PS \ Lenowo TwinkPad T480
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700 Raphael \ i7-8550U Kaby Lake-R
Motherboard ASRock B650M PG Riptide Bios v. 2.02 AMD AGESA 1.1.0.0 \ Lenowo 20L60036MX Bios 1.47
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax.Black (Only middle fan) \ Lenowo WN-2
Memory G.Skill Flare X5 2x16GB DDR5 6000MHZ CL36-36-36-96 AMD EXPO \ Willk Elektronik 2x16GB 2666MHZ CL17
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce RTX™ 4070 Dual OC GPU: 2325-2355 MEM: 1462| Nvidia GeForce MX™ 150 2GB GDDR5 Micron
Storage Gigabyte M30 1TB|Sabrent Rocket 2TB| HDD: 10TB|1TB \ SKHynix 256GB 2242 3x2
Display(s) LG UltraGear 27GP850-B 1440p@165Hz | LG 48CX OLED 4K HDR | AUO 14" 1440p IPS
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 Tempered Glass White/Black | Lenowo T480 chassis
Audio Device(s) Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless
Power Supply Be Quiet! Pure Power 12 M 750W Goldie | 65W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeedy Wireless | Lenowo TouchPad & Logitech G305
Keyboard Akko 3108 DS Horizon V2 Cream Yellow | T480 UK Lumi
Software Win11 Pro 23H2 UK
Benchmark Scores 3DMARK: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89434432? GPU-Z: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details/v3zbr
Haven't we seen this kinda before with Samsung doing some work then TSMC does it better like for Apple's iphone the TSMC made chip was faster then Samsung? o_O
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
1,793 (0.49/day)
Does not make much sense, 14nm lpp and 16nm FF+ are quite the same size. There's not much die size savings on that shrink. Maybe they will make pascal tegras on samsungs 14nm LPP, but I don't see them moving their whole gpu line from TSMC. Maybe they try something like gp107 or gp108 on samsungs manufacturing nodes...
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,380 (1.08/day)
This is great news. I love reading something like this.
Samsung's phenomenal line, i thought were preserved for AMD only.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
8,115 (2.29/day)
Location
SE Michigan
System Name Dumbass
Processor AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s) GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s) 1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s) onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K100
Software windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2
sounds more like a trial&error run
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
1,703 (0.27/day)
Location
Oshkosh, WI
System Name ChoreBoy
Processor 8700k Delided
Motherboard Gigabyte Z390 Master
Cooling 420mm Custom Loop
Memory CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 2x8GB @ 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 SC
Storage 1TB SX8200, 250GB 850 EVO, 250GB Barracuda
Display(s) Pixio PX329 and Dell E228WFP
Case Fractal R6
Audio Device(s) On-Board
Power Supply 1000w Corsair
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores A million on everything....
OMFG SATURDAY NEWS! YES!!

This is like Saturday morning cartoons for us!

I love that picture too.... That's what it looks like inside the Terminator's brain!
 

64K

Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
6,104 (1.66/day)
Processor i7 7700k
Motherboard MSI Z270 SLI Plus
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB and WD Black 4TB
Display(s) Dell 27 inch 1440p 144 Hz
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 850 W Gold
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10
Makes me wonder if TSMC is having yield problems on 16nm like they did when they went from 40nm to 28nm. That could in part explain the shortages but I think most of the shortage of 1070 and 1080 is due to their extremely good performance and a lot of people want them. Maybe Nvidia is finally fed up with TSMC.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
531 (0.11/day)
Location
Inside a mini ITX
System Name ITX Desktop
Processor Core i7 9700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro WiFi Z390
Cooling Arctic esports 34 duo.
Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3000MHz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 Gaming OC White PRO
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus | Intel SSD 660p
Case NZXT H200
Power Supply Corsair CX Series 750 Watt
Most probably for GP100. It makes sense to reduce the power consumption as large quantities of GP100 is expected to be used with upcoming Power 9 servers.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
716 (0.14/day)
Location
Finland
System Name RGB-PC v2.0
Processor AMD Ryzen 7950X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair X670E Extreme
Cooling Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT
Memory 4x16GB DDR5-5200 CL36 G.SKILL Trident Z5 NEO RGB
Video Card(s) Asus Strix RTX 2080 Ti
Storage 2x2TB Samsung 980 PRO
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV273K 27" 4K 120Hz (G-SYNC compatible)
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragon Red + Sennheiser HD 650
Power Supply Asus Thor II 1000W + Cablemod ModMesh Pro sleeved cables
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB with low profile red cherrys
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Probably mobile Tegra chips based on Pascal architecture. Why would you try making high power chips on low power Samsung/GloFo 14nm finfet process like AMD did.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
716 (0.14/day)
Location
Finland
System Name RGB-PC v2.0
Processor AMD Ryzen 7950X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair X670E Extreme
Cooling Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT
Memory 4x16GB DDR5-5200 CL36 G.SKILL Trident Z5 NEO RGB
Video Card(s) Asus Strix RTX 2080 Ti
Storage 2x2TB Samsung 980 PRO
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV273K 27" 4K 120Hz (G-SYNC compatible)
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragon Red + Sennheiser HD 650
Power Supply Asus Thor II 1000W + Cablemod ModMesh Pro sleeved cables
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB with low profile red cherrys
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,866 (3.00/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Now that die shrinks are getting ever harder, I'm not surprised that they are taking this step.

If I remember correctly, at around 3-7nm you reach the size of single atoms, so we're close to the limit now.
 

64K

Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
6,104 (1.66/day)
Processor i7 7700k
Motherboard MSI Z270 SLI Plus
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB and WD Black 4TB
Display(s) Dell 27 inch 1440p 144 Hz
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 850 W Gold
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10
Now that die shrinks are getting ever harder, I'm not surprised that they are taking this step.

If I remember correctly, at around 3-7nm you reach the size of single atoms, so we're close to the limit now.

No, atoms are much smaller that that.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/atomsiz.html

But the lower process nodes are introducing more difficulties.

Probably new materials other than silicon will help.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...d-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,883 (0.81/day)
Probably outcome of Samsung bringing nvidia to knees. Also it seems like when it comes to fab Samsung is now ruling the roost.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
11,655 (1.73/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs and over 10TB spinning
Display(s) 56" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
Seems like an TSMC supply issue, it will be interesting to see what happens to the power consumption.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
479 (0.14/day)
System Name Diablo | Baal | Mephisto | Andariel
Processor i5-3570K@4.4GHz | 2x Xeon X5675 | i7-4710MQ | i7-2640M
Motherboard Asus Sabertooth Z77 | HP DL380 G6 | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Cooling Swiftech H220-X | Chassis cooled (6 fans + HS) | dual-fanned heatpipes | small-fanned heatpipe
Memory 32GiB DDR3-1600 CL9 | 96GiB DDR3-1333 ECC RDIMM | 32GiB DDR3L-1866 CL11 | 8GiB DDR3L-1600 CL11
Video Card(s) Dual GTX 670 in SLI | Embedded ATi ES1000 | Quadro K2100M | Intel HD 3000
Storage many, many SSDs and HDDs....
Display(s) 1 Dell U3011 + 2x Dell U2410 | HP iLO2 KVMoIP | 3200x1800 Sharp IGZO | 1366x768 IPS with Wacom pen
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D | HP DL380 G6 Chassis | Dell Precision M4800 | Lenovo Thinkpad X220 Tablet
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD | None | On-board | On-board
Power Supply Corsair AX850 | Dual 750W Redundant PSU (Delta) | Dell 330W+240W (Flextronics) | Lenovo 65W (Delta)
Mouse Logitech G502, Logitech G700s, Logitech G500, Dell optical mouse (emergency backup)
Keyboard 1985 IBM Model F 122-key, Ducky YOTT MX Black, Dell AT101W, 1994 IBM Model M, various integrated
Software FAAAR too much to list
Shrinking the GTX 1080 to 250 sq.mm GTX 1160 more likely. GTX 1060 can't be shrink-ed without dropping the 192 bit. The 1170/1180 could be the shrink of pascal titan on 256 bit.

While it does look that way, I find it extremely unlikely they'll go under 280mm². Sure, the name says 14nm, but a lot of the die isn't at 14nm (some smaller, like a fin on 22nm Intel FinFET being a mere 8nm wide, or a channel length of 28nm, on the very same node). You can read more about how node sizes have become essentially marketing here http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-status-of-moores-law-its-complicated

Haven't we seen this kinda before with Samsung doing some work then TSMC does it better like for Apple's iphone the TSMC made chip was faster then Samsung? o_O

Probably outcome of Samsung bringing nvidia to knees. Also it seems like when it comes to fab Samsung is now ruling the roost.

Err.. wat? nV and Samsung don't compete against each other in any market besides SoCs (Tegra vs Exynos). Ans for best fab, that would arguably be Intel who are on their second generation of FinFETs, with extra tweaks beyond what was done with the first 14nm chips.

Seems like an TSMC supply issue, it will be interesting to see what happens to the power consumption.

That was my first thought as well.

Probably mobile Tegra chips based on Pascal architecture. Why would you try making high power chips on low power Samsung/GloFo 14nm finfet process like AMD did.

Possible, but you can do some very interesting custom tweaks to your chips to let them clock really high even on the same node (mostly because at this point the limiter on clock speeds is either chip layout (literally where the transistors are and how they're wired), or much more commonly these days, power), or lower power on the same node. Just compare Tonga vs Tahiti (R9-285 vs R9-280 in particular), or Fermi GF100 vs GF110 (GTX 480 vs GTX 570 in particular), both of which both lowered power (measurably so in both cases.. according to AnandTech at least) and increased performance through higher clockspeeds and/or fewer disabled clusters on higher-power SKUs.
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,680 (4.29/day)
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory 4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage 2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard Keychron K8
Software W10P
Shrinking the GTX 1080 to 250 sq.mm GTX 1160 more likely. GTX 1060 can't be shrink-ed without dropping the 192 bit. The 1170/1180 could be the shrink of pascal titan on 256 bit.

What are you talking about? They can shrink the die and keep the bus size.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,648 (0.56/day)
Location
Greece
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W
Motherboard MSI B550 Tomahawk
Cooling ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA
Memory 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB
Storage Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB
Display(s) AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz
Case SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK
Audio Device(s) Realtek 7.1 onboard
Power Supply Seasonic Core GC 500W
Mouse Sharkoon SHARK Force Black
Keyboard Trust GXT280
Software Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux
Does not make much sense, 14nm lpp and 16nm FF+ are quite the same size. There's not much die size savings on that shrink. Maybe they will make pascal tegras on samsungs 14nm LPP, but I don't see them moving their whole gpu line from TSMC. Maybe they try something like gp107 or gp108 on samsungs manufacturing nodes...
Exactly what I think this move is to mean. Cost/chip might be another factor for nVidia desicion. Capacity a 3rd one. Who knows? All will be clear once we learn the products of the collaboration.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
1,181 (0.18/day)
Processor 7900
Motherboard Rampage Apex
Cooling H115i
Memory 64GB TridentZ 3200 14-14-14-34-1T
Video Card(s) Fury X
Case Corsair 740
Audio Device(s) 8ch LPCM via HDMI to Yamaha Z7 Receiver
Power Supply Corsair AX860
Mouse G903
Keyboard G810
Software 8.1 x64
Based on that picture it looks like a mobile chip.
 
Top