Volt Modified Pascal BIOS - Searching?

[Nicholas Peyton]

I know about the volt modified STRIX, T4 BIOS however this has not yielded the results I was looking for due to incompatibility caused by the "removed" power limit on the BIOS.

I heard there is also a volt modified MSI GAMING X 1080 and a volt modified GALAXY HOF 1080 BIOS somewhere too but I cannot find them anywhere (I have been searching tirelessly for weeks).

If anyone can point in the direction of these other two BIOS's then I would be in your debt forever!

Thank you.

More in-depth:
Had the power limit been left intact or even simply 'increased' instead of completely removed on the STRIX/T4 BIOS I would be able to take advantage of the extra volts on my '1080 Classified'.

I know voltage doesn't scale well with Pascal -- but I am a 'ball hair away' from hitting 2200mhz so while this wouldn't normally help most, getting over 1.093v in my case 'will' help.

The LN2 guys say voltage doesn't scale with Pascal -- I hear them -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't scale at all..

In fact it still scales by 100mhz per 50 degrees C (as stated by one of the top 5 world champions)

I am going full water soon and expect to gain 40c - 50c. This translates to 100mhz more stability.

Its not much but it will let me get my even two-hundred number. So this little voltage boost in my case will absolutely help me get my 2200

The STRIX/T4 won't let my card draw more than 110W, my card can normally draw up to 320W and other cross-flashed BIOS's I tried power was also good!

I have all my custom loop parts picked out and ready to order. Just really want to find this BIOS before I finalise my shopping basket


Thanks,

Nick

 

[sneekypeet]

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios...=GTX+1080&interface=&memType=&memSize=&since=

You could look through those and see if they have what you want. Keep in mind they are all unverified BIOS files, so use at your own risk, as W1zzard has not hand checked those!

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios...=GTX+1080&interface=&memType=&memSize=&since=

You could look through those and see if they have what you want. Keep in mind they are all unverified BIOS files, so use at your own risk, as W1zzard has not hand checked those!

Okay thank you.

I have looked through these all carefully and selected 12 which I am going to FLASH to my card and test. Amongst these 12 I am including ones with the following text in their descriptions: a 'beta', a 'non-limited', a 'Newegg exclusive' and a 'review sample' from different manufacturers.

I will try all twelve, but I will start with the above four first.... If any allow me to go over 1.093 volts, I will report my findings here

Wish me luck -- lol.

Don't worry - I will take precautions

Nick

okay its 4am and so far I have tested:

-G1 Gaming (Beta) (185020.rom)
-GALAXY HOF (185211.rom)
-KFA2 HOF Standard Edition 'not limited' (184365.rom)
-MSI Gaming 8G 'non-x-model' Newegg Exclusive (184065.rom)
-Gigabyte Xtreme Gaming 'review sample' Updated_BIOS (184926.rom)

Fortunately I never had to use the backup BIOS switch to recover my card from any of these. They all worked.

However none of them got me over 1.093 Volts :-(

 

[OneMoar]

with gpu boost 3.0 the bios doesn't directly control the voltage thats set by some very cleaver logic in the vrm controller and GPU driver

there is no direct way to set the voltage manually on the new cards

what you can do is a shut-mod and essentially trick the gpu into rasing the power limit which gives you access to more a `little` more voltage beyond that more aggressive hardware mods are needed
search google for GTX1080 Shutmod its fairly easy todo but be warned here be dragons if you modify the cards power limit resistors and don't know what you are doing YOU WILL 100% BLOW THE VRMS UP!

PAY ATTENTION DON'T SKIM THE VIDEO

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

with gpu boost 3.0 the bios doesn't directly control the voltage thats set by some very cleaver logic in the vrm controller and GPU driver

there is no direct way to set the voltage manually on the new cards

what you can do is a shut-mod and essentially trick the gpu into rasing the power limit which gives you access to more a `little` more voltage beyond that more aggressive hardware mods are needed
search google for GTX1080 Shutmod its fairly easy todo but be warned here be dragons if you modify the cards power limit resistors and don't know what you are doing YOU WILL 100% BLOW THE VRMS UP!

PAY ATTENTION DON'T SKIM THE VIDEO

I may decide to try this on it. However I am sceptical -- no normal everyday game or any 3dmark benchmark uses anywhere near the 320W maximum power limit for my 'Classified 1080' -- also I can lock any voltage and frequency along the curve using MSI Afterburner BETA 14 (but only up to 1.093v).

If I owned a FE, I realise my card would be throttling after 180W and most games/benchmarks do indeed use more than 180W.

But my card never throttles due to power -- unless I run furmark Core Burner at insane resolution.

The card isn't hard limited until 1.2v -- so it must be a BIOS setting holding me back to 1.093v.

The only thing I can think of is to try this simultaneously with the STRIX, T4 mod and see if it allows me to draw more than 110W from the card (I would have to use a meter at the wall socket to measure full system draw) to calculate a rough estimate and also compare FPS performance.

Really wish I could understand why the STRIX, T4 gives me lower FPS, cooler temperatures and significantly less power draw without lowering the core clock -- in fact it even seems more stable at higher clocks but only draws 110W at these higher clocks and about 15% -20% LESS FPS.

 

[heky]

Really wish I could understand why the STRIX, T4 gives me lower FPS, cooler temperatures and significantly less power draw without lowering the core clock -- in fact it even seems more stable at higher clocks but only draws 110W at these higher clocks and about 15% -20% LESS FPS.

Becouse it is not reporting the right numbers on your card. You cant have same clocks with less power draw if the voltage is the same. That is why you get 20% less fps...

 

[OneMoar]

TDP is a function of voltage X frequency X chip
so if you are TDP limited you will be Voltage limited
there are no signed bios's that have the voltage higher then 1.100v chips that need that much voltage are either binned as 1070's or 1060's or just thrown out at production so they frankly don't exist

heres what you need todo
1. do the shut mod I recommend purchasing a conductive trace-pen instead of using liquid metal
2. make sure all the sliders in msi ab are set to stock
3. set the power limit slider to 50% to start with (remember its going to be off by + 30% or more
4. adjust the VF curve so it starts at -150 and is at +0.0 @ 1.0v this set the base clock down which helps get the driver to keep it in boost (honestly no idea why it does this but in my testing it does =/)

5. never ever ever EVER run fur-mark once you have done the shut its a 100% guaranteed to blow the vrm's up

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Thanks for the replies guys -- has given me some stuff to think about.

Becouse it is not reporting the right numbers on your card. You cant have same clocks with less power draw if the voltage is the same. That is why you get 20% less fps...

I know mate -- that what I thought too lol -- I will take some screenshots to try and demonstrate what I mean and explain it a little better. I am at a loss too because what you said is exactly right (at least as far as I understand it).
Moreover-- "because it is not reporting the right numbers on your card" -- I although thought this too.. but when I noticed my watt meter plugged into the wall was also showing less power draw too I was at a loss.

TDP is a function of voltage X frequency X chip
so if you are TDP limited you will be Voltage limited
there are no signed bios's that have the voltage higher then 1.100v chips that need that much voltage are either binned as 1070's or 1060's or just thrown out at production so they frankly don't exist

heres what you need todo
1. do the shut mod I recommend purchasing a conductive trace-pen instead of using liquid metal
2. make sure all the sliders in msi ab are set to stock
3. set the power limit slider to 50% to start with (remember its going to be off by + 30% or more
4. adjust the VF curve so it starts at -150 and is at +0.0 @ 1.0v this set the base clock down which helps get the driver to keep it in boost (honestly no idea why it does this but in my testing it does =/)

I think I am definitely going to have to try this soon. The only problem is -- I am not currently TDP lmited... unless I actually "am" TDP limited using the STRIX/T4 but because numbers aren't reporting correctly I am not realising it. However if I am in fact limited with 'wrong numbers reporting' I am still struggling to understand how the 'full power draw' on my watt meter at the socket is actually showing lower while on the STRIX/T4. If being on this BIOS has actually "really" put my power usage up (but not reporting it so) wouldn't my FPS and power draw on my wall meter both be higher? Or am I missing something lol?

I have also noticed testing some other BIOS's (both gigabyte ones) I seemed to be reaching this "fake power draw wall"... but I will take some screenshots while on this BIOS to try and explain what I mean a little better.

I do want to try the shut mod but my EVGA 1080 Classified circuit board is going to be different to a FE. If I can get a picture or take a picture myself and mark where I think I need to make the change maybe I can ask for help/confirmation before I carry it out? I am not an electronics expert lol.

Thanks again guys -- screenshots coming up soon.

Nick Peyton.

 

[OneMoar]

you mis understand what the the TDP limit does
TDP is not a hard limit the closer you get to the TDP limit the less voltage/frequency you have available e.g it could be reporting 90%TDP and still limiting your voltage/clock speed (gpu z will tell you whats limiting you by telling you if its VREL/VOP limited)
VREL means that driver doesn't think the gpu core will be stable at that freqency @that voltage and VOP means you are TDP/TEMP limited at your current frequency targets

remember GPU boost 3.0 is very 'intelligent`

with these chips the best you can do is try and trick it into doing what you want raising the TDP will get you anouther step or two voltage or so or it may do nothing.

if the driver/core logic decides NOPE this core isn't capable of that and you aren't gonna get it no matter how hard you try at least not without installing POT's and physically modding the voltage controler


it all depends on the workload and what task the gpu has been given

its not a absolute limit you need to raise the TDP limit and let the curve overshoot and account for 'settle in' to get your desired stable frequency
and there isn't gonna be much of a difference at 2200 vs 2150 pascal doesn't scale that great

all that being said if you do the shuntmod keep this in mind
the TPD readings will be off by 30% or more so make sure you account for that and don't do anything stupid like crank the sliders all the way up all at once without load checking your temps and voltage at step at a time

you may have simply lost the silicon lottery 1.093v @ 2150 or whatever isn't that great of a stock bin so its a total crapshoot

MONITOR YOUR VRM TEMPS seriously with the limiter disengaged its very easy to blow the vrm's up I don't care what the manufacturer says its capable of you need to keep a eye on it

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

all that being said if you do the shuntmod keep this in mind
the TPD readings will be off by 30% or more so make sure you account for that and don't do anything stupid like crank the sliders all the way up all at once without load checking your temps and voltage at step at a time

you may have simply lost the silicon lottery 1.093v @ 2150 or whatever isn't that great of a stock bin so its a total crapshoot

MONITOR YOUR VRM TEMPS seriously with the limiter disengaged its very easy to blow the vrm's up I don't care what the manufacturer says its capable of you need to keep a eye on it

The 1080 Classified is a 14 + 3 phase VRM. And yes I have temperature sensors on my Fan controller and I also have a handheld laser temp sensor.

I understand I need to be careful with VRM temps and don't worry I will monitor. - Anyway I still have a bit of research to do before I do the MOD. Firstly Classified board is different from a Founders Edition so I won't be doing anything until I've taken pictures and checked with you guys first

Also I am just in from work and its 11:30pm here so all I am going to do tonight is take some screenshots and pictures with STRIX/T4

Have I really been that unlucky with the Silicon Lottery?? I thought I was actually okay? I've seen a lot of posts with 1080 Classified owners with max clocks lower or about the same as mine?

Even the LN2 guys have only gotten to 2500 core clock on Pascal and that is at -200 temps (only about 250-300mhz faster than I am getting on air)?

 

[OneMoar]

you have a avg card so pascal just hits at a wall at about 2200
my sample is exceptional for a 1060 NOT the norm

 

[Vayra86]

Even the LN2 guys have only gotten to 2500 core clock on Pascal and that is at -200 temps (only about 250-300mhz faster than I am getting on air)?

The higher you go, the worse it all scales for you. Temps, voltage required all rise exponentially. Comparing air or water to LN2 makes no sense at all

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

The higher you go, the worse it all scales for you. Temps, voltage required all rise exponentially. Comparing air or water to LN2 makes no sense at all

True but the challenge for me is getting to an even 2200mhz from 2152mhz-2164mhz. Might not be easy -- but isn't this why we are all here? for the challenge? what fun would overclocking be without it.

Whether the pleasure I derive from my overclock is 2FPS or an even 2200 number (to say I did it)

 

[OneMoar]

indeed LN2 is a completely entirely different beast a lot of times chips that are terrible on AIR or water do Great under LN2 (high leakage) and chips that do so-so under LN2 usally make good chips for water/air cooling (tighter lower leakage chips run cooler use less voltage but and _usually_ clock-lower)

chips that are the best of both and have that optimum balence between leakage and potential frequency are what are refered to as GOLD Chips

sub-zero cooling is the relm where the laws of electricity and thermal dynamics start to bend
in the LN2 world even a extra 20Mhz is a hell of a long way after all world records are often one and lost by a couple Mhz if not less

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Okay I have taken some photos and screenshots.

The first set at the top is with my normal EVGA 1080 Classified BIOS. (1.093v & 2152 core)

The second set at the bottom is with the STRIX, T4 BIOS flashed to my card. (1.112v & 2204 core)

With the EVGA BIOS I am drawing up to 320W power (see picture of watt meter at socket)

With the STRIX, T4 BIOS I am clocked higher at a greater voltage but my power draw (see Watt meter picture) is lower. You will see FPS is also lower.

If anyone can explain the detail behind this -- this would be amazing lol -- OneMoar, after studying my screenshots/pictures do you still think the 'shut mod' is the way to go? If so I have a bit of research to do in preparing for the mod


ORIGINAL - EVGA 1080 CLASSIFIED BIOS (1.093v & 2152mhz core) -
306w power draw (or 513w full system) & higher FPS

FLASHED WITH T4/STRIX BIOS - (1.112v & 2202mhz core) -
111w power draw (or 378w full system) and lower FPS

I'd like to stress again - that without the T4 BIOS I will never be able to get over 1.093v core!!

Just need to find a way around this power problem. (if the shut mod is the answer then I will begin doing some research

Alternatively if there is any other BIOS's out there that allow Vcore over 1.093 (signed or not) I would love to try them!

 

[OneMoar]

furmark is evil stop using it it does nothing but create heat and destroy vrms never ever ever EVER USE IT ever its Dead program from a bygone era

ffs
there is no bios but signed bios the card will brick or fail to load drivers without the bios
power limit modding is your ONLY option untill we get a bypass for the bios signature checks anyway

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

furmark is evil stop using it
ffs

I know -- sorry - I only needed to use it for a BRIEF second to highlight the power problem properly.

It was the easiest way to take a non full-screen screenshot

If I got around this problem I would not use furmark again... I would test in games.

 

[OneMoar]

there is code in the bios and driver to force the card to throttle way down if it detects furmark
furmark is useless in modern gpus

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

there is code in the bios and driver to force the card to throttle way down if it detects furmark
furmark is useless in modern gpus

I thought that might be the reason so I loaded up "The Witcher 3" and with original BIOS I was getting 75 FPS and higher power draw at the wall.

With T4/STRIX BIOS in "The Witcher 3" I was only getting 60-65FPS and also lower power draw.

Honestly I wish that was actually the answer lol and my problems would be solved :-(

there is code in the bios and driver to force the card to throttle way down if it detects furmark
furmark is useless in modern gpus

How did u get to 2300 on yours? Sounds like you have a golden sample

 

[OneMoar]

How did u get to 2300 on yours? Sounds like you have a golden sample

its a 1060 and its 2250 nominal not 2300 thats the whole trick you gotta get that curve dialed in

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

A good result. I was able to get 2200 by adjusting the final voltages on my curve but it was only witcher-3 stable for a minute or two.

I wonder if the 1060's are generally a bit more stable at higher clocks than 1080's or are u either just very lucky or very skilled or both? -

 

[Vayra86]

A good result. I was able to get 2200 by adjusting the final voltages on my curve but it was only witcher-3 stable for a minute or two.

I wonder if the 1060's are generally a bit more stable at higher clocks than 1080's or are u either just very lucky or very skilled or both? -

Smaller die, lower board TDP, lower requirements, so it will probably clock a bit higher. Not to mention the fact that many cooling solutions are just 1=1 copied over to the smaller cards, sometimes leaving some bits out, but generally you get more cooling performance for a lower TDP = lower temps = more headroom.

Similarly big chips generally clock lower, although Maxwell seemed to be making an end to that in a way - 980ti clocks as well as the smaller dies.

In all honesty these days on Pascal, you can invest a crapload of time in your OC, but if its a 24/7 situation, it's not worth bothering, just for giggles of seeing a certain clock or perhaps just to achieve more clock stability. The actual fact is, GPU boost 3.0 is smarter than you, and always will be.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Smaller die, lower board TDP, lower requirements, so it will probably clock a bit higher. Not to mention the fact that many cooling solutions are just 1=1 copied over to the smaller cards, sometimes leaving some bits out, but generally you get more cooling performance for a lower TDP = lower temps = more headroom.

Similarly big chips generally clock lower, although Maxwell seemed to be making an end to that in a way - 980ti clocks as well as the smaller dies.

In all honesty these days on Pascal, you can invest a crapload of time in your OC, but if its a 24/7 situation, it's not worth bothering, just for giggles of seeing a certain clock or perhaps just to achieve more clock stability. The actual fact is, GPU boost 3.0 is smarter than you, and always will be.

Not necessarily, mate.

Boost 3.0 doesn't take into account the "difference" between a "good silicon lottery" winner and a card that simply meets minimum factory boost specs.

By "overclocking" and forcimg GPU boost to work at a +150mhz offset I gain a small performance boost proportional to my overclock.

In a 4k environment this could be as much as 3 or 4 GPS at 35-50 FPS. And that's before I've even touched memory

 

[Vayra86]

It's true you gain perhaps a few frames in perhaps a few situations.

But you've also noticed that clocks are heavily influenced by workload. Especially the games that push all buttons on the GPU will end up with the bottom end of your achievable clock. Even with the shut mod, you could see it happening in the video. In the end those are the games that you'd also 'need' the frames the most.

Net result is not what it used to be on, for example, Kepler or even Maxwell. And this trend will continue - unfortunate but true. Note that I'm talking about pushing beyond the original TDP limits - not just pushing the sliders to the right on regular BIOS and unmodded.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Net result is not what it used to be on, for example, Kepler or even Maxwell. And this trend will continue -

Which is why we should all make the most of it while we still can lol -- because in 5-10 years overclocking may become extinct.

its a 1060 and its 2250 nominal not 2300 thats the whole trick you gotta get that curve dialed in

Going to begin doing a little research tonight into how I am going to carry out the shut mod.

Do u think it might be a good idea to even take apart my old Sapphire HD 6850 and practice something similar on it first to get my head around this stuff before I take apart a £750 card?

Or just dive straight in lol?

Also the little extra voltage you mentioned I'd get will that show in Windows or will it also be "off" like the power/watts?