m.2 nvme SSD worth it ??

[Carsomyr]

Here's my usage:

Mostly Gaming (at a VERY high end level, high res, mods, high refresh rate ...)
Lots of web browsing and multi-tabs browsing (I'm talking 18+ tabs on a regular basis)
Lots of files moving around (a little bit of conversion or extractions... nothing crazy)
Overclocked system under water.

I'm hesitating between buying 1 or 2 m.2 nvme SSDs due to the fact that I'm currently building a new 4000$ build. My motherboard supports 2x m.2 ports for full x4 pci-e bandwith, I'm thinking "I should buy some"

either 2 seperate ones
(1 for windows boot) and the other one for games and docs (something like 512gb) (120-256gb for the boot one)

or raid 0 (go crazy) 2x 256gb m.2 or 2x 512gb m.2 in RAID 0

or 1x 120gb m.2 nvme ssd for windows install
and big 1tb (or 2tb) NORMAL ssd (not m.2)

hard to decide... I get this feeling that if I save 300-400$ on not getting the m.2 drives, I could somehow use the money elswhere (maybe get a new pc chair)

 

[hat]

Hm... if you're already spending that kind of money, I think if you don't, you'll have that itch... wishing you did, just cause.

I don't know if option 2 is possible. I know you can put regular SSD in RAID (but you lose something... TRIM? or was that resolved with newer drives or controllers?) but I'm not sure about PCI-E SSDs.

If I had the opportunity to build a system of that caliber, I would go with option 2, or perhaps a third option: 1 small NVME drive for Windows (and programs), plus 4xN TB RAID10 HDD, where N is an appropriate size. Games go here, as well as mass storage. You get the performance of RAID 0 with the reliability of RAID 1.

Others may say different, and I guess it can depend on the game, but back when I had an overclocked i7 920 system with triple channel DDR3 1600, I took the opportunity I had at the time to snag a 512GB SSD, exclusively for games. I regretted the decision and wish I would have stuck with my 500GB WD Caviar Black. If the computer fairy had come and replaced my spinner with an SSD, I'd never have noticed it. In other words, in my experience, buying an SSD for games was not worth it. I'd do it all over again every time for the system drive, though.

 

[nomdeplume]

NVMe can for sure be put in RAID. A number of the plug in cards with multiple drives on them are set up for workstation use in RAID. Using top tier stuff it shouldn't be too hard to find a RAID controller or prebuilt option with software that will work. Stability and price are going rise accordingly the further into industrial usage solution you go.

My suggestion is to buy a 960 Pro/Evo and mount it on the mb. If you find the need to use more an x4 PCIe adapter using your 960 and one or more matching drives is the natural upgrade path.

 

[Easy Rhino]

uh, if you are budgeting $4000 and you are not cash poor then go balls out with it. but if you are one of those poor schmucks that doesn't actually have $4000 to spend on a computer but is going to anyway then please spend your money elsewhere.

 

[xvi]

I put two 950 Pros in my RAID and I'm actually not entirely sure about whether or not they run TRIM, but they have been getting pretty slow recently. I've been considering replacing both of them with just one larger 960 Pro/Evo just so I know TRIM is running and so Samsung Magician can actually recognize them. I wouldn't really worry too much about raiding NVMe drives. It was fun to benchmark when I first got them in, but there's really not much of any benefit other than making some absurdly big numbers synthetically.

Not being able to update firmware on them and check health, for me, hasn't been worth the RAID array.

Edit: Might just swap them one by one into a second computer to get firmware up to date. Really not worth the hassle though.

 

[Tom.699]

I'm at loss here, you spending $4000 for system and you thinking about 128/256GB SSD?

I would buy Samsung 960 Pro/Evo at least 512GB, with that budget I would go for 1TB. Two of them if you need that much space.
You buy it now and you will have it for next few years.
Also I like that m.2 drive goes on motherboard, no mess with cables and mounting drive in a case.

No RAID for me, I don't see a point. Another thing that may get corrupted and you will not feel a difference in speed unless you are moving huge files all the time but even then you would need to move them from on RAID to another.

Mechanical drives are thing of the past for me, unless you need a lot of storage I would say forget about it.
I believe is about 3-4 years now since I had mechanical drive in my computer. Only once I use now are 2TB or bigger 2.5" USB drives for backup.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Is ~530 MB/s read speed fast if enough? If no, get NVMe. If yes, get SATA 6 Gb/s.

I would go NVMe before RAID0.

I have almost all of my games on a 6 TB 7200 RPM HDD.

NVMe has a huge price premium over SATA; M.2 has a price premium over SATA because of the thicker PCB.

 

[xvi]

Mechanical drives are thing of the past for me, unless you need a lot of storage I would say forget about it.

I've got 512GB between the SSDs and 2TB across two drives. Games I know I'll play often go on the SSD and games I play rarely go on the HDDs. Haven't paid attention to space and haven't had any issues. Would like to replace the mechanicals with SSDs, but I don't think prices are down far enough yet.

HDDs still have their uses, I think, but they're definitely on the way out.

Edit: ..and on a $4k build, I think "value" SSDs for storage won't be out of the question. I don't think OP can go all out on that budget and still have to prioritize areas of the build, but there should still be room for that.

 

[Keullo-e]

Windows 10 seems to boot few seconds faster than my old SSD (HyperX Savage 120GB), nothing breathtaking, but as it came as a bundle with my motherboard, I'm happy with it. Intel 600p 256GB's my M.2 drive.

 

[Carsomyr]

Yeah even if the budget is high I didn't want to waste it on something I wouldn't REALLY benefit from. I'm thinking of investing maximum 600$ in storage.

One thing I did in the past that I loved was putting the windows install on a separate drive... Less hassle when you need to clean install Windows. Some games I still have to reinstall bit my documents don't get deleted in the process.

So it comes down to this:

I'm either gonna get a small m.2 drive with another M.2 512gb. 1tb is close to 1k$ in Canada. Bit too expensive for my liking.

Or

I'm gonna get a small ssd for Windows and the same m.2 512gb for games.

My reasoning is I've read all over the Web that m.2 drives seem to perform the same as normal SSDs when they're small sized (120gb for instance)

So apparently a 120-256gb m.2 ssd performs close to the same as 120gb-256gb normal ssd.

If that is true I'll save on the windows ssd and use the money for a bigger gaming m.2 drive

 

[n-ster]

I've invested in SSD only storage and I'm really happy with it, though I do have an HDD dock for backups off-site.

My suggetsion: 960 EVO 500GB (only 115$ more for 250GB of NVME, all important apps and games can fit this way as well) + some 500GB-1TB SATA SSD depending on your needs. You do lose the insane 1K+ MB/s transfers between your hard drives but there's no reason that'll be useful for you.

Where are you located in Canada? Anywhere near me? FYI for the others, assuming CAD, a 4K$ CAD build is like a 2.8K$ USD build basically

EDITED after looking at prices

Does your 4K$ budget need to include stuff like monitor, keyboard, headphones etc? I'd certainly suggest investing properly in accessories if you can. A comfortable chair (gaming or office) is super important to me, decent speakers and/or headphones makes the experience that much better, a great monitor can change everything etc.

 

[RejZoR]

I've had a M.2 AHCI and now I'm on SATA SSD because of larger capacity. Can't tell a difference. Unless your specific use requires massive througput, there won't be any real difference between SATA SSD or M.2. Or RAID0 M.2 setup because they all already have stupendously low access times.

My advice, take 1x 2TB Samsung 850 Pro and you're done. Stay away from RAID if you want easiest, most problem free and reliable setup. You'll have everything on super fast SSD storage with super fast access. If there were 2TB M.2's I'd say consider it for the sake of airflow and you get rid of "bulky" stand alone drives. But since there aren't any yet (or if they appeared recently, they cost a fortune), that massive 2TB 850 Pro is superb option. Talking from experience and I can't praise the 850 Pro enough. If you want to save a bit, go with the Evo, but frankly, for a $4000 build, go with the Pro.

 

[Carsomyr]

What about installing windows on a separate drive?
Also is rapid mode worth it on a Samsung ssd?

 

[RejZoR]

I have a single 2TB drive divided into 2 partitions. One reserved for OS and some apps and second one for games, documents and everything else. I've relocated my documents to second partition for the same reason. Just for more convenient instant re-installation of OS without losing any files.

As for Rapid Mode, I don't know, 850 Pro is already fast enough so I'm using it just because I can basically. I've seen a "benefit" once during repeated extraction of archive (VM drive backup) where extraction speed exceeded 1GB/s even though drive physically can't do such speeds. So, it helps in some cases.

 

[Carsomyr]

I have a single 2TB drive divided into 2 partitions. One reserved for OS and some apps and second one for games, documents and everything else. I've relocated my documents to second partition for the same reason. Just for more convenient instant re-installation of OS without losing any files.

As for Rapid Mode, I don't know, 850 Pro is already fast enough so I'm using it just because I can basically. I've seen a "benefit" once during repeated extraction of archive (VM drive backup) where extraction speed exceeded 1GB/s even though drive physically can't do such speeds. So, it helps in some cases.

Separate partitions?

That's something I'm not familiar with. I though a Windows re-install or install meant the drive gets wiped completely?

So, does this mean I could partition an nvme M.2 drive? If so, then I wouldn't need a second drive

 

[EarthDog]

Not if you partition it and don't obliterate the partition.

 

[nomdeplume]

Physical disc location makes no difference. Before installing Windows lets you create partitions and choose where it will install. The installer is smart enough to preserve existing partitions unless you tell it otherwise.

 

[eidairaman1]

I'm at loss here, you spending $4000 for system and you thinking about 128/256GB SSD?

I would buy Samsung 960 Pro/Evo at least 512GB, with that budget I would go for 1TB. Two of them if you need that much space.
You buy it now and you will have it for next few years.
Also I like that m.2 drive goes on motherboard, no mess with cables and mounting drive in a case.

No RAID for me, I don't see a point. Another thing that may get corrupted and you will not feel a difference in speed unless you are moving huge files all the time but even then you would need to move them from on RAID to another.

Mechanical drives are thing of the past for me, unless you need a lot of storage I would say forget about it.
I believe is about 3-4 years now since I had mechanical drive in my computer. Only once I use now are 2TB or bigger 2.5" USB drives for backup.

That's all an OS needs is a 256GB model.

 

[Carsomyr]

I must say in the past I've been dealing with issues that arised due to problems linked with RAID config and partitions... but it's way back then...

It's a good thing to know (that I can safely partition and SSD)
Because I'm thinking about getting a bigger SSD or possibly m.2 drive. I'm considering a m.2 nvme samsung 960 EVO (not PRO), would cost me about 650$ CAD (canadian dollars) for 1tb (about 420$ usd in comparison) or I could get a 1tb Sata 3 SSD (about 300$ CAD, 230$ usd just about)

I've also considered 512gb size instead of 1tb, but I'm scared I end up needing more space. Just 4 big titles like skyrim with mods, witcher 3 and others plus a few basic programs could easily eat a good portion of that 512gb (well maybe not that intensively... but you get the idea)

Also very importantly, I've read that bigger size SSDs (or m.2 SSD) are faster than smaller SSD drives.

 

[bonehead123]

Well, contrary to what others have said, I built a new shylake rig back in Aug 2016 with 2x 256mb nvme 950pro's (1 for OS & apps, the other as clone), and I can tell you without doubt it is by far the fastest system I have built since the 90's.... I do have 2x 3TB SATA HDD externals for back-ups of all documents, images and other files too though.

The whole system is just smoother, apps & large files (huge images & spreadsheets) open way quicker, and having multiple apps (10-15) open at the same time produces ZERO lag...

I can't comment on gaming performance cause I don't do that on my machine

But if I had had 4k to spend on it, I most definitely would have put some of those 1TB m.2's in there, just because I could have

 

[Carsomyr]

Your opinion? 512gb enough for a gaming dedicated drive? or should I go 1tb?

I know this depends on how many games and content I intend to put in there. But if it were you, what would you do?

 

[n-ster]

I really think the NVMe boot drive + SATA SSD for storage works best for these high-end systems. 500GB 960 EVO @ 330$ CAD for Windows + apps + some games if you want, a 500GB or 1TB SATA SSD for the rest. I tend to have a decent amount of apps and a few non-steam games, that I install on my main drive, and I just leave steam and other stuff on my other SSDs.

Difference of speed between a 512GB and a 1TB SSD is negligible and sometimes slower on the bigger one. usually the difference lies between 128, 256 and 512GB ones. FYI, for more consistent performance, you might want to consider a 15-25% over-provisioning on your drive (when you partitioning your drive for the first time, leave that much as unformat). See below for an example (source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10833/the-samsung-960-evo-1tb-review/2):

Spoiler: 960 EVO no over-provisioning vs with OP for write speeds

Spoiler: 960 EVO no over-provisioning vs with OP for read speeds

What is your build going to be? I'd suggest something along the lines of:

Spoiler: Z270 build

(with a 500GB SATA)
PCPartPicker part list

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($467.98)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($85.98)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS IX HERO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($284.99)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($244.99)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($174.99)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($329.00)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Superclocked Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card ($803.98)
Case: be quiet! DARK BASE PRO 900 | ORANGE ATX Full Tower Case ($319.98)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.99)
Total: $2851.88

Spoiler: X99 build

(with a 1TB SATA)
PCPartPicker part list

CPU: Intel Core i7-6800K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($547.95)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($85.98)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($323.50)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($244.99)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($329.00)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($399.98)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Superclocked Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card ($803.98)
Case: be quiet! DARK BASE PRO 900 | ORANGE ATX Full Tower Case ($319.98)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.99)
Total: $3195.35

You can definitively change things around, notably a 6850K for PCI-e lanes on the X99 build, a better value SATA SSDs, or perhaps the non-pro version of the case as examples.

 

[Carsomyr]

HUGE thanks n-ster!

I'll have to figure out "how to" leave some Over-provisioning as the concept is new to me even if simple... I'll read that anandtech post right away.

Since my CAD$ budget is 4000$ but can go up to say 5000$ CAD I'm flexible. As of now though, I've already spent 3800$ for these (prices are TAXES in and Shipping incldued):

• monitor 144hz g-sync = 700$
  
• Asus Maximus Hero z270 + asus gtx 1080 strix + i7 7700k = 1700$
  
• corsair k70 rgb lux = 200$
  
• gskills mx780 laser mouse = 78$
  
• 16gb avexir green tesla ram 3000mhz = 240$ (I know... overspent for these, but they look really sexy)
• power supply evga actually, it's a 850w evga g3 = 189$

I still need to buy:

• the storage (what we're talking about here)
• PC Case (thermaltake core p5 tempered glass is a strong temptation right now
  
• Custom Water cooling Solution
• PC Chair (very comfy and ergonomic for long sessions)
• Accessories, stuff like lights, fans for the radiator, thermal paste, tube cutter, Fan controller hub (I'd like something sexy that has a screen like 5-7 inch that I can display)

And... I'm trying to fit all this within originally 4k$ CAD but now more realistically 5k$. If I go anywhere near 6k$, my wife is going to litterally kill me. Then I will be dead, and I won't even get to enjoy my new PC lol

Oh and when you mention Over-Provisionning. Is that the equivalent of the "rapid mode" from samsung... Could I achieve the same result through using something like "rapid mode" ??

 

[n-ster]

Haha, I really wish you came to TPU before starting that build! Definitively overdid some of the components there lol, but it'll be a sick rig! If you are near Montreal, you're welcome to come try my DxRacer chair (just to get a feel of how gaming chairs typically are) and grab a beer

• Storage: You can always buy only part of the storage right now, get the 960 EVO 500GB, and get your SATA SSD later when there is a good deal?
• PC Case: Definitively super subjective thing. I'm a huge fan of the modular design of the Dark Base series from Be Quiet!, and their cases are REALLY good for noise/performance.
  Spoiler: video of the case
• Custom Water Cooling: It's extremely expensive for anything that is decent here. It does add a wow-factor for sure and is a fun project though. You dead set on doing that now? Also, noise-wise air-cooling still beats this for moderate OCs (even decent OCs like 4.8Ghz work well), especially for anything but the most depending games.
• Chair: Comfort-wise, have you considered a used super high-end office chair instead? (Steelcase Leap or Herman Miller Aeron are pretty popular) Again, way less wow-factor but comfort and quality /$ is there
• Radiator fans: I know the Be Quiet! SilentWings 3 140mm ones are pretty good, dunno about the others much. Is your focus noise/performance?
• Fan Controller: Unfortunately, you'll probably be controlling you fans by PWM, which means you need to let the motherboard handle that. Those 5.25" bay fan controllers only come in voltage control flavor. If you have the right case and fans, your ASUS mobo will do great with controlling them anyways. The Dark Base Pro 900 does have an integrate PWM fan hub that's pretty cool

 

[Carsomyr]

Yes I do live nearby Montreal. Like 45 minutes away. Wait... Do you by chance speak French. Because that would make things a lot easier lol.

About overspending. Well yeah on the ram. But for the rest... Psu I could have taken the 750w model, but wanted some headroom for future expansions. Ram definitely overspent. Motherboard. Overspent by 100$ but wanted something that supported high speed ddr4 in case I sli in the future. That board does 4133mhz ram. Gpu could have saved 30$... I love asus though. Monitor, went beyond but the monitor is a very important piece. I've got myself a sweet one. And keyboard, well I've had cheap keyboard which I've hated everytime so here goes that.

Custom water loop. Absolutely not necessary indeed considering how advanced air cooling is now... Or aio water cooling. I'm definitely doing it for the wow factor and to learn how to do it. It looks sick. Especially in that case, with tempered glass. Very sexy indeed.

This build I'll use long term too. I won't have to re buy a lot of those parts making my future upgrades easier and cheaper