Laptop over heating - opinions?

[neatfeatguy]

My mother-in-law's laptop is overheating.

HP Pavilion dv7-6163cl

I pulled it apart, cleaned it out. The fan spins freely when I manually push it, there is no resistance. However, after putting it all back together and turning her back on, she still runs very hot. I don't feel any air being pushed out and it doesn't sound like the fan is spinning.

I don't have any way to test the fan to see if it truly is the culprit. Do I assume the fan has just failed and buy a new one? It seems like the cheapest option.

Anyone else have any ideas or tricks I can try out?

 

[Shou Miko]

mby HP over spec'ed it for the cooling solution if it's a 2 gen. i7 u got in there.

Why not get a laptop cooling pad to help getting some air to the laptop? I know that from my dad's old Packard Bell it ran really got almost 100c and then u put a cooler pad underneath it dropped to like 60-70c under load bcs it was over built for the cooling solution.

Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Computer-Cooling-Pads/b?ie=UTF8&node=430481031

 

[phanbuey]

does the laptop itself get hot, or is it just the temp sensors?

repasting and replacing the fan is the best way to go... you can also download a fan control software and see if you can blast the fan to 100%.

If you don't hear anything you know its ded.

 

[FYFI13]

Before opening this thread i was "... another HP laptop". And again i was right.

 

[Caring1]

You should be able to see the fan spin up from underneath, also hear it.
If it's not spinning, replace it.

 

[Mussels]

did you repaste the CPU?

as someone who's cleaned out about 6 laptops this week alone, dusting it wont do much without replacing the TIM while you're in there

 

[neatfeatguy]

mby HP over spec'ed it for the cooling solution if it's a 2 gen. i7 u got in there.

Why not get a laptop cooling pad to help getting some air to the laptop? I know that from my dad's old Packard Bell it ran really got almost 100c and then u put a cooler pad underneath it dropped to like 60-70c under load bcs it was over built for the cooling solution.

Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Computer-Cooling-Pads/b?ie=UTF8&node=430481031

I don't know if she uses a cooling pad or not - I don't recall seeing one at her place, but I'd have to ask to be certain. If she doesn't, I'll recommend her to pick one up.

does the laptop itself get hot, or is it just the temp sensors?

repasting and replacing the fan is the best way to go... you can also download a fan control software and see if you can blast the fan to 100%.

If you don't hear anything you know its ded.

The laptop gets very hot where the fan is, hot enough it actually hurts to hold your hand on it for any length of time. The rest of the laptop is fine, just that upper left corner gets very hot.
Core Temp shows the temps sit around 85-90C after the laptop sits on for about 10 minutes. The temps dance close to 100C (max temp) when doing light work.

She mentioned she's heard the fan kick in and spin really loud around the time the laptop shut off on her a couple of times, but it hasn't done it recently.
I did install speedfan. It showed 2 fans: GPU1 & GPU2
I set them both from the default 20% to 100% to see if it would make a difference, but nothing changed.

did you repaste the CPU?

as someone who's cleaned out about 6 laptops this week alone, dusting it wont do much without replacing the TIM while you're in there

I thought about that....sadly, I'm out. Used the last of mine when I had to replace the MB in my tower and I haven't picked anymore up.

I appreciate the thoughts/ideas. I'm going to see if she can pick up a new fan for starters and go from there. Maybe I'll drag my sorry butt to MicroCenter and pick up some TIM - depending on the weather conditions this weekend.

 

[Mussels]

if the fan spins but doesnt transfer heat, TIM is the issue. i've seen some truly terrible paste jobs in older laptops this week, even one that had factory metal thermal paste applied - one of the melting pad types that wasnt even centered straight, so it literally never had good cooling.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If it used to keep cool and now doesn't, it is not likely the TIM unless the bond has been broken - perhaps due to rough handling of the notebook. I am not a fan (no pun intended) of the less experienced replacing TIM as often further damage is done due to mishandling, lack of ESD precautions, failure to thoroughly clean the old TIM first, and/or applying too much new TIM. The gains, even if done correct, are typically only ~5°C and don't justify the risks. Of course, if the bond has been broken or the application was improper from the start, you have no choice. Just make sure you remove all power, keep yourself grounded to the computer's chassis, totally clean the mating surfaces of all old TIM, and apply as thin, but complete layer of new TIM as possible. Then make sure the heatsink is properly remounted.

It is sometimes hard to hear the fan spinning but you should be able to feel even the slightest air movement if you put your ear up to the exhaust vent. That said, if the fan is running at 100%, you should easily hear that.

When it gets hot, is it shutting down or throttling back? If it is still running fine when hot, the internals and vents are clean of heat trapping dust, the fans are spinning, the heatsink fan assembly is properly mounted and the TIM bond has never been broken, then a cooling pad may be the best option. I recommend one that has its own power supply instead of the most common types that get their power through the USB ports. When powering the cooling pad fans through the USB port, you are just putting an even greater demand on the notebook's already stressed power circuits.

i've seen some truly terrible paste jobs in older laptops this week

Sadly, this problem is not limited to older laptops. It seems more and more companies keep cutting back on quality assurance these days. We've seen some newer (less than 2 years old) come in with badly misaligned pads (mostly Lenovo), pads that looked like they were folded in half, and even an eMachine that had no pad at all! I can only assume it managed to keep running due to light loads, cool ambient temps, the clients use of a cooling pad, and exceptionally flat CPU and heatsink mating surfaces. The sad part is the client put up with the slow performance until after the warranty ran out.

 

[neatfeatguy]

It is sometimes hard to hear the fan spinning but you should be able to feel even the slightest air movement if you put your ear up to the exhaust vent. That said, if the fan is running at 100%, you should easily hear that.

When it gets hot, is it shutting down or throttling back? If it is still running fine when hot, the internals and vents are clean of heat trapping dust, the fans are spinning, the heatsink fan assembly is properly mounted and the TIM bond has never been broken, then a cooling pad may be the best option. I recommend one that has its own power supply instead of the most common types that get their power through the USB ports. When powering the cooling pad fans through the USB port, you are just putting an even greater demand on the notebook's already stressed power circuits.

It will eventually shut down - if you just leave it running and don't do anything with it, maybe takes about 20-25 minutes before she turns off. If you use it, usually within 10-12 minutes she turns off.

I know the wife's old (old...old...10 year old Macbook Pro) fan(s) spin real loud when she's doing demanding things on it - the fan noise is very noticeable. This HP, I hear nothing and I haven't had the fan kick in once while I've been playing with it that I can tell. I don't feel any air getting pushed out of the vent by the fan and I've never heard it kick in full speed like my mother-in-law said it has done a few times (it doesn't always do this) just before it shuts down.

As for replacing TIM, I've had enough experience to know what I'm doing. I've built plenty of computers and cleaned enough GPUs. I don't do much with laptops since I don't own one, but this isn't first first one I've pulled apart. I'd just rather not have to deal with the removing the heatsink and replacing the TIM on it unless it's absolutely necessary. Sure, it wouldn't hurt having new TIM on it, but that's just an afterthought at the moment.

 

[Bill_Bright]

As for replacing TIM, I've had enough experience to know what I'm doing. I've built plenty of computers and cleaned enough GPUs. I don't do much with laptops since I don't own one, but this isn't first first one I've pulled apart. I'd just rather not have to deal with the removing the heatsink and replacing the TIM on it unless it's absolutely necessary. Sure, it wouldn't hurt having new TIM on it, but that's just an afterthought at the moment.

If you have replaced the TIM on PC CPUs and GPUs, then you can do a notebook CPU. The hardest part with a notebook often is just gaining access.

 

[Mussels]

The gains, even if done correct, are typically only ~5°C and don't justify the risks.

i've had upto 40C in gains from new paste. laptops that had a bad factory job, plus age and dust build up can have severe issues.

you are correct in your next post that gaining access is the fun part, some laptops are easy - some are nightmares.

 

[Bill_Bright]

i've had upto 40C in gains from new paste. laptops that had a bad factory job, plus age and dust build up can have severe issues.

Yes, but then that application was not done correctly in the first place, and that was my point.

If you achieved 40°C gains (and I am not saying you didn't), then there clearly was something wrong with the previous application of TIM. Either it was applied incorrectly in the first place, or the bond between the heatsink and CPU was broken allowing insulating air inside, or the interior was caked with dust, or a combination of all.

Since I think it safe to assume the temps of this HP were acceptable when this notebook was new, that suggests the TIM was correctly applied (at least good enough) at the factory to provide adequate heat transfer.

I don't know of any technician worth his salt that goes through the effort of opening up an overheating notebook or PC and ONLY replaces the TIM. Instead, they thoroughly clean the interior, vents, fans and conduct a complete visual inspection to ensure fans spin properly, perhaps tie back or reroute some cables (at least in PCs) and more.

And yes, age and dust build up can cause severe issues. Fans slow down with age and components age and become less efficient - thus generate more heat.

Anyone who has done computer repair can tell of horror stories they encountered when opening up a computer. From inch thick layers of oily cat hair and dust, to cockroach, spider and rodent infestations!

But TIM does NOT degrade significantly over time and will easily last 10, 15 years or longer AS LONG AS the cured bond is not broken. I am a certified air traffic control communications tech. We never replaced TIM just because X amount of time passed since it was applied. And those systems control life or death situations so if needed, it would be required. Period. No questions asked.

But NOT ONE TIM maker, computer maker, CPU maker, motherboard maker, OEM or aftermarket cooler maker, GPU maker, motherboard maker says TIM needs regular or periodic replacement. Not one!

So again, if the TIM was applied correctly in the first place, and the cured bond is not broken, the ~5°C you might gain are not worth the risk from mishandling or ESD. If you need that ~5°C to keep from crossing the thermal protection thresholds, then you have a lot more wrong than just old TIM.

Even if the TIM has completely dried out, the remaining solids are still doing their job of filling the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces preventing insulating air from entering those spaces. The ONLY reason there are liquid components in TIM is to allow it to be squeezed from the tube and evenly spread across the device.

Oddly, one of the most common accidental causes for the cured bond to break is the user twisting the heatsink assembly to see if it is loose! The other accidental cause is drops and bangs. This is why I always recommend pulling coolers in PCs before shipping - especially tall aftermarket coolers.

And of course, any time you intentionally pull a heatsink, the old TIM must be thoroughly cleaned off and a proper fresh new layer must be applied. Sadly, I have seen many cases where users just add a dab of new TIM on top of old then wonder why it is not cooling properly.

Oh, open tubes or tubs of TIM don't last for years, BTW. If it starts to dry in the tube, it cannot be spread properly. Chunks of hard stuff between the CPU and heatsink would not be good.

gaining access is the fun part, some laptops are easy - some are nightmares.

I am dating myself but I am frequently reminded of Vera from the old Alice sitcom opening a box of straws (skip to ~36 seconds).

 

[Jetster]

I think every HP laptop I have worked on runs hot. You need to control your ambient temps and not stress the system

 

[Bill_Bright]

It is not just HP. The very nature of notebooks (powerful, heat generating electronics in super thin, constrained cases) ensures heat management will be a problem. Notebook makers can pack PC power into a notebook but not the cooling. This is why I firmly believe notebooks don't make good game or "desktop replacement" computers in spite of what notebook marketing weenies want us to believe. Considering a full tower case is challenged to keep the innards cool, it is no wonder a notebook case imposes an even greater challenge.

Not only to PC cases provide for many case fans, they allow for big CPU coolers too. AND they can easily be opened up for easy access into the bowels of the PC for thorough cleaning out of heat trapping dust that WILL get drawn in by the fans.

 

[Jetster]

HP heat sinks are half the weight of other brands, less copper. Plus they put a screen mesh over the intake (which you should take off) But laptops in general not good for gaming

 

[Mussels]

Yes, but then that application was not done correctly in the first place, and that was my point.

If you achieved 40°C gains (and I am not saying you didn't), then there clearly was something wrong with the previous application of TIM. Either it was applied incorrectly in the first place, or the bond between the heatsink and CPU was broken allowing insulating air inside, or the interior was caked with dust, or a combination of all.

bad stock application + age. Once they clog up with dust, the paste dries out even faster. I've mostly dealt with HP laptops in the last year and its been a common problem - that 40C drop was with my personal i7, got it cheap because of a 'loud fan and stupidly slow' amongst other complaints.

 

[neatfeatguy]

I've got a replacement fan on the way - should be here by next Friday - but it all depends on the shipping with Thanksgiving being this coming Thursday. We'll see how things go from there.

Taking the laptop apart, it's a lot easier than I thought it would be so if I have to pull it apart again to redo the TIM - it won't take too long. Plus, I like playing with hardware so I don't mind. I'd just rather not do it if it's not absolutely needed.

 

[Bill_Bright]

the paste dries out even faster.

But again, dried paste is not problem. It is the solids that do the work. This liquid component is just for easy application.

Heatsink Guide:

Thermal compound normally does not get hard, it will stay sticky for years. But depending on the solvents used in the making of the compound, it may dry over the years. This is not a reason to worry; it will still do its job when dry, and there is no reason to replace dried thermal compound.

 

[slozomby]

Yes, but then that application was not done correctly in the first place, and that was my point.

he did say it was an hp laptop.

 

[jsfitz54]

Re-paste the fan/cpu. GPU might have cooling pad which you will leave alone if it is in good shape.

HP has done many BIOS updates in the past to fix fan curves for overheating. CHECK for new BIOS.
http://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers...ment-notebook-pc-series/5082216/model/5173108

Also see Diagnostic software and Utility tools and Bios tools. ^^^

Often with HP, on boot up, laptop will stop with black screen and give a code or say fan is bad. Did one not long ago and bought a new fan on ebay.com. The fan was dead.

 

[Bill_Bright]

he did say it was an hp laptop.

lol True. But not all HPs had improperly applied TIM. And still, HP does not make the processors or the coolers so most likely an OEM pad was pre-applied by the cooler maker - so hard to blame HP for assembly woes there. After assembly QA testing (or apparent lack of) is another issue for another discussion, however.

At this point, and especially since neatfeatguy has already torn into it once, then I say go for it. Just take care to thoroughly clean out all the old TIM and apply as thin a layer of new TIM ensuring complete die coverage - while observing careful ESD prevention cautions.

 

[newtekie1]

Isn't this the vintage of HP that was recalled due to overheating caused by the under powered heatsink? Of course, HP has done a good job of wiping any evidence of the recall off the Internet,so it's hard to tell anymore...

 

[Bill_Bright]

I don't remember any for underpowered heatsinks but I don't remember lots of things these days. Or I don't remember if I forgot them!

I just remember a bunch of HP and other notebook brands and models being recalled for lousy/dangerous batteries and charger problems.

You might be able to worm your way though this maze to see if any recalls came out for that HP.

 

[neatfeatguy]

Replacement fan came in today. Cold weather here in MN so I let the fan sit for about 4 hours to acclimate to the warm temp in the house.

I pulled the laptop apart, worked the old fan off, put the new fan on and put things back together. I get everything back in aside from the plastic backplate that hides the HDDs and the battery when I noticed there were two small screws hiding the small little plastic screw holder case....I looked over every single visible screw hole and everything had a screw in it....SOB. I wonder if it was the Single Barrel Jack Daniels I was sipping on or my excitement of getting the new fan in that I missed a couple of screws.

Pulled everything apart again because I was certain the two screws were for the MB. Get it back apart and looking over the MB, all mounting screws were in. Hmmm. I look over everything again and I see I didn't screw the new fan to the screw holes/mounts for it that hold it in place on the MB/case. Problem found and fixed! Everything back together and turn it on.

I pull up core temp and start opening programs and running some videos on youtube and temps never got over 70c. Once temps hit around 70, the fan kicked in high and was working like it should. Overheating issue is fixed. I just need to make sure she runs a cooling pad on this sucker. I know it's a laptop and it'll run kind of warm, but it stays right around 55-60C during minimal use.