DENUVO and the real impact on games and gaming companies

[newconroer]

Why have it at all? Wasn't the whole reason the gaming platforms such as Steam, Origin and Uplay came into being was because they basically told companies "enough DRM! We will be your DRM"? The anti-DRM feeling also led to the huge popularity of GOG.

So what is the purpose of a publisher implementing Denuvo despite the overwhelmingly vast numbers of law abiding purchasers not wanting it? And it's only good for 3 months? That's ridiculous!

Aren't platforms like Steam, Origin and Uplay some of the worst for managing DRM in that you can't play offline mode without being online? And that it crashes and fails often, making law abiding consumers have to suffer?
Meanwhile are there any cases of Denuvo being an obstacle for any law abiding players?

The HARD TRUTH IS
people that are going to download a Pirate Version ( for gods sake what happened to those free Game demo's that enabled you to check out weather you wanted to get the game and if it was worth buying) will wait untill a working Cracked Version is Available anyway.
That has been the truth of things ever since DRM was introduced

Dude, if I could get demos on Oculus Home, I'd be set. I'm just glad every purchase so far with Touch has been worth it. Though I am sure our luck will run out eventually.

I would say that not everyone is that way though. Certain games are simply worth paying for, especially if you see the difficulty to crack it and/or the time it's been since release and yet nothing has surfaced.

Furthermore, if you pirate everything, then you can 'afford'(I would estimate) to pay for a game once and a while.

You can't leave your house unlocked thinking that only decent people are around. Don't see the big deal with Denuvo . It does not effect the customer .
Thing is lots of the games suck. The closest thing to an educated purchase are video reviews. "The scene " mention's if you like the game buy it . Mostly that never happens . The user will exhaust the single player mode,and maybe will buy the game for the multiplayer part, if that hasn't been delivered already.

If i would be the owner of a big gaming company i would definitely make sure nobody plays my game if they don't buy it. And since they got Denuvo now, it would be nice to have a free demo to try the game first.

I always figured if 'The scene' (can't believe we now word it like it's some type of conglomerate or shadow organization) really feels that way, then they should play and legitimately review games as well as pirate them.
They won't though, because telling pirates to buy if you like, is a gesture and nothing more. IF they really felt that way about 'supporting developers' they shouldn't pirate in the first place.

The whole thing is a farce and reads straight like some paraphrase from the Communist manifesto, most likely misinterpreted by college kids enjoying some metaphysical experience on Special K, spouting some nonsense about how 'information should be free, down with censorship and copyright is inherently an evil concept.'

When in reality, they're just making some dramatic guise to cover the fact they simply want free stuff.

 

[Cvrk]

Furthermore, if you pirate everything, then you can 'afford'(I would estimate) to pay for a game once and a while.

They did not make it for free, but with hard work and money. Every single game needs to be pay'd for. Except for Ubisoft's games,cuz there richer than God, and there games suck lately
The really sad part about piracy is that it destroys the small companies. I read somewhere that indie games get played 80% pirated. You know your never gonna hear from that company ever again if they only sell 20% ...considering 20% out of what, like 20k-30k copies ?

PS: UBISOFT IS ADDING DENUVO TO PREVIOUSLY UNPROTECTED GAMES. it's a copy paste, sorry for the caps

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4wu2l7/denuvo_v3_has_been_cracked_by_cpy_actually/

 

[bug]

I see a lot of herd mentality in here. It's as if many of you want to be fed DRM again. It's completely unnecessary. If you don't treat your customer base like criminals, then many more will gladly pay you for your game.

That's how these things work: they get dumped on so many unsuspecting, clueless individuals, that the few that try to reason about it are relegated to minority.

You can't leave your house unlocked thinking that only decent people are around. Don't see the big deal with Denuvo . It does not effect the customer .

You couldn't be more wrong. A game is not a house. The producer says it's a house, cause it earn them millions. But for the end user it's barely worth the $60. From the user's point of view, there's zero reason to allow root access to one's computer in order to be able to play a game.

 

[RejZoR]

Remember the dreded problematic StarForce and Tages protected games? I never bought any game with that protection out of principle. Through history I've had nothing but problems because of stupid protections. During Win9x to WinXP transition most games bitched about missing CD even though you had original game. Do you want to know how many pirates had issues back then? None, because pirated copies just worked since they weren't relying on CD being in the drive. What does that create by itself? It shows that pirated copies are actually a better deal. And some even bought originals and then used crack so that devs were supported and they could play the games fine. I rejected that. If they can't make games work well and problem free, then they don't deserve my money.

Ubisoft adding more DRM garbage to their games is not really suprising. They are greedy assholes who deserve to be boycotted. So much no one would even pirate their crap. I only bought their old games and games on GOG without DRM. I refuse to buy or play any Ubisoft games since 2010 when they introduced their always-on DRM garbage. It's 6 years later now and I don't miss any of their stupid games. What shocks me more is why people still buy their cookie cutter designed stupid games. And in return they treat you as criminal by default. Fuck you Ubisoft, you don't deserve my money. I rather spend it on another Witcher game even if I'll never play it, just because the company behind it is devoted and honest.

 

[Cvrk]

And some even bought originals and then used crack so that devs were supported and they could play the games fine.

I did this

Far Cry 4 had excellent fun multiplayer. Always envied those youtubers having fun in coop. Never got that game....

 

[dorsetknob]

Back then people did buy the Game's but after a while the Cd stopped being reconised by the CD drive ( CRAP CHEAP DISKS).
The only way you could use and play your Original non pirate legal Purchased Game was to find the (and use) No CD Crack.
That in the eyes of the company and their trade protection mafia made you a pirate (WTF)

 

[hat]

DRM is an asshole. I used to make images of game discs (remember doing this with BF2 and 2142) so I could mount them in a virtual drive, just so I could play without the disc. One reason I did this was because my 2142 disc wasn't working too well. Why should I have to do that?

 

[Flogger23m]

I already am. I'm playing mostly indie games that don't come with as much content, but are actually fun to play instead (off the top of my head: Path of Exile, Spaz, Jets'n Guns, Grim Dawn, Pillars of Eternity). I don't mind paying $60 for something like the Witcher series either. But $60 for a rehashed FIFA, Battlefield and whatnot? Fuggidaboutit. Those aren't even built from the ground up each year to worth the asking price.

So you have different tastes. You can always not buy what you're not interested in. For example, you'd have to pay me to play PoE. I wouldn't pay a cent for it, but I don't see anything wrong with them charging full price. I've got hundreds of hours in BF4, so even the Premium pass was worth it. For ~$100 I got plenty of hours worth of entertainment. Sometimes I pissed me off (bugs) but it certainly was worth the asking price. If the game is rather sub par I won't buy it myself. I skipped BF Hardline for that reason and almost skipped BF1. Will return to BF4 for the most part until that is dead and hopefully RS2 Vietnam will replace it for me.

 

[bug]

So you have different tastes. You can always not buy what you're not interested in. For example, you'd have to pay me to play PoE. I wouldn't pay a cent for it, but I don't see anything wrong with them charging full price. I've got hundreds of hours in BF4, so even the Premium pass was worth it. For ~$100 I got plenty of hours worth of entertainment. Sometimes I pissed me off (bugs) but it certainly was worth the asking price. If the game is rather sub par I won't buy it myself. I skipped BF Hardline for that reason and almost skipped BF1. Will return to BF4 for the most part until that is dead and hopefully RS2 Vietnam will replace it for me.

I hope when said PoE, you meant Pillars of Eternity.
Cause Path of Exile is actually available for free. You'll end up paying for extra stash space if you get serious about the game, but the client and all content are free.

Still, this is not about taste. You said that cheaper games would somehow be inferior. I said there are currently cheaper games that are not inferior in any way.

 

[Ithanul]

Yeah, no demo is one of the reason I never pay full price for any PC game, and tend to wait several months on videos of people playing the game. Barely ever pay over 20 bucks for a game. Sometimes even waiting till the game falls down to 10 bucks or less since it is a digital copy that I can not resell later on.

Console games on the other hand. At least I can rent a game from RedBox, play it for a whole day on the console, and if I like the game enough buy it. Because of this I actually shell out 60 bucks for launch games on the few consoles I have. Then once I am done, I trade the game in for cash, store credit, or resell the game to someone else.

 

[Prima.Vera]

DRM is an asshole. I used to make images of game discs (remember doing this with BF2 and 2142) so I could mount them in a virtual drive, just so I could play without the disc. One reason I did this was because my 2142 disc wasn't working too well. Why should I have to do that?

I understand that 100%. I'm also a big fan of hard copies, love to own the original cases, with manuals and all. But really hated that you always need the DVD in to play it...

 

[Flogger23m]

I hope when said PoE, you meant Pillars of Eternity.
Cause Path of Exile is actually available for free. You'll end up paying for extra stash space if you get serious about the game, but the client and all content are free.

Still, this is not about taste. You said that cheaper games would somehow be inferior. I said there are currently cheaper games that are not inferior in any way.

Free or not you'd have to pay me to play that, and just about half of what you listed. Fact is games are more expensive to make. You can't cut the asking price without seeing quality/content decreases and stagnation. Your typical game costs millions to make and it isn't becoming any cheaper. If you like freemium games or other games then great, but for the rest of us it wouldn't be good. If you think the industry looks bad as it is, have the price of games drop and you'll truly see how repetitive it can get. New IPs/genres would slow down even further, and we'd see a lot more phone and freemium titles.

As it is we can't even get decent vehicle shooters, aside from BF, which is MP only and only part vehicle based. The only decent looking vehicle shooter than isn't a copy/paste MMO on the horizon is Ace Combat 7; and that series almost died as an MMO itself just a few years back. 3rd person shooters have not attempted to improve the lack luster shooting mechanics for well over a decade. Cut the potential profits by ~25% and the chances of seeing either of those changing.

 

[Ahhzz]

...

PS: UBISOFT IS ADDING DENUVO TO PREVIOUSLY UNPROTECTED GAMES. it's a copy paste, sorry for the caps

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4wu2l7/denuvo_v3_has_been_cracked_by_cpy_actually/

Reason 937 not to buy another ubi game.

 

[bug]

Free or not you'd have to pay me to play that, and just about half of what you listed. Fact is games are more expensive to make. You can't cut the asking price without seeing quality/content decreases and stagnation. Your typical game costs millions to make and it isn't becoming any cheaper. If you like freemium games or other games then great, but for the rest of us it wouldn't be good. If you think the industry looks bad as it is, have the price of games drop and you'll truly see how repetitive it can get. New IPs/genres would slow down even further, and we'd see a lot more phone and freemium titles.

As it is we can't even get decent vehicle shooters, aside from BF, which is MP only and only part vehicle based. The only decent looking vehicle shooter than isn't a copy/paste MMO on the horizon is Ace Combat 7; and that series almost died as an MMO itself just a few years back. 3rd person shooters have not attempted to improve the lack luster shooting mechanics for well over a decade. Cut the potential profits by ~25% and the chances of seeing either of those changing.

Are you brain-dead or something? I just gave you a list of games that are both cheaper and on par with AAA titles.
Games cost millions to make because the likes of EA or Ubisoft need to pay for their huge army of people doing anything but game development. Indie studios can build titles for less. They can't crank out a rehash every year, but guess what? They actually build titles that are fun to play.

 

[Flogger23m]

Are you brain-dead or something? I just gave you a list of games that are both cheaper and on par with AAA titles.
Games cost millions to make because the likes of EA or Ubisoft need to pay for their huge army of people doing anything but game development. Indie studios can build titles for less. They can't crank out a rehash every year, but guess what? They actually build titles that are fun to play.

You listed a few games without listing their costs or development times. As evidenced with the Witcher 3, if a small indie dev is successful the price of sequels shoots up a lot. They spent a mere $81 million, which isn't a lot of money. Even with four million sales they only made ~$61 million in profits. Which means they had still lost money 6 weeks post release. Now they're well over 10 million sales and have make some nice profit no doubt, but how many of those were full price? How many were sold for $30 USD at launch because they were bought in a lower income country? And that is for your typical fantasy game. One of the mainstays of the game industry, and a theme that has been played out far too many times. Imagine if they had done something else, a smaller niche genre. They would not have been able to come close quality wise because they wouldn't get even close to 10 million sales. You want them to cut the profit margins by 15-20%? Good luck at getting much more than a typical fantasy RPG or copy paste Metal Gear mechanic shooter.

Just think about the cost of hiring 50-60 full time developers for four years and the cost of the studio alone. That is before traveling, research, licensing, traveling to record unique sounds, contracting out and the like. Cut the potential profits and you will have to take less risks. We'll end up with a bunch of fantasy games and person based shooter/adventure games. It is where we are currently; but the chances of breaking this cycle would be even worse if developers knew they'd make less profits. Your hatred big studios doesn't make games cost less to make these days. Games are getting cheaper while getting more expensive. You simply can't ask for more while paying less. Even in the early 2000s, 1 million sales was considered amazing and a mark of a successful game. Now days, unless you're making a low budget phone like game, it won't even come close to covering costs.

I hardly pay $60 for a game (can't remember the last time I did?) but anyone with half a clue about game development knows they're going up in costs. And it has nothing to do with *insert companies you hate* inflating costs.

 

[rtwjunkie]

You listed a few games without listing their costs or development times. As evidenced with the Witcher 3, if a small indie dev is successful the price of sequels shoots up a lot. They spent a mere $81 million, which isn't a lot of money. Even with four million sales they only made ~$61 million in profits. Which means they had still lost money 6 weeks post release. Now they're well over 10 million sales and have make some nice profit no doubt, but how many of those were full price? How many were sold for $30 USD at launch because they were bought in a lower income country? And that is for your typical fantasy game. One of the mainstays of the game industry, and a theme that has been played out far too many times. Imagine if they had done something else, a smaller niche genre. They would not have been able to come close quality wise because they wouldn't get even close to 10 million sales. You want them to cut the profit margins by 15-20%? Good luck at getting much more than a typical fantasy RPG or copy paste Metal Gear mechanic shooter.

Just think about the cost of hiring 50-60 full time developers for four years and the cost of the studio alone. That is before traveling, research, licensing, traveling to record unique sounds, contracting out and the like. Cut the potential profits and you will have to take less risks. We'll end up with a bunch of fantasy games and person based shooter/adventure games. It is where we are currently; but the chances of breaking this cycle would be even worse if developers knew they'd make less profits. Your hatred big studios doesn't make games cost less to make these days. Games are getting cheaper while getting more expensive. You simply can't ask for more while paying less. Even in the early 2000s, 1 million sales was considered amazing and a mark of a successful game. Now days, unless you're making a low budget phone like game, it won't even come close to covering costs.

I hardly pay $60 for a game (can't remember the last time I did?) but anyone with half a clue about game development knows they're going up in costs. And it has nothing to do with *insert companies you hate* inflating costs.

Actually, since you used CDPR as an example, even if they sell a smaller niche game, which cyberpunk 2077 is likely to be, they don't have the "hidden" expense most studios do. They self-publish, and thus, profiting is much easier to come by. All that money the publisher would have carved off the top of each sale is theirs. So their sales CAN be smaller in number on titles, and still make as much profit as "Major" studios.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Cyberpunk 2077 is not "smaller" nor "niche." They said the world and game are going to be bigger than Witcher 3 (which is among one of the largest single player worlds games ever) and Cyberpunk is one of the best genres out there because it's the not-so distant future (easy to make assets for) and they can roll pretty much any other genre into it (e.g. Shadowrun infuses fantasy elements).

Eliminating the middle men though is always a huge benefit...and liability...to any production.


As for DRM...I generally don't care unless it interferes. I can think of three titles where it did: Act of War: High Treason (Valve refunded money because it was unplayable and Atari couldn't care less), Beyond Good & Evil (DRM doesn't support XP x64), and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (DRM doesn't support XP x64).

 

[bug]

... I've got hundreds of hours in BF4, so even the Premium pass was worth it. For ~$100 I got plenty of hours worth of entertainment....

I hardly pay $60 for a game (can't remember the last time I did?)...

Roger that.

...but anyone with half a clue about game development knows they're going up in costs. And it has nothing to do with *insert companies you hate* inflating costs.

Instinctively, yes, if only for inflation, the prices should go up. However, when you the same thing over and over and over again, costs should go down.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Cyberpunk 2077 is not "smaller" nor "niche." They said the world and game are going to be bigger than Witcher 3 (which is among one of the largest single player worlds games ever)

Well...I never said anything about the size of the world in the game. I am well aware how big it is supposed to be.

I'm talking about the genre. I'm willing to bet you a AAA game that one year after release, sales are noticeably less than TW3 had at a year. Yep, everyone here mark this date that I pledged that. Your reciprocity is appreciated, but not mandatory if you aren't very confident.

 

[jboydgolfer]

but that is the same ubisoft that said that using uplay "significantly decreased the piracy of their titles"

Which tells me ubisoft has no clue what they are doing. Which isnt all that surprising, but still. In other words, apparently the newest doom patch removes denuvo.

That's just because you be subtitles or crap on average

No one even wants their titles if they're free

 

[bug]

That's just because you be subtitles or crap on average

No one even wants their titles if they're free

No kidding. I got their HAWX for "free" and never played it because of DRM.

("Free" as in "it came with the video card")

 

[TheGuruStud]

Heh, CPY has been taking care of business as of late.

Rise of The Tomb Raider and Mankind Divided (although not optimized too well still) have both been cracked and both have benchmarks, so you can compare them side by side. My understanding is that there is essentially zero performance difference.

If you were to do a test, I'd use Tomb Raider. On Mankind Divided I still get the very rare stutter and some graphical anomalies in Prague, and yes, I have a legit version on Steam with the latest patch. Still a good game and mostly patched up by now. Graphics can range from fairly good to below average, so it doesn't run as well as I had hoped. But decent enough for my 4670K + GTX 1070.

I played through DE: MD recently and had no issues. Basically maxed at 1440P and maintained 60 fps 99.9% of the time. GPU usage didn't even hit 90% with vsync on. The patches must have fixed it. VRAM goes through the roof, so if you're trying to play with too high of settings, it won't work (cuz 970 especially with the ram retardation).

You sure they are cracked? It still has denuvo inside - steam emulation.

Yes

 

[R-T-B]

You can't leave your house unlocked thinking that only decent people are around. Don't see the big deal with Denuvo . It does not effect the customer .

Until the servers go down or the DRM is no longer supported.

Has anyone here dealt with a Securom game? How about starforce? Maybe safedisc? Softwrap? How many of these work today?

I'll give you a clue... none.

There's a life lesson in that era.

 

[Ahhzz]

Until the servers go down or the DRM is no longer supported.

Has anyone here dealt with a Securom game? How about starforce? Maybe safedisc? Softwrap? How many of these work today?

I'll give you a clue... none.

There's a life lesson in that era.

My main recall is Spore. Only allowed you to install it so many times... Fuck them.

 

[TheGuruStud]

My main recall is Spore. Only allowed you to install it so many times... Fuck them.

I bypassed starforce with an external dvd drive LOL. That ver on Splinter Cell just totally ignored externals.